Talk:2006 FIFA World Cup/Archive 6

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Archive 5

Created archive 5. sikander 16:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


Semi-protect

I think we should semi protect the page during game time, the other language sites semi-protect their pages all the time. Check this vandalism out [1], It wasn't corrected for 8 minutes. Pseudoanonymous 17:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't be so quick to judge...someone might not have realized Klose's goal total had already been updated from today's game.--128.205.153.176 17:22, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I myself have almost done the same thing, and I've never vandelized. But, the fact is, the article can't become semi-protected for more than a few minutes, it's agaist wikipedia policy... Tuvas 17:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Please see the two thousand other discussions about semi-protecting the page. Goodness you could go through every archive we've ever done and see that this discussion has taken place no less than 10 times. Each time it was decided that there should be no semi-protection during games! There were over 6000 edits to this page in June alone, if someone vandalizes the page then there are 10 people quickly there to change it right back. Many IP editors are here to do good, and they should not be punished simply because two or three people vandalize the page. Batman2005 18:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
2006 FIFA World Cup is the 20th most edited page. Rich Farmbrough 18:37 30 June 2006 (GMT).
A number of the IP editors will be regular, good faith editors and those that aren't are potentially regular, good faith editors. I would be opposed to any degree of protection as would many other editors. -- Alias Flood 18:46, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Rich Farmbrough, where's your source for that data ("20th most edited page")? Ian Manka Talk to me! 17:02, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

That would be: Articles with the most revisions.  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  17:55, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


Cool, didn't know this existed... :) Ian Manka Talk to me! 17:01, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


What's the point of having "semi-protected" tag on top of the page when the page itself is not semi-protected? That's confusing, dishonest and sending wrong kind of signals. 131.111.8.96 01:13, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Penalty shoot out

Details of how it works needed - 5 shots per team? If so what happens if a draw? Rich Farmbrough 17:26 30 June 2006 (GMT).

See Penalty shootout (football)--128.205.153.176 17:30, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
From the link above: If at the end of these five rounds of kicks the teams have scored an equal number of goals, sudden death rounds of one kick each are used until one side scores and the other does not. sikander 17:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Cheers. Rich Farmbrough 18:35 30 June 2006 (GMT).

Fight! Fight!? Fight?

Anyone know what prompted the fight on the field right after Germany won the match? It was one of the argentenian players vs a german assisstant coach... but why ? sikander 17:49, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I think Bierhoff got involved (he is some sort of a co-manager for the German team. TSO1D 17:50, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I thought they were after Klose, because he hurt Abbondanzieri. Either way bad sportsmanship. Or maybe a player from Germany teased Argentina players. "The Germany players celebrate their success - but there is a problem as the squads square up to each other on the pitch. In the chaos following Jens Lehmann's save, it seems someone from the Argentina camp may have swung a punch at a German player or official. Officials are trying their best to restore order. A dramatic game is ending in dramatic fashion." Pseudoanonymous 18:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I had heard it was because a German team member (not sure if it was a player or a coach) teased Heinze. Heinze is a Germanic sounding name, perhaps they teased him about being on the 'wrong' side? 69.158.140.48 21:37, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it was Oliver Bierhoff, and then Cufre got involved and kicked a German player, then Heinze reacted and so on... Bruno18 21:55, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

It all started during the penalty kick when Tim Borowski told Heinze to shush. One of the Argentinian players did something to Per Mertesacker. Kingjeff 22:01, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


According to press and TV it was like that: Argentinian players had shouted at Germans during the kicks, which was largely ignored, and only answered by the ultimate tease: scores and Lehmann saves. When Borowski had scored his (4-2), he made the "seal your lips" gesture towards them. After the last Argentinian failed, the losers attacked. Before the game, TV host Günther Netzer had predicted that they could not handle their emotions when being down or defeated. Cufre knocked over Mertesacker and kicked his thigh, cutting him with his studs, for which he was sent off. Maxi Rodriguez ran for several meters towards Schweinsteiger in order to try beating him from behind. Ayala shouted at Bierhoff. Hopefully, FIFA will take decisive care of the troublemakers - see Turkey. --Matthead 11:41, 1 July 2006 (UTC)


And they have. Frings will be suspended for the next game against Italy. It's like the saying goes, it takes two to tango. I'm not saying what the Argentineans did was right, in fact, i'm a little shamed by them and i think that cufre deserved that red card, but the Germans are also at fault. Try to look at the facts before you name-call and don't assume you know what happened. only part of the altercation was shown on tv, and more to the point, you were not there. we don't know the true story.

