User talk:Zerida

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[edit] hey

whats up? do you think i am doing ok with the Egyptian Arabic Swadesh list? and im really curious where do people use the demonstrative /dukha/? Cass-bot

Egypt is treating me well. /dukha/ an influence from Coptic whoa that’s interesting, just a question is it /dukha l-walad/ or /il-walad dukha/?. i've heard dawwat, diyyat and doolat used a lot. I was just thinking we should probably get a more dialectal text example for the main page. do you have any ideas? play script? movie script? political cartoon? everyday conversation? tell me what you think. Cass-bot

[edit] Thank you for references

Thank you for providing the ref.s on Egyptian Arabic talk-page; I appreciate it really. Also, today is "Sham el-Neseem"; felicitations; I hope you'll enjoy the bright morning and day.
Best, Maysara 08:32, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ...the gods themselves contend in vain.

Hello again. I've noticed a lot of activity on the Egyptian Arabic talk page but haven't taken time to look at it until today. I feel really bad that you have had to take on this Dr amr character alone. It would probably be pointless to join in, since this is an issue "for Arabs and Egyptians only." Just wanted to thank you for fighting the good fight. Against stupidity... RJCraig 08:33, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello again (again). I have a question totally unrelated to Egyptian Arabic; OK to ask?

On a bulletin board site I have been reading recently, someone (of uncertain provenance) has been posting about Faṣiiḥ, extolling its virtues compared to venacular forms of the language. I know only a very little about the native grammatical tradition but am aware of the veneration accorded the classical language as recorded in the Qur'an. But is this "super-adoration" of Faṣiiḥ common in the Arab world? (Forgive me for asking a probably stupid question!) RJCraig 11:53, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not a stupid question, but it's important not to generalize because this varies significantly from country to country. The word you're looking for BTW is Fuṣḥa, which is the Standard/Classical variety of Arabic. Arabic-speaking countries use this language for most written literature as they generally tend to consider it "proper Arabic". But as I mentioned, this varies widely. In Syria, the birthplace of Arab nationalism, there is zero interest in the vernacular as far as I can tell, which may explain why there is no article to date on Syrian Arabic. Egypt, the country I'm most familiar with, exhibits a healthier attitude toward its spoken language, though not on an official level. When asked whether they preferred Egyptian Arabic, Fuṣḥa or both, 68% of respondents in Haeri (1996) [1] reported that they preferred Egyptian. This article [2] is about the local reaction to a Moroccan novelist who chooses to write in his native Darija. It talks about the classical-vernacular dichotomy in Morocco in good detail. — [ziʔɾɪdəʰ] · t 05:04, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for replying; I'll have a look at that article. The person in question insists on praising "Faseeh", and describes it as the "true language spoken by the Bedouins." He claims that whenever a tribe of Bedouins meets people who speak another language, the Bedouins absorb the nouns (why just the nouns I have no idea) used by those people, enriching Faseeh in the process. A speaker of Faseeh is automatically more eloquent and facile at the creation of poetry than a speaker of Arabic (especially a city-dwelling one). Whenever Arab grammarians disagree, they have only to ask a "12-year-old child" to resolve the conflict, since Faseeh children are incapable of grammatical error. And more of the same.

Does any of this ring any bells? (I'm starting to think "escapee from a happy farm somewhere", to be honest.) RJCraig 20:49, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not that familiar with Classical Arabic, but I do know that medieval Arabic grammarians considered the Bedouin idiom the most "accurate" or "pure" form of the language. Some contemporary Bedouin dialects are more conservative and have preserved many classical features that were either lost or never incorporated into the urban Arabic vernaculars that came about with the spread of Islam. — [ziʔɾɪdəʰ] · t 23:57, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ... Egyptian Arabic !

See my talk if you please. --Sibahi_talk 10:34, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Would appreciate ur views!

On what I added to the Egyptian Arabic discussion however unprofessional they may seem. And any assistance with locating a list with the words derived from other languages. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zakaria mohyeldin (talk • contribs).

