Talk:Acting Vice President of the United States

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article was nominated for deletion on January 27, 2007. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Contents 1 Acting Vice President ? 2 Someone just made this up 3 How to understand this office 4 Moved page

[edit] Acting Vice President ?

Is there any written proof, these president pro-tempores were listed as Acting Vice Presidents? GoodDay 00:10, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think there is a written account or an actual title of "Acting Vice President". These are people who were next in line to the U.S. President when there was no Vice President due to vacancy by death, resignation, etc. I believe "Acting V.P." is more of a modern term, yet a couple of them believed they were President for a day, or "Acting President". There are inaccuracies with this page. For example George Poindexter was not next in line and Hugh Lawson White was. Someone read the history wrong. Jjmillerhistorian 23:57, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I think this article should be deleted. GoodDay 04:14, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Someone just made this up

Hello, all.

I read with some interest the details of this article. I have read a lot about Nixon/Watergate/Ford/Albert and done several papers for which research was required about that topic and I have never seen Speaker Albert described or referred to as "Acting Vice President."

There is absolutely NO mention of an "Acting Vice President" in the Constitution of the United States or in the U.S. Code.

Quite simply: someone has just made this up. Given its complete lack of sources for ANY of its claims and the recognition that no historical organization has ever recognized its claims to be true, the article all but admits that someone just made this up.

Wikipedia has requirements to source information for a reason. I do not believe this article should be on here since it cannot be sourced. (And for the additional reason that I think someone just made this up.) JasonCNJ 14:35, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

• I don't believe a Speaker of the House would actually be considered "Acting Vice President". I don't even know if that term existed for the President pro tempore of the Sentate. My main contributions to this article refers to the fact that these people were next in line to the Presidency during a Vice Presidential vacancy. This page could be renamed. As you notice with the Carl Albert photo I did not mention him as "Acting Vice President", but simply as next in line. He even stated if Nixon or Ford had died he would rather have a Republican take the Presidency as mandated by the people. So he probably would not have considered himself as "Acting veep". As for Crawford, I put the alleged title in parenthesis. The next in line to the Veep should be the pro tempore not the Speaker. As I said in the above statement, I think its more of a modern term to name the "next in line" who isn't the Vice President. I think the article should be renamed "Vice Presidential vacancies" or similar. The creator of this article has mentioned their status as Acting Veep in the separate personal articles. I would mention "next in line" not "acting vice president". I'm sure if there was a Vice Presidential vacancy today, the media would be all over it. They already make a big deal about Pelosi being 2nd in line. Jjmillerhistorian 15:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to nominate this article for deletion, but the AFD instructions are too complicated for me. Maybe we should get an Administrator to put up the nomination. GoodDay 18:21, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I have nominated the article for deletion. Please make your comments known on the appropriate page. JasonCNJ 22:12, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How to understand this office

From the AFD discussion I believe people are getting hung up on the question of whether "Acting Vice President" was true in all Constitutional senses, such as deciding the tie vote. I think it's clear that the title was bestowed by the Senate and is specifically relevant to the role of the Pres. pro tem in Senate business and procedure, in addition to the Constitutionally-bestowed role of succeeding the President. In other words, the title refers to the President pro tem acting in the stead of the Vice President in his role as chair of the Senate. Obviously, this role remains important to the Senate even if the Speaker is now "next in line" to the Presidency.

The office does seem to have become markedly less prominent after the Succession Act of 1886. I haven't verified whether it has died out completely, yet; the only opportunity, short of something in the Senate rules (which no longer mention it, assuming they once did), was whether the Senate handled the matter when Reagan and Bush 43 had their surgeries and invoked the 25th Amendment to elevate their VPs to handling the duties of the P. Or, of course, should Cheney have that fifth heart attack (it's true, he's survived four). --Dhartung | Talk 23:16, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

It is not at all "clear" that this title was ever bestowed by the Senate. In fact, a search of the Congressional Record and the full text of every bill that has ever passed Congress revels 2 hits for the phrase "Acting Vice President," both of which are records of speeches, one by Robert Byrd (138 Cong Rec S 10316), and the other by Eleanor Norton Holmes (147 Cong Rec E 834), wherein they mentioned the title. There is NO RECORD of any vote, bill, proposal, etc., bestowing the title on anyone. This is, of course, in stark contrast to the office of "Acting President," which 1) is real, and 2) is contained in the Constitution. Cheers, JCO312 15:48, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, I've yet to see anyone show me where 'Acting Vice President' is mentioned in the US Constitution. As a verbal title, AVP is semi-accurate, the President pro tempore never had the power to cast a tie-breaking vote in the Senate. GoodDay 22:15, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

These are not assertions I have made, and I consider the question one of curiosity. I have said that it is clearly not a constitutional office and I don't see the relevance of not being able to cast a tie-breaking vote (although apparently participants in the Johnson impeachment thought it important enough to debate). As one step toward getting a more affirmative answer to the question of how the title came about and how it was used and viewed, I have written Sen. Byrd, in his capacity as the "memory of the Senate", for at the least research assistance. As to the points raised by JCO312, neither does the Constitution refer to an office known as "Acting President" as such: In case of the removal of the President from office, or of his death, resignation, or inability to discharge the powers and duties of the said office, the same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by law provide for the case of removal, death, resignation or inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what officer shall then act as President, and such officer shall act accordingly, until the disability be removed, or a President shall be elected. In fact, the first person to be "Acting President" famously struck out the "Acting" with his pen, and this has never been constitutionally challenged. Yet we have an article Acting President of the United States. --Dhartung | Talk 22:44, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I imagine JCO312 was referring to Section 3 of the 25th Amendment which says, "...such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President." Or perhaps Section 4 which says "the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President" and "[if Congress, by two-thirds vote, determines the President still incapacited] the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President."

The article Acting President of the United States refers specifically to the office as a creature of the Twenty-fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution. JasonCNJ 23:27, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I stand corrected, nevertheless, my point remains. The 25th amendment was not in effect during the historical period when "Acting Vice-President" was apparently in wider use.--Dhartung | Talk 17:47, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moved page

I've moved this page from 'Acting Vice President' to 'Acting Vice President of the United States'. This title is more accurate, for this article. GoodDay 23:03, 5 February 2007 (UTC)