Talk:Adrienne Clarkson

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous. If such material is repeatedly inserted or there are other concerns relative to this policy, report it on the living persons biographies noticeboard.

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.

Biography Portal

This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. [FAQ]
(If you rated the article, please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)

This article is supported by the Politics and government work group.

[edit] NOTICES

PLEASE NOTE THAT THE FOOTNOTES ARE CURRENTLY SECTIONALIZED SO THAT THEY WILL NOT GET JUMBLED OUT OF ORDER. THEY WILL BE MELDED INTO THEIR PROPER SECTION WHEN THE PAGE IS IN BETTER SHAPE Dowew 04:12, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ms. Clarkson

Ms. Clarkson had an impact on me growing up in Canada. Her take 30 shows and later Fifth Estate were hard news, often going into social issues that Canadians found difficult to face such as spousal abuse, poverty, etc. Her interview with the Shah of Iran should be mentioned, she went in for issues such as torture and military expansion that the Shah had to provide answers for, however she went at it with great diplomacy.

P. Fitzgerald

[edit] Clarkson and 9/11

After 9/11 happened, she praised Operation Yellow Ribbon, saying that "communities across the country selflessly opened their homes and hearts to stranded air travellers." Chretien and U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci would also do the same thing. They also have never forgotten her standing with both of them on Parliament Hill during the memorial service to honour the victims on September 14, 2001, which over 100,000 attended--the largest single vigil ever seen in the nation's capital.

This bit of phrasing, talking about the (uncited, presumably speculative?) memories of Cretien and Cellucci seems inappropriate to an encyclopedia to me, being suitable rather for a glossy press release. And less glaringly, it seems odd to observe that J.C. and P.C. also praised Yellow Ribbon (in an article about A.C., as contrasted with an article about Yellow Ribbon or 9/11), since that seems to be understandable as baby-kissing writ large. So, I feel that the second two sentences could be cleaned up. In fact, it's possible that this paragraph is not useful, or has undue prominence: is her participation in post-9/11 foofooraw really the most significant event of the first 3 years of her term of office, as the article indirectly suggests? jholman 18:56, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Satirical link

Satirical links are vandalism!? I replaced the satirical link to Clarkson the Terrible.com. There are 2 positive links and a basically glowing encyclopedia entry; plus the link is clearly marked as satirical. She's a head of State, for pete's sake, surely there's room for Clarkson critique on Wikipedia? Flickharrison

As far as I'm concerned satire doesn't "cut it." But it's not because it is denigrating to Ms. Clarkson. I just think that links should be more factual in nature. If somebody's assembled a collection of negative facts about Ms. Clarkson, it has every reason to be linked, but my sense is that a satirical article is not an appropriate place to link to from an encyclopedic article. But I'll leave it in there, pending discussion here. - Cafemusique 17:00, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Clarkson's Maiden Name Is Poy in English, Wu in Mandarin and Eng in Cantonese

An editor added that Clarkson is née Poy. But I think the editor confused Adrienne Clarkson with Vivienne Poy, another female Chinese-Canadian politician. Clarkson's maiden name is 伍, which is romanized as Wu or Woo (in Mandarin), or Ng or Eng (in Cantonese). Poy is an unlikely romanization. --Menchi 21:18 Feb 19, 2003 (UTC)

I see where the Poy editor may have gotten that idea from. I just read an article from the Taiwanese newspaper Central Daily News that says "Vivienne Poy and Adrienne Clarkson are in-laws. This is because Vivienne Poy's husband 伍衛權 (in pinyin: Wu1 Wei4-quan1; in Cantonese: Ng5 Wai6-kyun4) is Adrienne Clarkson's younger brother." Maybe Vivienne Poy remarried but didn't change her surname? --Menchi 21:57 Feb 19, 2003 (UTC)

The answer (found on a forum posting) is that the Poy family's surname was originally Wu/Eng (伍), but changed to Poy (character unknown) after they immigrated to Canada. -Menchi 22:05 Feb 19, 2003 (UTC)

The following was removed from the article twice without explanation by User:Timtonruben359:

(伍冰枝; pinyin: Wǔ Bīng zhī; Cantonese: Ng5 Benk1 zi1)

—Gabbe 18:20, Jun 20, 2004 (UTC)

Origin of "poy" as explained in this following link: http://www.coibs.com/newversion/chinese/CoibsItemCANews/20020206001.htm . For those who can't read Chinese in this article, it explained that the Ng (伍) surname became "Poy" when the family immigrated to Canada and the grandfather (伍培 Ng Pui) of Adrienne told immigrant official his name as "Ah Pui" and the official took it as the last name which then coined as Poy. However, in an english transcript of Senator Vivienne Poy's address to an australian university, Senator Poy spoke of her grandfather had already used the name Poy in Australia when he opened his store. But Poy was probably not used as a last name in that case. http://www.sen.parl.gc.ca/vpoy/english/Special_Interests/speeches/Nortel_Networks_July00.htm--Kvasir 08:47, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mandarin??