[edit] Cairo University

Hi, Zerida. From other pages I've seen, it's customary to include notable alumni. Why should Cairo University be any different? Jessesamuel 23:27, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Saad Zaghlul

Bonjour. Je voulais vous remercier pour votre correction sur l'article de Saad Zaghlul. Cordialement. --Shaolin128 19:14, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] White and Egyptians

I added Egyptians to the White template because they're White on the 2000-2010 US Census. I know there is debate over this classification, but why should they not be in the template?--Dark Tichondrias

I don't think it's at all appropriate to include Egyptians in a list of "White Americans", the US census notwithstanding. Hispanics are far more likely to pass for "white" than Egyptians, but the former are not classified as such. Most Egyptian Americans would not consider themselves as "White", so self-identification should be taken into account. — [ziʔɾɪdəʰ] · t 00:04, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Egyptian Americans should ban together and tell the Office of Management and Budget they are not White if that is their majority opinion. The 2000 US Census asked people what they wanted to be. Apparantly most Egyptians or North Africans (whichever group they asked) were okay being Whites. The US Census Bureau changes its definitions by individual group's self-definition. --Dark Tichondrias

I do not see any evidence for an application process to change an entire ethnic group's race on the www.census.gov site. How would they decide who was the legitimate representative of an ethnic group anyway? This is exactly the kind of controversy that the individual self-identification policy tries to avoid. You can ask them questions at [3]

The Census Bureau does not require that Egyptian Americans identify as a particular race, nor does it appear to normalize Egyptian Americans' race to "White" from self-reported race. [4] says: In Census 2000, the vast majority of Arabs reported their race as White and no other race (80 percent), or as Two or more races (17 percent).25 Small proportions reported a single race of Black (1.1 percent), Asian (0.7 percent), American Indian and Alaska Native (0.07 percent), Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander (0.03 percent), or Some other race (1.0 percent). In addition, 3.2 percent of the Arab population reported as Hispanic (of any race). --JWB 06:40, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

The US government has long considered anyone of North African or Middle Eastern descent to be "White/Caucasian". A person who writes Egyptian in entries re. ethnic origin is automatically considered White. People who check "Other" and write Egyptian are still counted as White. Many forms specifically ask people of NA/ME descent to check White/Caucasian for "race". It's highly misleading and forces people to choose something they otherwise would not identify with. A Nubian-Egyptian man once sued the US government to have "White" removed from his immigration documents. By the same token, the US Census considers Egyptian and Berber Americans as "Arabs", even though most Berbers and many Egyptians would object to this classification quite as much. At any rate, the Census Bureau is not an authority on these matters. — [ziʔɾɪdəʰ] · t 00:49, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I added some of your comments above to White (people)#North African and Middle Eastern Americans. By the way, are you saying that a respondent who checks Egyptian ancestry and some race other than White/Caucasian would still be counted as White/Caucasian? --JWB 18:01, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I talked to an anthropologist who was among a team who designed the US 2000 Census. He said individuals could mark whatever they want, but the formal definitions are defined by majority self-definition.

I was planning on making a template for Middle Eastern Americans which would only include Middle Eastern Americans. Do Egyptian Americans identify as Middle Eastern or North African commonly enough to add them in this proposed template? --Dark Tichondrias

Yes to both. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · t 03:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Egyptian Fellah

You said its more representative of the population? how? Egyptians arent black? YungMike513

[edit] leave a message code

o yea thanks for the leave a message code :) YungMike513 19:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pics

No, because the percentage of Egyptians who actually know anything about Egyptian folk music pales in comparison with those who know and are influenced everyday by Amr Diab and Youssra. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Johndoe0307 (talk • contribs).

Fine. You want to go with the Youssra one, and remove Amr Diab? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Johndoe0307 (talk • contribs).

The thing is, while reading this article, I feel like it makes Egypt look a nation of fellahin, while forgetting that the vast majority of the population is very urban.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Johndoe0307 (talk • contribs).

I'll do my best when I have some free time on my hand.

Thanks for talking this through. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Johndoe0307 (talk • contribs).

Can you link the Ruby picture to Ruby (Egyptian Singer) Article? I can't link it with this article, and instead end up with linking it to the stone. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Johndoe0307 (talk • contribs).

I fixed it, thanks for letting me know. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · t 17:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article on Sadate

I am the one who, on May, 14, made the correction on the Sadate article by deleting the words stating that Boutros-Ghali was wounded at the military parade during which Sadate and others where killed in October 1981.