Referee controversies

Lots of referee mishaps, the latest one being a yellow card for Rodriguez of Argentina instead of a penalty shot, not to mention the hand ball in the box. Same goes for Ghana-Brazil, Australia, etc. Surprised no mention in the article so far? Marred just like Korea. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pawel z Niepolomic (talk • contribs) 13:31, 30 June 2006 (CST).

Rodriguez obviously dived. The ref was completely correct. -- Arwel (talk) 19:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Plus the hand ball in the box I assume you're talking about from when the Argentine goalkeeper was injured. If so, that was a ball to hand play and not a hand to ball, thus not a hand ball. --Rangers85 19:30, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
See 2006 FIFA World Cup controversies for "referee mishaps", among other controversies. -- Mareklug talk 14:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Final referee

Michel', who refereed today's Argentina-Germany game, is listed as the referee for the final. Can anyone confirm this? Is it vandalism? I didn't think they chose these things so far in advance. Moszczynski 19:26, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

You're right. I've removed the referee. [2] says final referee is not chosen yet. latest one i could find was [3]. sikander 19:40, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Heh, a little POV note here -- I sure hope it's not that referee. It could be just me, but he was /clearly/ favouring the Germans today -Tcwd 23:17, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Has to be false. FIFA announces referees three days before the match. Also, none of the twelve retained referees for the quarterfinals and beyond will do more than one game, so since Michel' has already done one, he can't referee the final. SanchonX

Word has it that Graham Poll will be back to be the referee! J/k Flyintothesky

Hey, maybe he could give out two red cards to the same player. He hasn't done that yet! Bootstoots 03:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

knockout stage

Does anyone see any reason why the schematic over the knockout stage should have been removed? See this edit. Otherwise I will incorporate it again. --Oden 21:01, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Total support from me. The knock-out draw was one of the best parts of the article and I have no idea why it was removed. -- EnemyOfTheState 21:02, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Please make the knockout stage content no. 6 again.

Yeah! Where is the bracket? I love it. If you don't put it back I'll include the one from my user page. Afonso Silva 21:07, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree the grid was one of the best things of the page. Also who keeps putting in Turkey as a contender???

Someone please put protection on the article because there are way too many IP's vandalizing or remove content.

NO! Batman2005 00:35, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

There are enough people watching it to revert vandalism. --Guinnog 00:41, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! Good lord how many times do people need to request protection only to have it denied? Batman2005 00:45, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

An ironic reponse..from a user who has his/her own user page protected. Pseudoanonymous 01:11, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

yeah, because people kept redirecting it to inappropriate pages. I didn't request protection, it was done by some admin guy. Now is it still ironic? Batman2005 01:36, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.29.255.133 (talk • contribs).

Goalscorers

Penalties scored in penalty shootouts don't count as goals. I checked the official website. I removed Borowski and Ballack from the Individual Scorers section. 87.4.198.24 12:53, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Good thinking! FordTuffinIt 18:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Listing every signle goalscorer is rediculous. This page is already quite long and full of tables. I suggest we trim it down to those who have two or more. --Robdurbar 22:28, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that only the remaining goalscorers should be listed. All goalscorers should be listed. It was fine before and it will be fine now. All players deserve the credit of their goal and any visitor in search of goalscorers should be able to know who have scored of the eliminated teams. Someone please revert this edit. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.121.167.188 (talk • contribs).

That's a major and really bad edit. Be thankful we've had lots of goals. Don't destroy the records.  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  23:34, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

No, I think it was good. Too much information can be bad. It is all still there in the history too of course. --Guinnog 23:37, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I reverted before I read your comment. All the other World Cups have full lists. This one shouldn't be different just because there's many on 1 goal.  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  23:40, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

A complete list is useful. Not only does it mean that we (Wikipedia) have a full and complete record of the event but it also means that other editors may refer to these articles when editing the bios of individual players. To score just one goal at a World Cup is a big thing worthy of inclusion. -- Alias Flood 01:55, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Ah well, I didn't realise that this had been done with all the other World Cups too. Personally I still believe its a little OTT, but if you want a page of lists.... --Robdurbar 08:23, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. --Guinnog 17:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
OK for the complete list but then Portuguese scorers with one goal should be listed.. Furthermore they still can score in future matches. Julien Tuerlinckx 22:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Editing

Can someone please put the editing on lock or something for this page? Some people can't handle the fact that Portugal won and keep editing the final brackets. Kazuhara 20:58, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeahh... read the top of the talk page, it's not going to happen no matter how many times we complain about it. ScottNak 21:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Infobox?

