Talk:African Immigration to the United States
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The article's sources all check out. Can anyone else confirm this? --Yellowfiver 02:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Kofi Annan is not a citizen of the U.S.24.185.49.151 22:21, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] watch
I guess I should watch this page. African Immigrants specifically refers to people from the African continent who come to the United States and their children. Not black Mexicans, Not black carribbeans, not black people from France, not anyone who is of African i.e. black descent! If you want, you can make your own article about Carribbean Immigrants, but that is not what I'm writing about. Carribbean Immigrants have similar stats, but should be categorized differently.--Blambloom 00:33, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Barack Obama
Should Barak Obama's photo be a part of this category? While his father was an African Immigrant, he is a native US citizen. For this reason - I think that the picture should be removedSketer1 02:20, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
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- I love, Obama, but he's a straight-up American, otherwise he could not run for office anyway...he's also half-white.. it's too complex to use him as the example ... futurebird 03:55, 14 February 2007 (UTC
- welllll, the stats I use for Harvard and Berkeley are comprised of both African Immigrants and their children. That's what makes the group so interesting. The 2nd generation, American born, American citizen, American assimilated children do just as well as their parents (albeit, highly educated parents) do. There really only aren't any stats for 3rd generation African Immigrants.
I think Barack Obama qualifies, his mother is almost a non-entity and his father is a Harvard graduate. i.e., he follows the exact same trend as regular African Immigrants and their children, the only difference is, his mother is not African. Emeka Okafor, Joseph Addai, Hakeem Olajuwon (and his children) are all citizens, the 2 former were born in the states. PLUS there are black people in the U.S. claiming Obama does not deserve to be called black or African-American because he is not the descendent of slaves. He does not fit the historical definition of "African American" but he does of 2nd generation of African Immigrant. -acutally if you guys could find a better description of these African Nisei that would be helpful. I do understand what you're saying though. maybe Barack fits in multiple categories: Black, Mixed Race, African-American, American-African, Keny...man, his mom being white really throws a wrench in an otherwise perfect categorization--Blambloom 18:46, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
although never explicitly stated, this article does show the incosistencies of Race and Intelligence. I don't want to get into it because I don't have the stomach for that kind of debate. African immigrants are just as black (actually genetically MORE black) than black Americans (due to mixing with whites and native americans) but do fine. Imagine if everyone knew these facts. Also shows the importance of culture and upbringing rather than 'race' and other societial constructs. --Blambloom 19:07, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Intro
The intro of the article can use some work. It seems to have original/unsourced statements. Also note that Africans that have U.S. citizenship are refered to as "African Americans". --Ted87 22:29, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
That is incorrect, Ted87. The AA term does not refer to indigenous Africans. They are Nigerian, Ethiopian, Ghanaian, etc. Africa is a continent, not a country. Nationalities refer to countries.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.185.49.151 (talk • contribs).
Ted87, this isn't a smear campaign against Obama. Eventually all the children of African Immigrants, even the immigrants themselves can be technically "African Americans" Obama's white mother doesn't take anything away from his heritage, and he is indicative of typcial African Immigrant's children. Most of Harvard's blacks are not the traditional definition of "African American"—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yellowfiver (talk • contribs).
I don't know what you are talking about. I never even mentioned Obama's name. --Ted87 07:52, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Title
"African Immigrants (U.S.)" is a highly idiosyncratic term. I suggest Africans in the United States.--Pharos 00:40, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
What are you talking about? The--Yellowfiver 23:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC) title of this article is fine the way it is. Leave it alone. Like that old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."24.185.49.151 15:52, 24
- "Calling this article "African Immigrants" is Americocentric and inaccurate because it's not just about African immigrants to the US, but their descendants as well. We do have Wikipedia:Naming conventions.--Pharos 19:04, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
no, no, no. The title of the article is fine as "African Immigrants" (U.S.) merely indicated the destination. What you did was make the title Afrocentric, actually you really just made the article obscure, and harder to find. The name really should simply be "African Immigrants" If one is looking on google and is looking for this group, what do you think they'll enter? --straight to the point--African Immigrants. or roundabout Africans in the United States. This has been a really good article so far, and your help is greatly appreciated, but I would prefer you not to ruin it.