I did it ( and this was my first contribution to Wikipedia ) because I had just read a book ( published in France by Editions Complexe – title : “ Soixante ans de conflit israélo-arabe ” ), where Boutros-Ghali and Shimon Peres ( Israeli former Foreign Affairs and Prime Minister ) exchange ( opposed ) views on the Israeli-Arab conflict.

On page 207, Boutros Ghali states explicitly that he was in Alexandria on the fatal day, that he was called back to Cairo and only then and there was he told about Sadate’s death.

This being a first-hand source ( and the book in itself is a must-read for anyone interested in the subject ), I corrected the article.

Was there any specific reason for your reversion ?

Sincerely,

Gilles ( my first name )

--Gillesjouvenet 01:27, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Oops, I apologize about that! I went back to see what I did, and saw that another anonymous editor had vandalized the page after your edit, so I may have assumed that yours was blanking vandalism. Thanks for the info and welcome to Wikipedia. Please, feel free to make any improvements you believe are appropriate. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · t 04:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your swift reaction and your welcoming me to Wikipedia.

It is indeed a marvelous tool for sharing knowledge, despite the scourge of vandalism.

As I am no more an anonymous user, I am going to make the correction again.--Gillesjouvenet 22:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zahi Hawass

I think you might be leaning a little too pro in the Zahi Hawass article. If you do a little searching on the web you will see that there is much controversy over his handling of Egyptian sites and his scientific rigor. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Settersr (talk • contribs).

I've responded to you on the article's talk page. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · t 19:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Masri

Thanks for the help. I updated the page with the news. Jessesamuel 21:17, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] /* Culture */ ُEgypt

According to this message: "Please do not remove content from Wikipedia. It is considered vandalism, and if you choose to do it repeatedly, it may get you blocked from editing. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you."

I'd like to notify you, it's not a vandalism .. There's a pic of Ruby in Egyptian culture, O RLY? where's the pic of Dr. Zewail instead? Is Ruby represnt our culture in Egypt?? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.36.214.58 (talk • contribs).

Perhaps not, but unfortunately the removal can be construed as vandalism if it's done repeatedly without discussion, despite being asked to discuss the matter on the talk page. With regard to whether Ruby "represents" Egyptian culture; this is a value judgment, one with which Egyptians would certainly have varying opinions. A recent article on the topic for example indicated that Egyptian youth regard Ruby and the football/soccer player Beebo (full name?) as the most interesting people in Egypt. So it cannot be denied that Ruby has a very large following in her home country. In any event, the placement of the picture is not meant to "represent" Egyptian culture, only to show an aspect of it. As to the picture of Zewail, I didn't remove it and I have no objections to it, but I don't think it's appropriate for a culture section (he's a chemist). — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · t 21:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possibly unfree Image:Abdelhalim.jpg

[edit] HAPPY NEW YEAR, Zerida

Felicitations! According to the ancient Egyptian calendar, the new year has just started, today. Just thought to seize the chance to greet you and also to urge you for celebration. I thank you for all your contributions with knowledges and information about Egypt, in Wikipedia.
Have a great time, __Maysara 03:35, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

• Hey .. Actually I didn't know Wafaa e'Nil was celebrated at that time. But didn't the Nile festivals and the, secular, Haaby worship, were all done at the anticipation (i.e. right before the beginning) of inundation, that is, in Ba'ouna (or June)?! So I thought. Though the week before the new-year was also celebrated by our Grandfathers; it coincided, and still coincides, with the merriment and joyfull activity of collecting and classifying huge quantities of palm-dates! which still happens today in many regions, and almost intact, in Nubia. :-)

So what was the "nanou en sawwa en werri."?! Coptic for "Happy new year"?! Come-On! It's time we get to know each other much more. Also, rather than having these conversations going under the eyes of the world! (maysara.omar@gmail.com) __Maysara 01:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] zerida

Zerida, im sorry for this misunderstanding. Im sure you have good intentions as I have. I also love ancient Egypt and would love to visit it again. My many compliments for your edits on Egyptian articles. Wishing you best. Thanks. Ldingley 20:49, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Saadawi.gif

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[edit] An appology

I appologize for what I did 'by mistake', considering your edit to "Alexandria University" article as vandalism. Once more I appologize :) --TheEgyptian 20:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article rating

Where can I find the rating of an article? I know that the featured articles are marked wit that golden star...what about the other levels?