Where did teh infobox go? Can somebody please put it back.

Stadiums or stadia?

OED prefers stadiums for the buildings and stadia for the units of length... - Abscissa 07:39, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I changed stadia to stadiums - Stadia sounds obsolete as stadium has become native english word meriting standard plural s. - G3, 10:43, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree. --Guinnog 13:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Apparently someone didn't. I'll swap the stadia back to stadiums. If someone objects I'd like an explanation first. - G3, 17:04, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Agree per G3. - Abscissa 13:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Talking of balls

Taken from Archive 3
What's with these balls that the team captains are exchanging at e beginning of matches along with the usual FA pennants? Jooler 21:48, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Erm this answer is a bit late, but the balls say "UNITAID" on them, it is a international medicine purchasing scheme for developing countries. The ball exchange is to raise awareness for the charity. Fifaworldcup.com some other info – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 11:02, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Can we dedicate a section of this to all the riots?

--Greasysteve13 08:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd be opposed to this. The 1998 FIFA World Cup article doesn't contain any information on the far more significant trouble that took place then. I can't see anything in the appropriate category though that doesn't mean there shouldn't be something somewhere. I would not agree that the "riots" had been a particularly notable part of this tournament. MLA 10:25, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Oh okay.--Greasysteve13 03:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Good or Bad?

My idea about a white line in the bottom of {{footballbox}} has been removed. It is to difference between a match and the another. However, i still think this is good idea. But can someone comments about this idea? Aleenf1 07:02, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Countdown?

Hey! What about adding a time countdown to the next game? My simple mind has a hard time figuring out when the game will start, and a countdown would show an easy to read "1 hour to Next Match". This could be applied to all the games left or just the next game, because there is only one game at at time for now on.--200.82.238.132 15:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Seems a bit late in the day for that sort of addition, given that there's only three matches out of a total of sixty-four left to play.... ChrisTheDude 14:04, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Why did you take out the chart?

The chart showing the progression of the Cup was very useful. Why is it gone?? Moncrief 21:46, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

del Piero Goal..

The match report lists it at 121 minutes, so in stoppage time during extra time. The page that the match report links to [4] shows it as 121+ what to do? I'm a proponent of using the match reports, but also in uniformity with the other scores in stoppage time. What do you guys think? Batman2005 21:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

We've been doing the + for goals in stoppage time thus far this tournament, so having the + would create uniformity. --Rangers85 22:06, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
The match reports never use the + sign, but I think it's useful to show scores in stoppage time nevertheless. --Arkan5 22:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Indeed, esp. when the Official FIFA website also show the same thing.(w/"+" sign) --WinHunter (talk) 03:44, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Right. ESPN also used "121+" for del Pieros goal. - Kookykman|(t)e 13:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
However, that same site uses the notation 120+1' in the game highlights videos.BassoProfundo 15:37, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

The page has been vandalized (again). The following edits need to be reverted: edit 1 edit 2. One solution would be to go back to version by Shreshth91 and then add any subsequent changes. --Oden 21:50, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I reverted the damage to the last 16 section... someone else caught the other one... The 'see also', 'references' and 'external links' sections were also deleted, and I've reverted that... so I think it's all fixed now. Can anyone see anything that's been missed? --StuartBrady (Talk) 22:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC)


When will this page be open again? 200.121.41.208 00:56, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Active scorers