Is there any merit of listing the Mandarin pronunciation for any of the Poy family members? There is no evidence that the Poys, being originated from southern China (Hakka / Taishan to be precise) even used Mandarin. The Mandarin pronunciation also do not contribute to explain how "Ng" became "Poy" --Kvasir 08:51, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Her Excellency the Rt Hon.

Regarding Zocky's edit: 'rm "Her excellency, the right honourable". The article shouldn't start like that. Is there a way (and a need) to work this somehow back in?)' I would like to hear why you think the article should not start with her styles and titles. They are something that a good encyclopedia should include, and in the first sentence is the most natural place to put it. I think the only other way to include them is in a one-sentence paragraph: "Her official styles and titles are ...", What about articles about famous miltary figures? Should their military rank be omitted from the first paragraph? "Her Excellency the Right Honourable" can be see as a civilian counterpart to military rank. -- Indefatigable 20:41, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Not really. This is not a rank, it's a form of address used for her office. Like "Her majesty". Should pages on monarchs start with "Her Majesty Elisabeth the second is..."? (not that I agree that pages on generals should start with "General Wesley Clark is...")

Zocky 22:26, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Why not start with "Her Excellency" or "Her Majesty"? What is the harm? It adds a fact to the article and causes no harm that I can see.--Indefatigable 00:37, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Good material for a Forms of address article. Salsa Shark 20:45, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Clarkson

Where did the last name Clarkson come from? --Jiang | Talk 07:52, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)

She didn't like her monosyllabic surname, so she made up a new one. (Kidding) It's from her first marriage. I'll work that into the article. --Menchi (Talk)â 07:55, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Criticising her for not marrying Chinese husbands seems a bit bizarre. Also, considering it was almost unheard of for women to keep their maiden names when she was first married it would be a bit much to have expected her to keep hers.

From Maiden name "Legally and commonly, Chinese and Korean women do not, as a tradition, discard their maiden names after marriage." I can understand them being offended, as in their culture, a chinese taking on their husband's surname would have been "unheard of".

The point about her last name is irrelevent. When she married Stephen Clarkson 40 years or so ago it was almost unheard of for women to keep their maiden names. To use this as a criticism of her for ignoring her Chinese heritage is silly. Andylehrer 02:21, 13 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The "maiden name" article is worded very badly. I shall edit it after this. I'm Chinese and what she did makes perfect sense. Since she married an English person, she just followed the English custom with her name. Her "English" surname wasn't even Chinese. Now in Chinese it would just sound weird to add an extra three sounds (Clarkson) to her name. Nothing to do with heritage, which in any case only applies to the Chinese name written in Chinese. 219.77.98.28 13:49, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

As for why she kept the name - she became a TV star in Canada in the 1960s while she was married to Clarkson. Becoming famous as "Adrienne Clarkson" it would have been unreasonable to expect her to change her name upon becoming divorced. Note she has not changed her name to Adrienne Saul since marrying John Ralston Saul.

[edit] Vancouver Protest

Is last month's protest really noteworthy enough to merit inclusion in an article about her. As it's listed, it seems to be dissatisfaction about her actions on a relatively unimportant trip. Rather trivial for an article about her, and probably wouldn't be noticed, I daresay, if it wasn't a current event at the time of insertion. Shouldn't this be removed? Cafemusique 22:15, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I agree. This incident will probably be long forgotten a month from now, and is likely too trivial to be included in an overview of her life and career, like this encyclopedia article.--Indefatigable 23:13, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] An article that dwells on the negatives

