Talk:Adultism

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Contents 1 Call to Remove NPOV Tag 2 General Conversation 3 "Co-counseling" 4 Seems biased 5 Disappeared?

[edit] Call to Remove NPOV Tag

This article is filled with citations that can are verifiable; I propose to remove its NPOV tag. Freechild 14:27, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] General Conversation

Perhaps some explanation of how "Adultism" is present in the given phrases would be appropriate. It appears as though Adultism is made to be a negative behavior; yet some of these phrases appear (to me) to be perfectly acceptable.

Hopefully, some of this is addressed a little better in the latest edit. Aaronwinborn 02:35, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Don't you all understand? This is clearly a piece of parody. I think it's some of the best I've read recently; however, Wikipedia isn't the place for this. I'd say Uncyclopedia is the place for this - Rhys Albress (actually posted by User:220.236.13.136 on 11:53, 16 August 2006 (UTC))

Actually, this is a real term and a real topic -- even if the concept is highly debatable. BCorr|Брайен 11:53, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree. However, it should be just fixed, rather than being deleted entirely (as FlareNUKE did). I have reverted the deletion of that section, and I am currently writing explanations of why said phrases are adultist. Rory096 1:19, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I have the deleted the "Understanding Adultism" link becuase the cookies it sent to my computer had viruses on it.-RainyDayCrow

[edit] "Co-counseling"

Why is there just the claim that adultism is the cause of all oppression(!) and no cite or explanation?

_ _ It seems implausible & in any case unverifiable to attribute the term to a presumably amorphous "grassroots" co-counseling while avoiding reference to hierarchical orgs: Re-evaluation Counseling(IIRC) coiners of "co-counseling", & its presumed service-mark-claimants, Co-Counselling International.
_ _ It is also a distortion to talk as if whoever coined the term is responsible for the subject of this article, which is the concept the article creator chose to refer to by this term. The chances are excellent that Adultism should be a redirect to another article, after this one is merged into it. Determining what that article is should be on the agenda here until there is a consensus that there is no suitable article already in existence.
--Jerzy•t 14:04, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I have heard and used the term on many occasions over the past few years, none of which through co-counseling. I have heard it in particular in discussions about unschooling, democratic schools, and Sudbury model schools. None of these have any relation to co-counseling, so even if the word originated there, it is certainly not being used exclusively by co-counselors any more.

Unless someone can present another article dealing more suitably with this subject, I would be against merging this article into another, as there is a growing awareness of the concept of adultism. The topic deserves to be heard. Aaronwinborn 19:20, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Seems biased

As much as I am anti-adultist, I don't think that the adult side of the situation seems to be represented enough. This article is very comprehensive to how adultist views can be dismissed, I haven't found an "adultist rebuttal" in the article. Once I see one, I will re-evaluate my opinion. —MESSEDROCKER (talk) 17:53, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

On the same token, I think you'll find that the Racism article doesn't give the same amount of time to racists as it gives to anti-racists. This is in accordance with Wikipedia's NPOV policy; specifically, "articles that compare views need not give minority views as much or as detailed a description as more popular views". [1] I agree that the article isn't complete, but I think that NPOV tag should be removed, noting the difference between bias and incompleteness. » K i G O E | talk 16:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, it could be the wording, but the article seems to me like a child's rant about his parents... Specially the paragraph against those MADD. I don't know who these mothers are, and don't care (they do no harm in Spain), but the paragraph just throws assertions about their (incorrect and silly) views and methods... Which asks for the replica: "and who says that?". Let's remember this is an encyclopaedia. --euyyn 20:15, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

And it's clearly missing proper citations for the assertions and written in a horribly informal tone. Bayerischermann 20:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Seems to me that the adult viewpoint is the majority viewpoint, not the minority. I would think there are many more people in the world who believe children lack some of the rights adults enjoy than believe the opposite. Applejuicefool 19:39, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

This article is going to remain disputed as adultism seems to be a generally accepted practise, and adressing it as a form of discrimination is going to upset a large number of people. Many things considered normal are called biased when the facts are given. Adressing the facts about racism one hundred years ago would most likely be called biased in favour of the minorities. That is what seems to be occuring now. It will probably remain disputed for a while to come. Faranya 02:10, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I would have thought that "adultism" would mean the hatred of adults by teens. Shouldn't the word be "teenism"? --Charlene 06:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Assuming that it was intended to be formed along the same lines as racism and sexism and the like, "adultism" would actually mean "discrimination against one particular type/subset of adults" (and "teenism" the same, only discrimination against a subset of teenagers instead). Ageism would appear to be the correct term in that case, but it usually refers to prejudice/discrimination against the elderly. CameoAppearance ^orate 01:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

The term "adultism" is premised on a similar structure as heterosexism; namely, adultism is a predisposition towards adults, which some see as biased against children, youth, and all young people who aren't addressed or viewed as adults. User:Freechild 19:22, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree that ageism is the more appropriate term, but Wikipedia isn't the place to have that discussion. Wikipedia only needs to know whether the term adultism exists (it does) and what it means (which the article states accurately). The article is properly sourced and is accurate, there is no cause for a bias tag. If you have a problem with people advancing the notion of adultism then complain to the people advancing it, don't flag an article explaining that phenomena. KPalicz 16:59, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Unlike the facetious alternate term presented above, namely "teenism," the term adultism was not made up today. Instead there is an authentic etymological history and popular usage that extends far beyond one person's imagination. More so, the term ageism is inherently adultist, as those who proclaim it's supercession of the term adultism are clearly deny the necessity of identifying adultism as a legitimate oppression. User:Freechild 04:13, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not denying its legitimacy (I've been a victim of adultism myself) as a type of oppression. I simply believe that "ageism" would be the better term, etymologically speaking, on parallel with sexism and racism, because what we know as adultism (as well as the discrimination against senior citizens that "ageism" is currently applied to) consists, like sexism and racism, of the oppression of and/or discrimination against one group by another, dominant, group. However, ageism is already taken as a descriptive term, so adultism (similar to the word heterosexism - although that was coined because "sexual-orientationism" or somesuch is awkward and clunky to say) fills that void. CameoAppearance ^orate 22:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it is important to acknowledge that the use of ageism is already appropriately taken, as it describes discrimination related to any age. If I was in the position to choose the word, I would probably go with youthism, or teenism, just like I think the fruit referred to as a cherry would be better addressed as a carmine. However, the simple fact of the matter is that there is an etymological history to adultism that starts at least 30 years ago, and seriously debating re-titling the term would be roughly equivalent to teaching a 3-year-old to enjoy carmines. Freechild 00:33, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disappeared?

Is it just my computer, or has this article disappeared? I'm getting a "This article doesn't exsist..." page when it's entered or searched for. The discussion and history pages are still there, but no article. I'm not exactly a wikipedia expert, so I don't know. Cheers, My baloney 11:21, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Disconcerting. It is gone, without any explanation or history. Freechild 13:47, 2 December 2006 (UTC)