Talk:African American/Archive:West Indies

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This page is an archive of several past discussions on Talk:African American about people in the U.S. of African ancestry via the West Indies and whether the label "African American" would apply to them. This is an archive page, please do not edit it.

Contents 1 "...or Caribbean heritage"? 2 West Indies, again 3 West Indian/ Caribbean input 4 Afro American

"...or Caribbean heritage"?

Ed Poor changed:

African American (or African-American) is a term used to describe black Americans of African heritage. More broadly and less formally, it is sometimes used for any black person living in America.

to

African American (or African-American) is a term used to describe black Americans of African or Caribbean heritage.

Perhaps I'm misremembering my history, but isn't the black population of the Caribbean largely of the same origins as that of the US: descendants of Africans brought in and forced into slave labor during the colonial era? Ergo, Caribbean blacks are of African heritage? --Brion VIBBER

Exactly my point, Brion. But I couldn't figure out who to work that idea into the article. Would you please do that for me? --Ed Poor

Well, I'd have done it by not bothering to mention "Caribbean" in the first place. ;) --Brion VIBBER

West Indies, again

Question: Would the term African American be used for Black American citizens coming from the West Indies? If a Black British person took US citizenship would they become an "African American"? I am interesed in how direct the link with America has to be. --Anonymous

In the early nineties I read an article in a linguistic journal. I think the title was "Self Reference Terms for Decendants of American Slaves". Published in the early 1990s or late 1980s. I'll see if I can find it. (Personally I don't like the term African American. I believe whites like to use it so they can put Black Americans in with the emigrant groups and forget about the middle passage and slavery.) Gbleem 20:42 Jan 19, 2003 (UTC)

I believe African American, like other positive terms before it, has become popular at the behest of African Americans, not whites. As for your other question, many leading members of the community have come from a West Indian background, including Marcus Garvey, Sidney Poitier, and Colin Powell, which pretty much covers the possible range, yet they are all known as American Negroes or African Americans. On the other hand, if Lenny Henry moved to this country, fascinating thought, I'm pretty sure we'd think he was English. Since race is a social classification, there isn't going to be a heck of a lot of logic about it.Ortolan88

I'm sorry. I'm Gbleem and I was trying to answer the West Indies question written by someone else. I took the liberty of adding an Anonymous signature to that question. The article I mentioned talks about the path of the term African-American. Sure Black people started it but it was introduced to most Whites by Jessie Jackson. The intention by Blacks may be to have a term that has the same status as Italian-American or Asian-American but the result is a loss of significant history in the minds of other ethnic groups.

The online database I found doesn't go back before 1995. I'll try to get by the UMKC Library next week and find that article. "Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together In the Cafeteria?" by Beverly Tatum might have some interesting insites. I read it a few years ago but I remember her saying she liked Black because she was in college when "Black is Beautiful" was a popular slogan. I most likely heard that slogan on T.V. when I was a kid. (I'm 34) Gbleem

I'm still reading this stuff, and it gets curiouser and curiouser. Dang, bwoi. You gotta go back nine years and dig up some article by a single individual who happens to be a writer for a black point of view?!! And you heard "black as beautiful" as a slogan on TV when you were a kid?!! lol If you're so isolated/segregated from black folks that this is all you have to draw on, perhaps you shouldn't be contributing to this particular article. Just a thought. deeceevoice

I didn't "dig up" the article. I first read it shortly after it was published and it seems to be a good source by someone much more qualified than myself. If you have a dispute with the content of the journal article purhaps you should contact its author or submit your own article. As for the term "Black is Beautiful" I would guess most blacks my age who live in the midwest first heard it on TV as well although I haven't taken a formal survey. Gbleem 14:34, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Well, I'm glad you didn't bother. Not that I have a problem with it; I simply doubt its relevance. This article is already way off-point as it is. And, no. I needn't submit my own article -- thank you very much for the suggestion. I don't think there's a need to segregate black contribution -- just bomb the hell out of the garbage that's already been written and construct something useful and balanced. deeceevoice 15:15, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hi Gbleem, I took the further liberty of indenting our contributions to make it clear who's talking when. I really don't think anyone has ever forgotten that black people came here as slaves, regardless of the term used, from the most offensive to the most favored. And, if you've read memoirs by black Americans who have visited Africa, they almost always come back with a conviction that they are Americans, not Africans. Ortolan88