Although the article tries to represent various points of view, overall the article is negative, constantly citing "some monarchists". First of all, monarchists as a group are a minority; vocal monarchists are smaller again. Monarchists who spend most of their time attacking the Queen's representative end up defeating their own cause by undermining support for a monarchy. Let's face it, the UK monarchy has been in retreat since Charles I was beheaded. That said, it would be nice to say something positive about Madame Clarkson. I am old enough to remember every Canadian Governor General since 1952. Although most were dignified and worthy of the office, some stood out as distinguished and inspirational - Georges Vanier was a magnificent figure and person who commanded respect. Clarkson is hardly in his saintly category, but she commands respect for her intellect and love of Canada. Read her speeches, they are very good. There has NEVER been a time in Canadian history when the OFFICE of GG has not been criticized as a waste of money, but then there are people who seem to think that any government activity of any sort is a waste of money. So what! government goes on and changes itself as required. So, couldn't one of you get rid of the picayune criticisms and focus on Clarkson's dignitas and gravitas. She will be leaving office soon. Let's hope her successor is as committed to the promotion of Canadian culture in Canada and abroad, and not a political hack.--BrentS 15:33, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think BrentS has the right idea here, the article definitely has some NPOV problems. Currently almost half of the article is listing her bad press while in office. Though she's worthy of criticism, it should be toned-down. The article focuses too much on the public's opinion of what she did rather than what she did on its own. It might work better if the article first discusses what she did or did not accomplish as GG, then followed by the public criticism of her actions/inactions. --PullUpYourSocks 00:41, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

I think it should be noted that John Ralston Saul in his career has managed to piss off quit a number of prominant people, and that it is speculated that much of the critisisms against Clarkson, particularly in the first couple of years, were actually veiled attacks on him Dowew 21:16, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Religion?

What was her religion? seems she needs it for her infobox, as with the others. -- Earl Andrew - talk

Only if her religion has some significance. DoubleBlue (Talk) 04:11, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Not sure about her religion. We might as well put it in. I´ve emailed the GG´s office and asked, but it will take a while to get a response Homagetocatalonia

Thanks very much Homagetocatalonia. It may not have any signifigance, but if all other GG's have their religion in their infobox, we might as well add hers. -- Earl Andrew - talk 17:52, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Her Excellency is an Anglican. Before her appointment she and John Ralston Saul were parishioners of St. Mary Magdalene, Toronto. Carruthers 17:22, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

I remember a while ago there was some controversy when she was seen taking communion in a Roman Catholic Church. Dowew 04:10, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] term of office

Does the end date of this office coincide with the start date of when the successor is taking office? I believe that Clarkson is not GG anymore on this day. Can someone shed some light on this? Intangible 13:59, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Correct; effective this date (27 September 2005), Adrienne Clarkson was succeeded by Michaëlle Jean as Governor General. E Pluribus Anthony 17:33, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

I think the question was whether Clarkson left office (a) at 23:59 September 26, (b) at the instant Jean was sworn in, or (c) sometime between these two points. I don't know the answer, but I suspect it's (b). Indefatigable 23:38, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

That would depend on the thingy the Queen signed that says she's the GG. I would think it's midnight, in many places monarch's even if not crowned, are assumed to be Queen or King until they are crowned if there is a death. --

Spinboy 23:49, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

I think Adrienne Clarkson ceased to be Governor General the moment Michaelle Jean was sworn in. Yes, The Queen has issued a new commission appointing Madame Jean as Governor General, but note that there was a Deputy Governor General who presided over the ceremony. Now, note the title, "Deputy Governor General" is the shortened version of "the Honourable the Deputy to the Governor General". Now since Michaelle Jean was not Governor General until she was sworn in, who exactly was the Deputy to? Thus, it makes sense that Adrienne Clarkson was Governor General until the moment Michaelle Jean became Governor General. If she wasn't, then the Deputy should not have been 'Deputy Governor General' and instead should have been 'Administrator'. Eddo

At a press conference after her "swearing out" (for lack of a better word) on The 26th of Sept Clarkson said that she had "great respect for this office, which I happen to inhabit, until tomorrow". I would think that means that althought she was "sworn out" she was still the GG until Jean was sworn in. After all, Canada needed a head of state - what would happen if war broke out and someone had to sign important legislation in that 24 hour period ? Dowew 16:59, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

As indicated above, Clarkson's term is clear; it is also apparently continuous with Jean's (swearing in ceremony). I presume if there was something truly imminent, it would be dealt with appropriately (by and whomever was the current GG at the time of the emergency). E Pluribus Anthony 17:11, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

I just watched the swearing in ceremony online and from the sounds of it I think the Chief Justice of Canada was the acting GG during the interum period. Dowew 19:16, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Order of Canada

Is it safe to say that Clarkson was the first GG to have the Order of Canada prior to becoming the GG ? Dowew 23:45, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] links for future use

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20050923/clarkson_memoir_050923?s_name=&no_ads=

