Talk:Administrative divisions of England

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Out of date?

This all looks a bit odd to be honest. There seems to be no mention of the Local Authority admin level. There's a section outlining changes "proposed for 2004". Is the artical just out of date?


Contents

[edit] Cities and boroughs

An explanation of the difference between "Cities" and "Cities and Boroughs" would be useful here. Vicki Rosenzweig

I agree. The reference used here is the CIA World Fact Book, and even if I do not doubt that the facts are correct, my experience is that it can sometimes be structured in an archetypical way, which may lead to misinterpretation. I am just surprised over the lack of structure for the articles on the subdivisons of England and the UK and this is what I'm trying to adress. -- Mic
- It looks like the term "city borough" is no longer used. A Google search of the official .gov.uk domain reveals mention of no "city and borough"s and only three "city boroughs": Peterborough, Durham and Sunderland. The last two in historical contexts. Of the three, only Sunderland appears on the CIA's list. As the 2002 fact book didn't include Wolverhampton's or Brighton's promotion to city status in 2000, I expect it's also missed out the end of "city borough"s.
Google's cache reveals that at www.government-online.co.uk (a limited company in Stockport, not a governemnt site) there used to be a lot of pages referring to "Manchester city borough council" etc., which have now changed to read "Manchester city concil".
I've rearranged the lists to bring "cities" and "city boroughs" together and questioned the distinction. Andy G 20:44 19 Jun 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Weird

This is an absolutely weird article; the administrative regions of England are as follows:

  • Shire counties, eg Cornwall, with their component
    • district councils
  • Unitary authorities like Rutland and Brighton and Hove
  • Metropolitan counties like West Yorkshire, with their component
    • metropolitan districts, eg Bradford MDC
  • London boroughs (royal boroughs no distinction)

jimfbleak 15:21 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Yes it's certainly odd, but I expect the CIA got their classifications from somewhere. It would be nice to trace where they did come from before replacing them with more up-to-date groupings. Incidentally-

The regions named certainly match those on the Ordnance Survey administratvie map of GB, so it's just the groupings that are odd. Andy G 19:55 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Milton Keynes

By what logic is e.g. Milton Keynes an "Administrative county"? It has never been a county, and is at present known as a "Unitary Authority". Andy G 19:11, 24 Jan 2004 (UTC)

It has been an administrative county since April 1, 1997. Please see county of Milton Keynes, which quotes from [1], which makes this clear. Morwen 11:54, Jan 25, 2004 (UTC)

Oh. Mea culpa. I see we also have a "County of Bath and North East Somerset". I get the feeling the term "county" has been hijacked to describe any old legislative area the government want, rather than what people normally think of as a county. I can't see a DJ reading out a letter from "Maisie in Bath and North East Somerset". Andy G 18:52, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

We also have a bunch of Ceremonial counties of England, which are the ones people use geographically today. They are basically the same as the 1974 counties, but with Cleveland, Humberside, and Avon abolished, and Herefordshire and Rutland restored. I am pondering about how to integrate the articles into a big counties of England article. Morwen 18:54, Jan 25, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Assembly NE

This article needs updating, as an Assembly referenum is only going to be held in the NE now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.86.157.83 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Some Questions / Comments

I think this statement about Lord-Lieutenancy counties is questionable: These counties are sometimes used by people when describing where they live in England. I've never heard or seen anyone refer to where they come from with reference to a Lord-Lieutenant's seat. It sounds unlikely to me. Is there any evidence for this?

Secondly, is the City of London actually a London borough? If the city's authority is legally different shouldn't it have its own listing as 'county-level subnational entities' on this page? Also, who actually governs the inns of court? Are they local authorities in their own right, or areas that are not within any local authority?

Lastly, if The "shire counties" were also created in 1974 and are legally known as non-metropolitan counties why are we calling them "shire counties"? Isn't it better to stick to legal names rather than making up alternative names and putting them in quotation marks? Stringops 17:06, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page move?

Should this reflect Local government in Scotland and move to Local government in England? (currently redirects here, and more articles link to this redirect than any other) Mrsteviec 17:35, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure. I'd say "Administrative divisions of" gives more indication that the article will address areas more than the machinery of local government; perhaps it's Local government in Scotland et al that might benefit from a rename...?  Regards, David Kernow (talk) 01:57, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
For some reason I expect Administrative divisions of England to mention health authorities or other kinds of divisions. Which other articles do you propose moving, aside from the Scotland one? Mrsteviec 06:56, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I don't (yet) have a firm idea, as I'm not sure whether the kinds of "divisions" or "areas" addressed in these articles are best identified as "(national) administrative divisions", "administrative country subdivisions", or something else. (I'm thinking worldwide.) What's your experience...?  I do feel, however, that "Local government in..." is probably too vague a name per the areas/machinery distinction above. Thanks for your input, David (talk) 09:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I would say that this article is already straying beyond the scope of "divisions" as it has a light sprinkling of the functions of local government (talking occasionally about "powers" but not saying which ones); I think this could do with expansion. Mrsteviec 10:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Expansion and/or clarification... I'm interested, though, by your reading of "Administrative divisions of England" since I agree that "administrative divisions", even when in the context of a country, doesn't necessarily imply counties, provinces, municipalities, etc, etc; hence my musing above. Yours, David (talk) 12:28, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
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