Talk:Administrative divisions of New York

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This page could stand a great deal more wikification. There are many terms used here which have adequate free-standing articles and should be properly cross-referneced. 18.24.0.120 05:19, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 N.Y.C. Community Boards 2 New York articles 3 Introduction 4 Contradictory phrasing? 5 Rename this article? 6 City of Sherrill 7 School districts 8 Largest and least populous towns 9 "Particular" vs. "Peculiar" 10 Disambiguated divisions 11 Hamlet 12 Categories 13 Boroughs vs. counties

[edit] N.Y.C. Community Boards

These should probably be added. If anyone has knowledge on the subject, please share. Otherwise, I will investigate. (I am a bit embarrassed that as a Brooklynite, I am unfamiliar with the purpose and function of these.)[[User:Nricardo|--Nelson Ricardo >>Talk<<]] 21:41, Sep 25, 2004 (UTC)

I did this not long ago. Nelson Ricardo 04:42, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] New York articles

Even though the article for the state itself is at New York, not New York State (which is a re-direct,) why do several articles relating to it say "New York State" in them?? 66.245.82.61 00:52, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

New York State makes it clear that the state is being discussed, not New York City. The New York article does not include "State" in the title so that it conforms to the other 49 states. Another state often followed by "State", but whose article title does not do so, is Washington (to differentiate from Washington, D.C.). Nelson Ricardo 01:52, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction

The phrasing "The definitions of the political subdivisions of New York State differ from those in most other states" seems a little strong to me. To be honest, I see very little in this article that is dramatically different from most other states. older≠wiser 03:01, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)

Most states do not have the term "hamlet". "Villages" in other states tend to be unincorporated, as are "towns" (though "townships", a term not found in NY, are incorporated) (see town and village). In most states, there are large areas administered directy by counties, where there in no lower level of local government. All areas of NY have govt. below the county level. I'm not saying all states vary, but enough do that some clarification is useful (not to mention for residents of other countries). Also, my rewrite was a rewording without changing the essential meaning of the intro. since the article was created. If you feel there is better wording, please be bold. Nelson Ricardo 03:27, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)

True enough about hamlets, although all states have the equivalent sort of small unincorporated communities. There are quite a few states that do have incorporated villages. NY Towns are the direct equivalent of Townships in other states (although not all the states that have townships utilize them for governmental purposes) and there are other states with Towns in the same sense as NY. I still think the phrasing is misleading in implying that NY political subdivisions "differ from those in most other states". I think that is simply untrue. There are some minor variations, which are to be expected, but overall the basic scheme is quite recognizable as more similar than different to that of many other states. older≠wiser 12:49, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Contradictory phrasing?

I think a recent addition makes for contradictory phrasing: The term "hamlet" actually has no meaning under New York law, and is often used in the state's statutes merely to refer to well-known developed areas that are not separately incorporated as villages. If the term is used in state statutes, then how can it be without meaning under New York law. I suspect that what is meant is simply that "hamlets" are not defined as a type of municipality. older≠wiser 12:29, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)

That's why I was thinking of reverting the addition to the text by an anom user. See http://www.dos.state.ny.us/lgss/pdfs/Handbook.pdf (page 101). Nelson Ricardo 18:28, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)

However, it is true that the term "hamlet" appears numerous times in the Laws of New York [1] and even appears in the state constitution. I'd say that the phrasing in the handbook is perhaps somewhat imprecise: While many people refer to such places as "hamlets", the term "hamlet" actually has no meaning under New York law. (Chapter VIII, pg 101). It might be more precise to say something like the term "hamlet" has no meaning as a form of local government under New York law. older≠wiser 19:00, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)

I've rephrased the section, but feel free to edit if you can make it sound better. Thanks! Nelson Ricardo 20:22, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Rename this article?