I hear that journalists are forced to use African American, and replace any use of black. One wonders how they will refer to Lennox Lewis. And anecdotally, I heard about a politician's office (Bay Area I think) which set up the word processor to automatically change the word. This led to the literal color black being replaced (...penguins are African-American and white)

"Forced" as in coercion? Ridiculous. Any publication of any merit has a style in matters such as this, so that there is consistency in format, spelling, word usage, etc. It's simply standard journalistic practice. YOu sign up with a publication, you follow the style manual.deeceevoice

West Indian/ Caribbean input

For what may be construed as a NPOV: I am a citizen of a Caribbean/ West Indian island, British colonial background, with two (black)(African) grandmothers, one white local grandfather and one white grandfather of US origin(he came and left!). No details of whether the two grandmothers came directly from african slave origins, free african, or via US slave origins. Local blacks are mostly of former British slave owners, especially Loyalists who fled US during War of Independence from Britain, and freed slaves released from intercepted ships (eg. Amistad and Creole) still engaged in slave trade with countries which had Emancipation after Britain. I am a (biracial)(half-breed)(mixed)(mulatto)who is often confused as hispanic ie. cuban, puerto rican or dominican when I travel to US by ALL in US. Locally, as the population is about 80%black, 10% white and 10% mixed, asian, east indian, etc., I am often called white boy, reds (=redbone) and a few other local appellations which you would not recognize. We have no indigenous amerindian population. The south Florida Hispanics? assume that I am one of them when I walk in, but opinions are visually apparent when my accent is heard. The US blacks (my usage) accept me a little more, but I am not black enough, etc. White Americans seem to treat me a little different I think, as a foreigner, meaning a little more positively than I feel they talk to African-Americans. I have family, friends, schoolmates in and from USA, and resided in various areas for school and temporary work assignments. Many African-Americans become upset at us in the Caribbean because we, decendants of a slave system, do not dwell on the topic as much, and sometimes appear indifferent. As majorities, we have taken over the politics of our countries, with some whites involved in appropriate percentages. Most would not vote for a white President or Prime Minister yet, but we are on the way. Mixed black/white with 'blacker' hair texture are black, whereas mixed with "softer" hair textures and "hispanic" features are white, red or local appellations. (See conchy-joe or redlegs). Most West Indians and Caribbean islanders are so engrossed in our our albeit newer cultures that we often do not know or care to know our African roots. We identify locally, and feel at home and at ease that we do not long for Mother Africa, or its identity. we definitely are not moving back. We are so laid back until we are horizontal. We still use the equivalent of racial slurs at each other in general mixed conversation, but everyone knows when and where. Yes, some get upset, but we are growing out of it, and sometimes it still hurts when it gets heated. We are on our way to some of the first world standards, and sometimes we wish some of the first world standards would slacken up a bit. Call me what you want, but do not call me Collect.

Manowar

Like practically all New World Africans, I'm a mongrel, too: African (from possibly Angola or thereabouts, since I was born in Louisiana; Caddo; Cherokee; Irish). In my multicultural, multi-ethnic, multilingual community, I'm often mistaken for Latina, myself -- especially when I speak Spanish. Also, E. Indian/Bangladeshi; Ethiopian; Egyptian -- you name it. But that's because many Latinos have African ancestors, and people of color look pretty much the same the world over. I remember taking a trip to British Columbia as a young child (1960s), and as we were entering a restaurant, the local white folks started counting as we passed by. When they got to one of my sisters, they exclaimed, "Look! There's an Eskimo!" But, IMO, black is black. Such curiosity/cases of mistaken identity on the part of others are pretty much par for the course.

I appreciate your contribution -- but are we supposed to do something with this, article-wise? Serious question. (You may want to take a look at black Canadian, if you haven't already done so.) deeceevoice 21:33, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Afro American

Doesn't the term Afro American (Afro-American) refer to people of direct or indirect African decent? (e.g. an American whose parents are Cuban and Jamican would be an Afro American as would someone straight from Africa) Dustin Asby 15:30, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

You're wrong about the straight from Africa part. A person from Kenya is Kenyan-American, just like a person from Italy is Italian-American. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.185.49.151 (talk • contribs) 16 February 2007.