[edit] Fifth Estate Screencaps

These are some screencaps of Clarkson hosting The Fifth Estate I took with my digital camera Dowew 03:02, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry but these screen caps make her look like a demonic cult leader or something. Is there any screencap with her interviewing someone? --Kvasir 08:00, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] photo gallery

I am moving the photo gallery in here for a while so that the main page is now slowed down and so that it doesn't violate wikipedia's policy about fair use photos

Image:PaulAnkaOrderofCanada.jpg|Presenting the Order of Canada Image:Denys ArcandtheorderofCanada2005crowncopyright.jpg|Presenting the Order of Canada Image:ClarksonandQueen2005.jpg|Clarkson & The Queen Image:ClarksonSaulRemembranceCC.jpg|Clarkson & Saul attend remembrance day ceremonies Image:ClarksonRemCC.jpg Image:ClarksonHutterites.jpg

I removed three images as they were only available for non-commercial use, according to [1]. howch e ng {chat} 18:45, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Autobiography

I had previous put that Clarkson will be the first GG to write an autobiography. It actually looks like [[Vincent Massey] may have written a couple of books. I am going to get them from my University Library before I remove the sentence because they may or may not be of an autobiographical nature. Dowew 00:22, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Second thought the title What's past is prologue : the memoirs of the Right Honourable Vincent Massey, C.H. tends to suggest that its an autobiography

Frederick Hamilton-Temple-Blackwood, 1st Marquess of Dufferin and Ava wrote a book called Letters from High Latitutes but this apears to have been a book about his travels in Iceland rather than his time in Rideau Hall. Dowew 02:44, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

John Buchan, 1st Baron Tweedsmuir, who was also the writer of The 39 steps wrote his 1940 autobiography Memory hold the door]] while in Rideau Hall Dowew 03:05, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] References

For those of you reading this page you will notice that the references are currenly secionalized. This is done so that they will not get out of order. They will later be merged into a "refernces" or "notes" section Dowew 01:59, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Someone recently moved then into a notes sectin (OUT OF ORDER!!!!) they need to get into proper order !

[edit] Military

Is there a reason why this article and Michaëlle Jean are in Category:Military of Canada? Ziggurat 00:53, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the Governor-general is Commander in chief of Canada's military in much the same way that the U.S president is Commander in chief of the U.S. military -Dhodges 00:18, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tree planting cancelled?

Where did that information come from? The link for the reference goes to gg.ca, and it indicates on that site that the planting did happen. I'm also pretty sure it happened, since I've seen the tree. Anyone who visits the gardens at Rideau Hall can have the tree pointed out to them. True, there is not yet a plaque up for the tree, but there are other dedicated trees at Rideau Hall without plaques as well (such as Hu Jintao).

[edit] Toi-San /Tai-Shan /Hoi-San

Does anyone know if Clarkson knows Hoi-San (Hoi-San) /Toi-San (Cantonese) /Tai-Shan (Mandarin) dialect of Chinese? 132.205.44.134 01:37, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request Clarification

"Clarkson's paternal grandfather. . .migrated to Australia and opened a general store in Chiltern, Victoria . . . His eldest son William was later sent back to Taishan and made his way to Hong Kong. There he married and worked with his father for the Canadian government." How could the son have worked with his father while in Hong Kong when his father was running a store in Australia? I didn't remove this as it is likely that the actual facts have simply been obscured by a grammatical error.JeanKorte 17:27, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

You are right, the facts might have been confounded over several edits by different people. The following simplified chinese sources all basically say the same thing regarding the circumstances under which the Poys immigrated to Canada. There was no mention of grandfather being in Hong Kong prior or during the War.

Sources: [2] [3] [4] [5]

The situation was that, according to the above sources, Adrienne's father was a staff of "加拿大商务局" (need the correct translation) and the family was able to repatriate with the other Canadian civil servants. Even then the family encountered difficulty to enter during to the Chinese Exclusion Act enforced at the time. The Department was eventually able to use the remaining quota in the prisoners of war exchange program to get the Poy family into Canada.

This source [6] says Adrienne's father was working with the grandfather for the Canadian government. See above section for the discussion about the origin of the surname Poy. --Kvasir 08:35, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../a/d/r/Talk%7EAdrienne_Clarkson_010e.html"

Categories: Biography articles of living people | Politics and government work group articles | B-Class biography (politics and government) articles | Unknown-priority biography (politics and government) articles | Biography collaboration candidates | B-Class biography articles