User talk:190.39.198.96

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).

Contents

[edit] Welcome

Hello, 190.39.198.96, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.

Arbo talk 16:31, 23 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Addition to Description of the typecasting process section bucks scope of section

Dear 190.39.198.96, your addition (reposted below) to Typography lies outside the scope of the section, A brief description of the type casting process, the text of which is concerned with type casting, but not punchcutting or compositing. That stuff belongs in Typesetting, Sort (typesetting), and punchcutting.

The first step is to convey the inner spaces of the letter (known as the counters) by means of engraving tools, onto one end of a rectangular steel bar, which is then hardened by tempering. This bar is the counterpunch, which is used to strike a similar rectangular steel bar to produce the punch. Once the inner spaces have been transferred onto the punch, the rest of the characters features are completed, again by the use of engraving tools. Smoke proofs (made by depositing carbon onto the punch using a candle flame) are used to verify the progress of the engraving process.
This punch is then used to strike a blank die of a softer metal, such as copper or bronze to make a negative letter mould, called a matrix.
Thus, one counterpunch, one punch and one or more matrices are produced for every letter or glyph in the fount or font.
The matrix is then inserted into the bottom of the hand mould, which is then clamped shut and molten type metal alloy (consisting of basically of lead, tin and antimony) is poured into a cavity from the top.
When the type metal has cooled somewhat, the hand mould is opened and the cast rectangular block, approximately 4 centimeters long, consisting of the tang and the sort, extracted.
The tang is later removed so the character makes type height and remelted. The different sorts can then be assembled into words and lines of text in a composing stick and tightly bound together to make up a page image called a forme, where all the letter faces exactly are type high (the same height, approximately 0.918 inches) to form an even printable surface of type. The forme is mounted on a press, inked and impressions made on paper to form the basis of letterpress printing.

I've snipped the text out and preserved it here, and reverted the article text back to the previous version.

Arbo talk 16:31, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear James,
Please excuse my momentary surge of enthusiasm, but I did read the section title properly, thus believe that your reason to reverse edit the changes I volunteered, highlights the very inconsistency that motivated these changes in the first place.
I would suggest that you consider that the actual type casting process does not start with the production of counterpunches, punches and matrixes, but with the configuration of the mould itself, basically because very different types of personnel would be involved.
The earliest work (in English), that I am aware of, that refers to this process is Moxon's Mechanick Exercises, whose descriptions, despite allusions to the contrary, point in this direction.
Perhaps you might like to divide this section into two separate ones covering type design and type casting and then flesh them out accordingly to bypass the aforementioned inconsistency. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 190.39.198.96 Please sign your comments on talk pages by typing four tildes. For a registered user this will automatically print your user name and the date.
...believe that your reason to reverse edit the changes I volunteered, highlights the very inconsistency that motivated these changes in the first place...
I've removed the info on compositing from the restored original draft. Your edit exacerbated that problem by introducing info on the of production of counterpunches, punches, matrices.
...I would suggest that you consider that the actual type casting process does not start with the production of counterpunches, punches and matrixes...
It was you who added info on the production of counterpunches, punches and matrices. (plural of matrix is "matrices"). That's why I removed that info. The section originally opened with a brief intro to Gutenberg and his familiarity with letter punches and casting from matrices, included only to make the description of typecasting comprehensible..
..Perhaps you might like to divide this section into two separate ones covering type design and type casting and then flesh them out accordingly to bypass the aforementioned inconsistency...
No, it's fine as it is now. The history does not extend to covering Type design—at present is a stub requiring expansion into a full article. The nearest thing we've got is Punchcutting. Please put your info into Punchcutting, Type design, Typesetting or Johannes Gutenberg.
The complete Typography article is now larger than WP recommended maximum size, and as per another editor's suggestion the whole history section is about to be broken out into a new article, the History of typography.
Please do not twist reality, and please sign your comments on talk pages.
Best regards, Arbo talk 04:53, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
By the way, I do value your contribution(s). They're easily worth a Gentium Pilcrow Award. So thanks! We just have to put your work into the right articles. Don't be discouraged by bold editorial descision (mine).
Arbo talk 05:46, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
I've moved the history section to its new location History of typography, and moved your contributions and our talk from Talk:Typography to Talk:History of typography.
Arbo talk 15:52, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

I've rewritten 190.39.198.96's material to conform with the Wikipedia Style Manual recommendations on writing.