Unless someone gets injured or sent off in the last semi-final game, the active scorers WILL NOT CHANGE until the end of the tournement due to the third-place game. Just a reminder for those eager to remove the semi-finals losers. Pimlottc 22:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I've added extra comments so that nobody should be able to miss it, now... but I'm not sure what to do about France and Portugal. I think similar comments are needed in advance to stop this from happening again. --StuartBrady (Talk) 22:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I can't believe that even with the extra comments people are still changing the names. Bruno18 23:05, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, it's annoying. I'm not sure any amount of extra comments will stop some people. Right after the game ended, people were changing it as fast as we could change it back. --Rangers85 23:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
You can't actually see the warnings when reverting.  SLUMGUM  yap  stalk  23:27, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Hehe. Yeah, looks like I was wrong[5]. I might add some for France and Portugal, then hopefully nobody will make the mistake in the first place. Beyond that, there's not much we can do. --StuartBrady (Talk) 23:39, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Maybe try changing the comment to something like "DO NOT UNBOLD - Germany still has to play 3rd place final", "is not inactive" might be a bit vague. I know, that's not going to stop it either... :\ 151.41.219.159 23:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Already done, thanks to Marco bisello. --StuartBrady (Talk) 23:55, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Italy

Those bastard whops knew they didn't deserve to win. Those bastards were outplayed by Germany and knew they were beat by Australia. Kingjeff 22:06, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

That's real football. This match was amazing--Givern 22:15, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Trully amazing indeed. --webkid 22:57, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

We should have had a penalty shot in the 2nd half. Kingjeff 22:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey guys, Wikipedia is not a soapbox. Please keep comments to yourself about who should have won, what refereeing calls should have/could have been made, etc. Take these sorts of comments to a non-Wikipedia message board or other discussion forum. See: WP:NOT, WP:NPOV. Ian Manka Talk to me! 22:35, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
If you really want to talk to Wikipedia users about this, e-mail users directly. Thanks. Ian Manka Talk to me! 22:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

the comment of france not making finals yet is opinion based, and should be deleted LordCain 22:43, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Kingjeff has just been blocked for 24 hours for violation of the three revert rule - repeatedly trying to nominate Fabio Grosso for deletion. -- Arwel (talk) 22:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Civility anyone? I ask for the deletion of the offensive comments posted by the user that started this section. The fact this is a talk page doesn't allow people to childishly spew ethnic slurs. 82.53.168.93 00:26, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


Ma lol! krukkidimmerda rosicate! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.50.34.78 (talk • contribs) 01:17, 5 July 2006.

How could Italy win?!?! The odds were in Germany's favor. Now my Germany for 2006 World cup is wrong!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 152.163.100.6 (talk • contribs) 02:18, 5 July 2006.

Kingjeff should also be banned for the blatant racism too, totally unacceptable. - Deathrocker 02:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Totally agree with you, should be banned forever-I mean if he registrates with another name/nickname should be noticed and always deleted.

He says he is proud of being of aryan "race"- Sounds like that ridiculous guy with a ridiculous moustache-"hitler wasn't it?" ACamposPinho 0:05, 10 July 2006

Song played at the end of games

What was the symphonic-sounding anthem played at the end of today (Italy d. Germany)? It was at least played at the conclusion of France d. Spain as well. - Slow Graffiti 22:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