You also redirected "African Immigrants" to "African Diaspora" I dunno if you're some black activist trying to draw attention to "African Diaspora" but African Immigrants are an interesting subject as well. And they are named "African Immigrants!"--Yellowfiver 20:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- And African immigrants to Europe are also "African immigrants". That's the problem.--Pharos 20:57, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- Exactly! That's why the article was first named "African Immigrants" and then changed to "African Immigrants (U.S.)", This new change doesn't help or clarify, it just forces the article to fit your subjective view of the term. It's really a travesty. I foresaw something like this happening and meant to put write a complete section about the term before a foolish debate like this would begin. Americentric? doubtful, if anything it's biased towards African Immigrants (notice very few negatives in the article) why is that? I'm the son of West African parents at one of the colleges the article mentions. thought I was different, until I found out about African Immigrants. --Yellowfiver 21:11, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not saying the article is anti-African. I'm saying the title "African Immigrants (U.S.)" is idiosyncratic and not in keeping with our naming conventions. We have no articles on "Russian immigrants" or "Chinese immigrants".--Pharos 21:18, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- Chinese American, Russian American, Mexican American are all great terms, but we cannot use the term "African American" because it describes a specific group. Also the article combines the overall performance of African immigrants, combining Nigerians with Ethiopians with Ghanaians, because there aren't enough stats for the groups by themselves. There are articles called "Chinese Immigration to the U.S." The title's relative uniqueness lie in distinguishing the group from the now commonplace term "African Americans" Because of the history of Africans having already having lived in the U.S. due to slavery, different "African Immigrants" have to be described, and have been by numerous sources. Check all of the references, we are referred to as African Immigrants. NPR, NY Times, The 2000 U.S. Census. "African Immigrants (U.S.) certainly fits. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yellowfiver (talk • contribs) 21:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC).--Yellowfiver 21:42, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- The "immigration to" articles are specifically about the process of immigration, not the immigrant communities themselves. I realize that the term "African American" is taken, and that an alternate is needed. Hence the form "Xes in Y", which is used in many articles, while no other articles use "Xian immigrants". "African immigrants", no matter how much you personally may identify with the term, is also plainly inaccurate as a reference to American-born people.-Pharos 22:24, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- Good point about the American-born people whose are the children African Immigrants. I did not know how to reconcile that with the title. That being said, I don't know how "Africans in the United States" is better.--Yellowfiver 23:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- There's no inherent contradiction between being "African" and being American, as I said we have several articles like Hungarians in Vojvodina or Chinese in Japan. On the other hand, there is an inherent contradiction between being an "immigrant" and being American-born.--Pharos 17:05, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
- Whatever, I don't have the will to fight. "African Immigrants" is the term used by NPR and the U.S. Census, that's official enough for me. "Africans in the United States" doesn't make it any better. The inherent contradiction still exists. You just wanted to hijack the page "African Immigrants" because it now redirects to your "African Diaspora" article. Good job--Yellowfiver 22:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
- I find it a very strange idea that African diaspora is "my" article, considering I haven't edited it once in 2 1/2 years at Wikipedia. Look, there's nothing wrong with saying "African immigrant" when writing in an American context (well, except that it excludes children of immigrants), but this is very much an international encyclopedia and surely you're aware that the considerable majority of Africans who immigrate go to countries other than the US.--Pharos 16:42, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
- Whatever, I don't have the will to fight. "African Immigrants" is the term used by NPR and the U.S. Census, that's official enough for me. "Africans in the United States" doesn't make it any better. The inherent contradiction still exists. You just wanted to hijack the page "African Immigrants" because it now redirects to your "African Diaspora" article. Good job--Yellowfiver 22:10, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
- There's no inherent contradiction between being "African" and being American, as I said we have several articles like Hungarians in Vojvodina or Chinese in Japan. On the other hand, there is an inherent contradiction between being an "immigrant" and being American-born.--Pharos 17:05, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
- Good point about the American-born people whose are the children African Immigrants. I did not know how to reconcile that with the title. That being said, I don't know how "Africans in the United States" is better.--Yellowfiver 23:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- The "immigration to" articles are specifically about the process of immigration, not the immigrant communities themselves. I realize that the term "African American" is taken, and that an alternate is needed. Hence the form "Xes in Y", which is used in many articles, while no other articles use "Xian immigrants". "African immigrants", no matter how much you personally may identify with the term, is also plainly inaccurate as a reference to American-born people.-Pharos 22:24, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- Chinese American, Russian American, Mexican American are all great terms, but we cannot use the term "African American" because it describes a specific group. Also the article combines the overall performance of African immigrants, combining Nigerians with Ethiopians with Ghanaians, because there aren't enough stats for the groups by themselves. There are articles called "Chinese Immigration to the U.S." The title's relative uniqueness lie in distinguishing the group from the now commonplace term "African Americans" Because of the history of Africans having already having lived in the U.S. due to slavery, different "African Immigrants" have to be described, and have been by numerous sources. Check all of the references, we are referred to as African Immigrants. NPR, NY Times, The 2000 U.S. Census. "African Immigrants (U.S.) certainly fits. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yellowfiver (talk • contribs) 21:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC).--Yellowfiver 21:42, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not saying the article is anti-African. I'm saying the title "African Immigrants (U.S.)" is idiosyncratic and not in keeping with our naming conventions. We have no articles on "Russian immigrants" or "Chinese immigrants".--Pharos 21:18, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Misleading university data
The great majority of non-traditional African Americans at elite universities are Caribbean, not African. While I don't doubt that Africans are well represented in such institutions relative to their numbers, one has to remember that Africans are a tiny minority of people in the US.--Pharos 23:07, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
References? --Yellowfiver 23:22, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
