Talk:Zion National Park

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Zion National Park is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do.

Zion National Park appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 2, 2006.

This article is part of WikiProject Protected Areas, a WikiProject related to national parks and other protected areas worldwide. It may include the protected area infobox.

This article is part of WikiProject Utah, a WikiProject related to the U.S. state of Utah.

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Contents 1 Native American / Mormon Pioneer Interactions 2 Trails 3 Nearest city 4 AD & BC or CE & BCE 5 Would anyone like to add this link? 6 Image layout

[edit] Native American / Mormon Pioneer Interactions

I took this out:

More settlers moved into the canyon and improved its ability to serve their needs. Cattle and other domesticated animals, however, pushed out wild game and depleted native grasses. This made conditions worse for the Parrusits still living in the area (whose numbers had been greatly reduced by disease and slavery under the Spanish in the 18th century). In time, their numbers decreased to almost zero as the remaining inhabitants migrated to less-crowded lands south and were culturally assimilated. The canyon was farmed until it was protected in 1909.

because while generally true, it does not actually apply to places inside the boundary of the Park, which were NOT habituated by the Piutes at the time the settlers got there. The canyon WAS farmed, but only very small parts of it. Ratagonia 05:22, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trails

Thirty years ago I walked for a few days through the Zion National Park.

Some of the trails were cut into the sides of cliffs and it was my information that these trails had been constructed through make-work projects during the Depression.

This is not mentioned in the article though. I think it ought to be - if my memory is not playing tricks. I did a bit of googling but couldn't find anything on it. - Pepper 150.203.2.85 04:57, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

In all liklihood, the Civilian Conservation Corps did the work in the early to mid Thirties.--MONGO 14:04, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

ANSWER: the main trails were built in 1925 and 1926, long before the depression. Source: A History of Southern Utah and its National Parks, Angus Woodbury, 1950 (Utah State Historical Society, Vol XII, nos 3-4, July-October 1944 - revised and reprinted 1950 (no publisher noted, probably USHS)). Ratagonia 05:07, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Q: While hiking the observation point trail we noticed several inscriptions in the cement.. they often showed an eagle, initials (which I can't recall anymore) and had the date 1975. perhaps the year it was paved? - Kflorence 08:58, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

ANS: the concrete on the trails needs continual maintenance. Trail crews are composed of generally youthful members who have a sense of humor, and may trace, draw or write an assortment of things into the wet cement. Ratagonia 05:07, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

The initials carved on the Observation Point trail are 'SCA', and they appear with both the dates 1975 and 1976. My hiking partner there last Friday thought they might stand for the Southwestern Conservation Alliance, but that's just a guess! Mperrin 02:58, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nearest city

I wonder if the nearest city in the infobox should be changed from Springdale, UT to St. George, UT with the justification that St. George (with scheduled airline service) is more correctly classed as a city. The respective articles make this distinction. Walter Siegmund (talk) 10:53, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

The red dot on my browser is now partly in Arizona...I also agree that St. George is the closest "city".--MONGO 14:02, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

That is an interesting point. I've been putting the center of the dot at the location of the protected area. Because the dot is quite large, much larger than the protected area in this case, it extends well beyond the boarders of the National Park into Arizona. That doesn't bother me, but I can understand that it may bother some people. I think it is going to happen occasionally if the center of the dot is placed at the location of the protected area. See Devils Tower National Monument and Tule Lake National Wildlife Refuge for other examples.

Alternatives:

• Place the center of the dot at the location of the protected area. Exception: if it would cross a state boundary and the protected area does not, then move the center of the dot directly away from the state boundary until the dot no longer overlaps the state line. I fear this would lead to inconsistency.
• Place the dot as seems best to the editor as long as the protected area is completely contained within the dot boundaries. This might lead to arguments between editors or require adjustments if the dot diameter were decreased.
• Decrease the dot size. This doesn't eliminate the problem but does mitigate it. The disadvantage is that the dot may be harder to see, especially for the visually impaired.

I'd like to place a copy of the relevant portions of this discussion on the protected areas wikiproject talk page, if no one objects. Walter Siegmund (talk) 17:15, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AD & BC or CE & BCE

From 16:21 to 16:25 GMT on the 2nd of March 2006 User:Geoffrey Pruitt edits the article. He changes AD & BC to CE & BCE. Geoffrey, you missed one but the point is are you justified in doing this? Wikipedia's manual of style would suggest that you are not. The manual shows no preference for either form. Nor have I any strong preference for either I'm just not keen on seeing unjustified edits that could potentially start off an edit war. Jimp 04:34, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

• Common practice is to go with whatever the original author used. Since that was me, we should go with CE/BCE. --mav 17:50, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Would anyone like to add this link?

I spent nearly two weeks working on a virtual tour of Zion National Park which includes over 4,000 images. There is a user with a big stick who thinks I shouldn't put the link in here, so would someone else care to? It is at http://www.UntraveledRoad.com/Zion-National-Park.htm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by KelvinSmith (talk • contribs).

Note user's spam campaign in his contribution history, as well as talk page discussions. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 22:45, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image layout

Can someone move the image in the lead to a better place in the article? It looks a bit messy where it currently is. Also, should we have the images alternate left and right, rather than the somewhat random placement we currently have? --Lethargy 23:56, 19 September 2006 (UTC)