You'll Never Walk Alone? I was a bit surprised to see the German crowd singing along to that after the end of the match! -- Arwel (talk) 22:51, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
That's what I was told, but I can't really hear the lyrics (or main vocal melody) - just an epic-sounding orchestral melody. It doesn't sound like the recordings of the song I have, anyway. If that's it, whose recording is played? I know it's big in Liverpool. Is this a World Cup tradition I've missed, or something introduced this year? - Slow Graffiti 22:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I'd never heard it at the World Cup before tonight - it wasn't a vocal version, so not the Gerry Marsden version that Liverpool use. They've been using "Go West" a lot at this World Cup, but I don't think there are any WC musical traditions. Dario G's Carnaval de Paris is used fairly often - that was written for the '98 WC and contains snatches in the musical style of each of the qualified countries. -- Arwel (talk) 23:37, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
It sounds like the russian national anthem too me, but that would be sort of weird. 217.211.232.135 00:17, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
German language media identify it as You'll Never Walk Alone 85.178.121.138 04:46, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I think You'll Never Walk Alone was sung by the fans, but that's not the song I'm referring to (unless someone did a very different remake using the Russian national anthem melody). It sounds remarkably like the Russian national anthem, Hymn of the Russian Federation. I've watched my recording of today's game several times, but the announcers talking throughout the post game celebration as the song is playing, so it's hard to make out. Yet it doesn't sound exactly like it, even after combing through several recording of the anthem here. - Slow Graffiti 04:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Could be something from the Voices from the Fifa World Cup: the Official Album of the 2006 Fifa World Cup --Oden 02:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's similar to the Russian national anthem but not quite it. If you've been to a football match it would be the tune of "Stand up, for the champions" (repeat) or similar... Can't put my finger on the original tune though... – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 05:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
"Stand up, for the champions" or "Stand up, for the Engerland" (sic) or "1-nil to the Arsenal" etc is Go West (song) as mentioned before. I've been listening to the Baddiel and Skinner podcasts and they've been at various games. At the stadiums they are playing various traditional football songs (Three Lions for example) at half-time and after the match. At the end of the Germany-Italy game, the crowd definitely sang along to the Gerry & the Pacemakers version of You'll Never Walk Alone. I didn't hear any other song being played. Jooler 05:20, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
It was played over the arena a minute after Del Piero's goal while all of the players were still on the field. The meldoy is similar to the Pet Shop Boy's Go West (as well as the National Anthem), but it is definitely a symphonic performance. There are trumpets blaring and cymbals crashing; an operatic tenor voice hits and holds out the last note in dramatic fashion. I'm trying to get my video capture card working so I can get the audio clip from today's game. - Slow Graffiti 05:46, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Go West (song) says 'an orchestral version was adopted by FIFA as the official theme, entitled "Stand up", and performed by Patrizio Buanne' (an Italian baritone).. – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 06:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Aha!! - it is indeed - see [6] Jooler 06:30, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
you can listen to a few seconds - here Jooler 06:35, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, they were definitely playing the Gerry Marsden version of YNWA after the Portugal-France match tonight - the BBC were interviewing Marcel Desailly and Leonardo in the stadium with it going full-blast in the background! -- Arwel (talk) 21:07, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Individual scorers

Is there any particular reason we're not using {{flagicon|ENG}} for England? --StuartBrady (Talk) 01:33, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I changed it because {{flagicon|ENG}} was not bordered at that time and I didn't know if it's ok to change a template. There's no reason not to use it now as far as I can see. --Arkan5 12:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Why don't you just border it? - Kookykman|(t)e 13:24, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure how you'd do that with {{flagicon}}... but that can't be the right approach, as {{flagicon}} should work magically. --StuartBrady (Talk) 13:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Semi-protection, please?

Could an admin please semi-protect this? We're getting vandalism every few seconds. - Kookykman|(t)e

You'll need to request it at WP:RFPP -- Steel 13:35, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
And you'll need to look at the 25 other discussions about semi-protection on this page. God, don't you people read before you post something. Batman2005 13:40, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Do you read as well? :) "Please respect etiquette and assume good faith. Also be nice and remain civil." - Slow Graffiti 16:02, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Semi-protection is a good idea if the vandalism should become unmanageable. As it is now most of the vandalism is quite predictable (it usually occurs after one team loses) and there are enough eyes on this page to detect such changes reasoanbly quickly. --Oden 19:02, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Zinedine Zidane

Please realize that Zinedine Zidane has just scored his second goal of this Fifa World Cup and NOT his third.

So, will we ever find out what was said between Zidane and Materazzi? --Kimonandreou 22:11, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I think we might hear Zidane's version first and Materazzi's much later, but it doesn't matter. Zidane's act cannot be justified. I don't care if Materazzi's words included Zizou's mother, wife, or children. Some players can keep their cool when insulted, some not. It was also not the first incident of this kind in Zidane's career. In any case, this encyclopedia should not speculate on what Materazzi said. ChaChaFut 22:31, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Full Team Ranking

I'm glad to see the full team ranking so far for this cup. Is there a chance of doing it for the previous ones? 200.121.41.208 22:23, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

yea, I agree someone needs to do it for the previous tournaments as well
I just added this table to the 2002 cup. --Billdorr 03:11, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree, it looks nice. It'll be nice to have them on the articles of past tournaments. Edit: Just a minor suggestion: wouldn't be nicer to have a different color for the top four teams? The actual color is too bright and uncomfortable for the eyes when reading. Bruno18 03:23, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