[edit] Punchcutting stage

If the glyph design includes enclosed spaces, (counters) a counterpunch is made. The counter shapes are transferred in relief (cameo) onto the end of a rectangular bar of mild steel using a specialized engraving tool called a graver. The finished counterpunch is hardened by heating and quenching (tempering), or exposure to a cyanide solution (case hardening).

The counterpunch is then struck against the end of a similar rectangular steel bar—the letterpunch—to impress the counter shapes as recessed spaces (intaglio). The outer profile of the glyph is completed by scraping away with a graver the material outside the counter spaces, leaving only the stroke or lines of the glyph. Progress toward the finished design is checked by successive smoke proofs; temporal prints made from a thin coating of carbon deposited on the punch surface by a candle flame. The finished letterpunch is finally hardened to withstand the rigors of reproduction by striking.

One counterpunch and one letterpunch are produced for every letter or glyph making up a complete font.

[edit] Matrix stage

The letterpunch is used to strike a blank die of soft metal to make a negative letter mould, called a matrix.

[edit] Casting stage

The matrix is inserted into the bottom of a device called a hand mould. The mould is clamped shut and molten type metal alloy consisting mostly of lead and tin, with a small amount of antimony for hardening, is poured into a cavity from the top. When the type metal has sufficiently cooled the mould is unlocked and a rectangular block approximately 4 centimeters long, called a sort, extracted. Excess casting on the end of the sort, called the tang, is later removed to make the sort the precise height required for printing, known as "type height", approximately 0.918 inches.

[edit] Typesetting

Sorts are assembled into words and lines of text with the aid of a composing stick, and the whole assembly is tightly bound together to make up a page image called a forme, where all letter faces are exactly the same height to form a flat surface of type. The forme is mounted on a printing press, a thin coating of viscous ink is applied and impressions made on paper under great pressure in the press.

Commentary on the differences between the original and the rewrite:

  • Make descriptions specific. Typefounding isn't as demanding as rocket science, but is a precise craft with exacting requirements and its own idiom. When adapting an existing description that comes with specific terminology, avoid changing the terminology unless you've found legitimate alternative terms by researching the subject in authorative print references.
  • Hand moulds lock and unlock, they do not "open" or "close".
  • The "engraving tool" has a specific name, graver.
  • "punch" should be called letterpunch for clarity and relevance.
  • Casual words and expressions like "somewhat", "thus" and "basically" are not elements of encyclopedic writing and have no place in Wikipedia. In most but not all instances "thus" is a redundant expression.
  • Avoid giving two forms of one word when one does the job. For example, "...for every letter or glyph in the fount or font..."; "letter or glyph" is neccessary to descriptions of fonts because they're made of glyphs, some of which are letters and others not. Whereas "fount or font" perpetuates the outdated term "fount", the extra term complicating the sentence. The Wikipedia style guide stresses the use of plain language and the most commonly used names at the present moment. You may have a personal liking for "fount", but the bulk of the rest of the world says "font", and considers "fount" an anachronism.

Arbo talk 13:44, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello James

Since beginning a cursory review of the articles relating to typography, I seem to have stumbled upon a slight problem.

In the course of preparing an article on type metal, to which various references appear in other articles, these all point to the punchcutting article, which surely is not appropriate.

Sorry to bother you with this, but since I'm not overly expert in wikipedia matters, I'd like to know if you can help me do something about this?

Thanks anyway, I think I've found it, never mind ... still fumbling a bit.

190.39.198.96 21:22, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:James_Arboghast"

Point me to whatever problems you're having and I'm happy to solve them for you. The passage above describing the steps from punchcutting to binding type in a forme can go into punchcutting any time, and the article can become citable by including the following references from History of typography:
  • Moxon's Mechanick Exercises
  • Man, John The Gutenberg Revolution: The story of a genius that changed the world (c) 2002
  • Burke, James The Day the Universe Changed (c) 1985,
Arbo talk 15:31, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../1/9/0/User_talk%7E190.39.198.96.html"