Talk:1974
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[edit] page layout years
There is a discussion on my talk page on page layout.
For most of the last three hundred years there is inconsistency and duplication between the year in topic paragraph, the "see also" box and what is on the year by topic pages. Prior to 1950 I am pretty convinced we can painlessly (except for sore fingers) delete all of the year in topic paragraphs and ensure that the material goes into a "see also" box, creating such a box where none exists. Post 1950, particularly from the "year in US television" link a lot of material has been added to this paragraph as highlights (sometimes making up most of the page content pointed at).
Personally I think we should still delete the paragraph, keep the box linking to the topic sites and move any particularly important parts of the year in topic paragraph to the main chronological list. This does involve undoing quite a bit of work which someone has done.
Therefore, unlike for prior to 1950 (where I've said no objection= I do it) for post 1950 I won't touch these pages unless a significant number of people agree with the change. (I am also unlikely to get the pre 1950 stuff done before summer unless the service speed improves dramatically).
talk--BozMo 14:00, 7 May 2004 (UTC)
[edit] August 9, 1974
Did Ford become President when he took the oath of office? or did he become President, when Nixon's resignation took effect? GoodDay 01:39, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- The 25th Amendment sections 3 & 4, deals with Presidential incapacity - the VP assumes only the presidential powers & duties as Acting President (doesn't take the oath). GoodDay 01:40, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- Ford became "Acting President" until he took the oath. --DavidShankBone 01:47, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
That's incapacity. For a person to assume the "Office of President" Article 2 clearly states they must take the office. For a person to be "President of the United States", regardless of the circumstances, they must take the oath. --DavidShankBone 01:46, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- I think much of your confusion regarding succession and incapacity might be answered here: Line_of_succession_to_the_US_presidency. --DavidShankBone 01:49, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- That article includes this historical bit: On March 4, 1849, James Polk's presidency ended on a Sunday. President-elect Zachary Taylor declined to be sworn in on a Sunday, citing religious beliefs. Some believe that Senate President pro-tempore David Rice Atchison was President for the day. However, most historians and constitutional scholars state that the Presidency is not dependent on the swearing-in
- Better still, Atchinson's tenure as Sente president-pro-tempre ended when President Polk's term ended. Also at this point, there's no Speaker as well. Under the 1792 succession Act (then in effect), nobody assumed the presidential duties. That don't seem correct. GoodDay 02:16, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- Hmm; the oath makes the President (as Article II spells out), causes potential disasters - concering a comatose President-elect, who dosen't recover by Inauguration date. GoodDay 02:06, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- Not really. Regardless of what happens before, whoever eventually assumes the title of President (vs. President-elect or Acting President) must take the oath. That much is clear. Your questions relate to succession issues. That said, the uncited remark in the WP article states most scholars and historians agree with your viewpoint; however, WP isn't a place for theoretical banter. The Constitution says what it says. But kudos to you for seeing a fly in the Constitutional ointment that has never been tested. Still, the oath is required per Article II. --DavidShankBone 02:19, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- We're still left with the situation concerning Nixon/Ford. During the roughly 15 to 30 minutes (not sure of exact lapse of time, between Nixon's resignation & Ford's repeating the Presidential oath of office) was the Presidency vacant? And if it was, then the Presidency was vacant numerous times (for few minutes), throughout it's history. PS- here's another monkey wrench, the incoming VP is always sworn in before the incoming President. GoodDay 02:35, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- No, the Presidency wasn't vacant, the VP is acting President until he takes the oath. He is the one making the decisions until he officially takes the oath of office, accepting full responsibility under the Constitution. It's that simple. There actually is a limbo, of sorts, with the U.S. Presidency. But, for our purposes here, the oath makes a person the official President. I think if you have any further question as to this, you should raise on the succession page, et. al., which have been referenced here. 1974 isn't the proper place to debate this minutia, although as a law student I find it as interesting as you apparently do. --DavidShankBone 02:40, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- According to Article II (as you've pointed out, earlier), A person doesn't become President until he/she takes the oath. That means the Presidency was vacant, from Nixon resignation (Noon -Aug 9), 'til Vice President Ford took the presidential oath (Minutes later). There's no way around it. As for Acting President? That would need an invocation of the 25th Amendment. GoodDay 02:52, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- I don't really understand your issue at this point. Are we talking official capacity, or are we talking realistic decision-making capacity. Regardless, the VP doesn't become the P until he takes the oath, which was the original question. Period. And that was, in fact, the question at hand, right? --DavidShankBone 03:02, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- My contention continues to be, at Noon EST (when Nixon resignation took effect) Ford became President, then minutes later took his oath. Your view is (correct me if I'm wrong) the moment Nixon's resignation took effect VP Ford figuratively assumed the presidential powers & duties not the Presidency itself? PS- I've added a compromise edit to this page. How do you like it?GoodDay 03:24, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- No, the Presidency wasn't vacant, the VP is acting President until he takes the oath. He is the one making the decisions until he officially takes the oath of office, accepting full responsibility under the Constitution. It's that simple. There actually is a limbo, of sorts, with the U.S. Presidency. But, for our purposes here, the oath makes a person the official President. I think if you have any further question as to this, you should raise on the succession page, et. al., which have been referenced here. 1974 isn't the proper place to debate this minutia, although as a law student I find it as interesting as you apparently do. --DavidShankBone 02:40, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- We're still left with the situation concerning Nixon/Ford. During the roughly 15 to 30 minutes (not sure of exact lapse of time, between Nixon's resignation & Ford's repeating the Presidential oath of office) was the Presidency vacant? And if it was, then the Presidency was vacant numerous times (for few minutes), throughout it's history. PS- here's another monkey wrench, the incoming VP is always sworn in before the incoming President. GoodDay 02:35, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
- I've also brought this topic to talk: President of the United States oath of office. I'm hoping others will join in this topic discussion. GoodDay 03:34, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