The table is nonsense. It's comparing apples with oranges. See Talk:2006_FIFA_World_Cup/Archive_4#Full_Table Jooler 09:19, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Id on't think it was nonsense. Someone please revert the edit because I don't know how to revert an edit :( 200.60.106.3 12:39, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Nonsense is a bit of a strong word, but the table's not appropriate. It's the reason teams don't advance based on overall rankings, because it is very unfair to compare Ivory Coast's performance to, say, Switzerland's, when they had very different groups - in fact, I think the unfairness of having the best third-placed teams advance was one of the motivating factors behind expanding to 32. A table of all the teams is a curiosity, but I don't think it quite makes the encyclopedic relevance criterion.Moszczynski 13:45, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. The table is actually OR, which we don't use here. Stick to the official FIFA results and their own ranking system, which is dodgy enough! Please don't put it back again. --Guinnog 13:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I should point out that the table that was added to the 94 competition had different criteria to the FIFA rankings and consequently a different order. Jooler 13:58, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
What does OR stand for? --130.251.4.11 14:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Original Research, see WP:OR. --Guinnog 15:04, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. Please have a look at the discussion page about World Cup 2002 to see that this is not OR. --130.251.4.11 15:12, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Please see my reply there. Thanks. --Guinnog 15:17, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I have added it in a separate page, and updated the box at the bottom of the page.--Calippo 11:27, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

^That's a very good idea. If it could be done with the other cups it would be great. 200.121.41.208 21:04, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


The page should be deleted as WP:NOR. By what authority are you counting knockout games in the same manner as group games and awarding 3 points? Jooler 21:19, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Here we have a lot of original research - for example 1994 FIFA World Cup - Full Team Ranking - where someone has added a table ranking the teams using different criteria to that used elsewhere and consequently a different resultant order and on 1930 FIFA World Cup - Performance_of_teams, where someone has decided to award 2 points for a win! - in a knockout competition!! There were no points! - why not award 3 or 8 or 27 points for a win? The rankings are best consigned to the bin. Jooler 21:34, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I'd like a little clarification on what you mean about the 1994 table. I created it (as well as the 2002 and 1998 tables), and I used the same sorting criteria as the creator of the 2006 table did. The teams that played 3 games were assigned 17-32 by virtue of their finals records in the group stages, the teams knocked out in the 2nd round were then assigned 9-16 based on their aggregate results, and so on. As for your comment on the 2 points per win for whomever made the 1930 table, I'd like to point out that prior to 1994 2 points were given for a win in the group stages of the World Cup, so there was some precident to that individual's decision, and I very likely would have made the same one had I gone on to make tables pre-1994. As a final point in support of the tables existing (which admittedly seems to be something of a dead issue now), here in the US we've heard time and time again about how our national team finished "dead last" in 1998. Obviously some formal ranking of the teams in that tournament would had to be done by somebody to justify that the factual use of that statement. I believe ESPN even commented on France's "28th place" in 2002 at some point during the coverage of this year's cup. --Billdorr 23:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Incidently, for those of you who claim this all to be original research or apples and oranges or a statistical deception or whatever, I give you this PDF, a FIFA publication, ranking each team's final standing in each World Cup. I'm fine with omitting the WDL and goals scored and against and whatnot, but at the very least this info should be included for the tournaments since it has legitimate FIFA origins. --Billdorr 23:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

The rankings should be added for every edition then. Bruno18 23:23, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Bruno18. These should be added in a separate page for each cup if possible. The ranking of teams is important to determine how did they performe overall. 200.121.41.208 00:22, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
The 1994 table is in a different order to the one here -spicifically the positions or Argentina and Belgium at 10 and 11. You say "I'd like to point out that prior to 1994 2 points were given for a win in the group stages of the World Cup" - The 1930 competition didn't have groups! There are no points awarded in knockout competition. In 1930 it was only a knockout competition. Every competition with the exception of 1950 had a knockout stage. If you arbitrarily use your own point system you are making original research. Up until 1970 they didn't use goal difference in groups, so why include it? Putting goal difference on tables for those World Cups is once again original research. In the 1958 competition for they played play-offs when teams were drawn. Neither goal difference or goal average was of any consequence to whether a team would proceed or not. Using it is WP:OR. So those teams drawn had to play an extra game. How are you going to put that in a league table? Award an extra 2 points for the play-off? Count up the goals in the play-off and add them to the total? Whatever way you do it is original research. From 1962 to until 1970 the they used goal average to separate teams on the same points, not goal difference. Making use of goal differece for these competitions is original research. Jooler 08:25, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
ESPN talk about winning a game "1-nothing", "making the assist", "opening half", "offence" and other crap that are not part of normal football terminology, I'm not suprised by that (there's a parody of America soccer commentary here from the 2002 WC - but I'm afraid it's quite poorly done. It should be funny, but I think it's quite weak). The FIFA rankings in that PDF are currently under discussion on Talk:National team appearances in the FIFA World Cup and we are hoping to clarify what status this table has. There are various inconsistencies in the rankings, and the criteria used to calculate them are not supplied. Your tables are original research. Normally in knockout competitions, like the FA Cup, you highlight the round in which a team were knocked out. You don't award positions for the sake of it. Jooler 08:44, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Awards