Using the "What links here" link, I see that there are dozens of links on Wikipedia to Political subdivisions of New York State, which is a redirect to this page, and only one or two directly to this page. I suggest it would make more sense to rename this page than to redo the dozens of links. Unless anyone objects, I'll make this change in a day or two. RussBlau 15:21, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Good idea. I did not agree with the pedantic move in the first place. (You may need an admin to do the move correctly, since the target page already exists.) Nelson Ricardo 17:31, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] City of Sherrill

For source on the City of Sherrill not being independent of the town government, see the city charter, which is linked to from the Sherrill, New York article. RussBlau 19:15, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)

I see that now. Why the f--- would they do something like that? Our govt. is more screwed up than I ever thought possible. Sherrill has no business being a "city". Nelson Ricardo 01:49, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] School districts

The article identifies the various types of school districts by name only and does not specify why there are various types of school districts or how they differ. That part of the article is not very helpful, especially to people who live in different states, where school organization can be radically different. Clarification is respectfully requested. Doctor Whom 02:47, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes, expansion would be useful, but see the State of N.Y., Local Govt. Handbook, 5th ed., Jan. 2000 (chapter 9) for now. Nelson Ricardo 10:53, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Largest and least populous towns

Those were both wrong. I have corrected them (although the former does have a qualifier, duly noted).Daniel Case 05:06, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Particular" vs. "Peculiar"

I recently changed a section heading from "...particular to New York..." to "...peculiar to New York...". The change was reverted, with a comment that the original "makes more sense". That's subjective, so I've re-applied the edit. If you are considering reverting again, I would ask that you first consult a dictionary: (for example, http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=particular and http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=peculiar). If the change is reverted again, I won't reapply it, since I'm not looking for trouble ;-) uFu 01:01, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

I read. Particular makes more sense. Peculiar is used more in the sense of odd or weird. Nelson Ricardo 02:05, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. Merriam-Webster has the "distinctive" sense listed first, then the "odd" sense. I'm gonna try "unique" as a compromise, and see if it sticks. This'll be my last attempt at this (promise), since I'm sure we both have more valuable contributions we could be making. uFu 23:51, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Ooh. That's the best one so far. I concur. (You can't always trust the dictionary for the most common sense. Some order based on oldest usage. Look up "gay" on M-W, for example.) Nelson Ricardo 05:21, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguated divisions

For lack of a better place to put it: /Disambiguated divisions --SPUI (T - C) 00:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

And a proposal: Wikipedia:Political subdivisions of New York --SPUI (T - C) 01:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hamlet

The proposed bill recently cited in the Hamlet section will likely not pass on two counts: 1) it is poorly written and uses unofficial terms such as "unincorporated village" (if it's a village, it's incorporated) and 2) hamlets do not have defined borders, so it would be impossible to develop statistics for them. --Nelson Ricardo 06:50, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

And where is Hamlet "officially" defined in NY State law? --- Skapur 15:40, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

It's not. Hamlets have no "official" existence under N.Y. state law. --Nelson Ricardo 16:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Not to be elitist or anything (yes, I am), but perhaps the terminology issues relate to the bill's sponsor not being a college graduate. --Nelson Ricardo 07:08, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Fortunately, Wikipedia's is designed for the masses, not the elites and should incorporate common usage. On Long Island, the common usage is village for unincorporated communities as reflected in the name of a myriad publications and the names of a lot of localities. Examples: Old Bethpage village, Three Villages area, etc. --- Skapur 15:40, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is here to educate and inform, not to perpetuate popular misconceptions. If a hamlet is popularly called a village, this can be noted, but we must also note that it is not a village in the legal sense of the word. --Nelson Ricardo 16:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

I do not understand why this page should not be in the Geography of New York category. There are two basic types of geography: natural and political. This article definitely falls under political geography. --Nelson Ricardo 17:51, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Boroughs vs. counties

This article says "Each of the five boroughs of New York City is coextensive with one of its five counties." This is generally thought to be true, and it is, but with an exception that makes it not be true: Theres a small piece of what is geographically in the Bronx, Marble Hill, which is actually part of New York County, and used to be part of Manhattan. When the Harlem River was re-routed in the early 20th century, this piece of land (less than a square mile) was attached to the Bronx by filling in a canal, but is still part of its old borough. Capek 21:39, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Marble Hill belongs to the borough of Manhattan and the county of New York, so I do not understand how that makes the statement incorrect. The fact that the land is physically attached to the Bronx does not change its legal status. --Nélson Ricardo 21:50, 19 March 2007 (UTC)