I added an awards section for every world cup. I don't know if you like the format I have it in, but I do think it is important that we have these awards for each tournaments article. Let me know what you guys think, I think we should have the same awards for the 2006 article including the FIFA young player award. Squadoosh 07:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Lukas Podolski has been named Best Young Player, I've added him to the Awards section.
added all-star team
This information would be better placed at FIFA World Cup awards, then a "for more information on this topic..." type of thing to redirect the reader to the page already dedicated to WC awards. Batman2005 00:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
In some instances you are right, however it's not like it is clogging up the page or it is extraneous information. It is a competition, and once it is over one of the things people want to know is who performed the best and who won the awards.Squadoosh 05:28, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
But when you add this award, the all star team, the 4 or 5 other awards, it clogs to page. That's why the FIFA World Cup awards article was made. Batman2005 15:43, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't think so, I think adding every single player who scored a goal in the WC clogs the page more than the awards, but that stays. It's not big deal.Squadoosh 21:21, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
The point is that there is not a separate page for goal scorers, but there is for the awards section. Batman2005 01:25, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Aussie Vandalism

This page has been used by a small world to keep track of the games. Its shameful to see it open for vandals. Lock it, please.

Heathebe05 09:10, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

NO! There are about 30 discussions about this page being locked and it never works, read the page before posting new stuff people! Batman2005 18:20, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

BUT', if vandalism is a problem, then locking it might not be a bad thing irregardless of how many discussions. The fact that there are many discussions means that this might be a problem anyways. Kingjeff 20:31, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not though, I looked through the last 3 days of history and any vandalism was taken care of in an average of 3 minutes. This page is one of the most updated pages on the entire project right now and a great many of them are IP users, a lot of whom are adding constructively, there's no need to take that away from them. There are more than enough people here at present to deal with any vandalism that pops up. Batman2005 00:06, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

All European Final

It is the first all European World Cup Final since the 1982 final between West Germany and Italy. It is also the first all European semi finals since the same year where West Germany, Italy, Poland and France were in the semis.

A Well Deserved Thank You

As we near the end of the tournament I would like to express my gratitude for everyone who contributed to the speediness and accuracy of the updates. Keeping up with the action on the pitch as well as editing out all of the vandalism was certainly a challenge and I think the result of your diligence, patience and hard work has been fantastic! You've heard it before, maybe not often enough, and hopefully you'll hear it again, but from the bottom of my heart: Thank You Very Much! 3Phillips 21:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Excellent job everyone. sikander 05:33, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes the work done on this page and its sub-pages and Wikinews is probably the best independent source of information about this World Cup and this page alone has been receiving something like 500 edits a day, and comes up on Google searches within the top ten just below the Official FIFA sites all sorts of combinations of searches surrounding the World Cup, and yet, the bloody martinets who reign over what appears on WP:ITN and the rest of the front page, can't be bothererd to indicate this, or have a link here from the main page, and it's the bloody final today! Jooler 15:59, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Bravo to everyone. This article and the way it has been updated, expanded and improved during the contest has shown Wiki at its absolute best. Well done to all editors...what shall we all do before South Africa ?! =D doktorb wordsdeeds 16:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Tournament logo in bracket

I've added the tournament logo in the bracket. There was lots of empty white space in the top-left corner so I thought about adding the logo there. Comments ? sikander 05:34, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I have removed it, as purely decorative use of unfree images is not permitted by the fair use policy. Sorry! Oldelpaso 08:04, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Hmm ok, that's fine. sikander 14:28, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Penalties

I've taken this down as I didn't think it added to the article and makes the section harder to read. --Guinnog 09:52, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

It looks like we don't agree on anything... :). It is common, on italian newspapers, to indicate the goals scored on penalties as additional information. I think it could be interesting to know it, and few numbers in brackets do not affect readability (they were present in the Own Goal section and nobody has ever complaint about them).--130.251.4.11 10:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Own goals are different as they affect which team wins the game! There is always a tendency to over-edit and over-annotate information. You could have little symbols indicating if players scored in the first or second half, whether it was from open play or a set-piece, header or shot, etc. I would resist all such additions equally. Just the number of goals scored is fine with me, and of course the onus is on you to show a consensus in favour of including the info. Just because Italian newspapers do it this way is not a convincing argument to me. Sorry. --Guinnog 10:20, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm not saying that info about penalty has the same value as own goals. But it is relevant info anyways. It tells a lot about the scoring ability of a player "on the field". And the italian newspapers are just an example. If penalties have the same value as headers or free-kicks, why are they indicated in the match reports? Coherence would require to remove the (pen) tag there too. --Calippo 11:01, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
What is the meaning of the above statement (User's second edit)?--Calippo 12:53, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't agree with removing the (pen) tag from the match reports. The status quo seems just fine to me. --Guinnog 11:08, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't either. This shows that the info is relevant. --Calippo 11:12, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Sure, it's fine in the match reports, but I don't think we need it in the list. --Guinnog 13:12, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Can please someone else express his opinion about this? So far this "poll" is 50%-50% :)--Calippo 13:41, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I think including the number of penalties scored by each player would help slightly... but that's as far as it should go. I can see the other side of the argument, though. --StuartBrady (Talk) 14:59, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't think they should be included at all, leave them in the match box where they belong, but don't put them in brackets or anything in the "Individual Scorers" section. That section should be only for goals that count towards the actual tally of goals, not penalty shootout scores. If we're talking about goals during the run of play that came from the penalty spot I still see no need to distinguish that on the scorers list. What's next? putting another set of brackets for goals scored on free kicks? or headers? Just leave it was the total goals scored. Batman2005 00:02, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
I totally agree. --Guinnog 20:35, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
I think we knew that, already! Anyway, the issue's settled. One thing though — the "own goals" section had the number of own goals scored by each player in brackets, but the section was renamed to "1 own goal". Shouldn't that change be reverted, too? --StuartBrady (Talk) 20:57, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

The MasterCard All-Star Squad

Should this be added to the awards?

Goalkeepers: Gianluigi Buffon (Italy), Jens Lehmann (Germany), Ricardo (Portugal).

Defenders: Roberto Ayala (Argentina), John Terry (England), Lilian Thuram (France), Philipp Lahm (Germany), Fabio Cannavaro (Italy), Gianluca Zambrotta (Italy), Ricardo Carvalho (Portugal).

Midfielders: Ze Roberto (Brazil), Patrick Vieira (France), Zinedine Zidane (France), Michael Ballack (Germany), Andrea Pirlo (Italy), Gennaro Gattuso (Italy), Luis Figo (Portugal), Maniche (Portugal).

Strikers: Hernan Crespo (Argentina), Thierry Henry (France), Miroslav Klose (Germany), Francesco Totti (Italy), Luca Toni (Italy).

got it from here[7]


I think it should be included on the FIFA World Cup awards page as it would then be included with all the past awards. Then on this page we could put something that directs the user to that page for more information. Similar to what we've done with the "Squads" listing. Batman2005 00:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
The squads list I understand but the all-star team takes up only about 10 lines and is much more important, IMO. Squadoosh 21:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
The all-star team is more important to the tournament than the squads? Without the squads there'd be no tournament! There is an awards page specifically for this information, why are we double posting it? Batman2005 03:22, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Well so far you are the only one that has objected. I say keep it. Squadoosh 19:00, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't really care if it stays but why were some of the players changed? Is it the favourite squad of one editor now? --Arkan5 19:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Golden Flipper

If there was a Golden Flipper or Golden Swimming Cap, I think Cristiano Ronaldo would have won it. He's a disgrace. Jooler 19:53, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I couldnt agree more. I think young ronaldo had the pitch confused with a swimming pool. 71.254.210.160

Ach, he's not the only player we've seen diving in the tournament. And at least he didn't stamp on anybody's goolies in front of the ref, like some I could mention! Now, enough of this idle chat and let's get on with something encyclopedic. --Guinnog 21:46, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
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