--TheEgyptian 16:28, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi there! Not all articles are rated. Usually those that fall within a WikiProject will be rated according to a quality scale similar to this one. If an article has been rated, you will find a template on the associated talk page. See Talk:Ahmose I for example. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · t 21:55, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Egyptians

Hi again Zerida. Awesome work at the Egyptians article. I have some remarks though: the article is too long (couldn't finish it esp. the history sections), references may need cleanup and the top image may be an OR, but overall, extraordinary work. --Wedian 01:20, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

		The Working Woman's Barnstar
		For your your tireless work on the Egyptians article, I award you , Zerida, this Working Woman's Barnstar. --Wedian 01:20, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

As i said, vey nice work, Zerida. I understand that shortening the article won't be an easy job. As for the top image, i know there is no strict policy for OR in images, but it was just a concern i had that adding such an image at the top would imply that these are the most famous Egyptians which is only the view of the editors. If i were to edit that image, i won't add Ruby who had her time may be a year ago but not now. Sherine or Amr Diab would fit more and certainly Umm Kolthoum. I would also replace Prince Rahotep with someone more known to the public, may be Khafra or Ramesses II. Nawal el-Saadawi is ok but Hoda Shaarawi may have been better and Zewail would also go to the top image. Can you see my concern here? Other editors might have other points of view as well. Anyway, Egyptian feminism would be great too. Keep up the good work.--Wedian 13:57, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Ancient Egyptian religion

No more backlog. :) Thanks for the reminder. Luna Santin 02:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Saadawi.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:Saadawi.gif. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

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[edit] About article Copt

You asked for my opinion on the article Copt on my talk page. I have posted my opinion on the talk page of the article here. I hope I have helped. Thank you for asking for my opinion.

--Meno25 02:25, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Hi, Zerida. If you remember you asked for my opinion on the article Copt on September 4, 2006. However, I left you this message because I suspect that the article Coptic Christianity has been heavily vandalized but I didn't want to revert it without the opinion of another user. Could you check the last few edits of this article for vandalism, please? Thank you.

--Meno25 19:48, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coptic Christianity

Hi, Zerida. These two past revisions: [5] and [6] are what I was referring to. You can notice that the image in the info box was deleted. By the way, I notice that you do a lot of effort concerning Egypt-related articles. Good work.

--Meno25 01:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abraam Bishop of Fayoum

Hi, Zerida.

I thank you for accepting the appropriate additions in Coptic Christianity. As far as any adjustment in St Abramm of Fayoum, I am surprised that you consider it as vandalism. I corrected an inaccurate title that unfortunatly was being used by most egyptians. St. Abramm was a Metropolitan. This is in the history books. My family is originally from Fayoum and my grandfathers knew him in person and they were pioneers in Fayoum in many venues. So my correction is based on facts not supposition. If you want to discuss this, please email me (wassefm@msn.com). I would like to register, but I work out of two computers (home and work), if you noticed my contributions are from the IP address ending in 39 and 177, so if I register froom one, will it acknowledge the other IP address or do I have to register in both, with different names. please advise.

Thank you

Sub deacon Magued Wassef —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.126.136.177 (talk • contribs).

[edit] Ibn Yunus

Hi Zerida,

Regarding Ibn Yunus, he was actually born in baghdad, then later moved to Egypt. But still, I left the Egyptian Category there, since he probably lived most of his life there. I hope you agree with me that you can be an arab and an egyptian at the same time :) Another famous arab egyptian astronomer was Mashallah. I provided sources that mention him as an egyptian, but it gets continusly removed by the persians. Please have a look at it.

Cheers, Jidan 17:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Jidan. Actually, it appears you have Ibn Yunus and Ibn Yusuf mixed up. With regard to the former, there is very little doubt about his Egyptian parentage [7] and birth [8] [9] [10]. Ibn Yusuf, Sr. never left Egypt [11].

As to being Egyptian and Arab at the same time, it's a subject of frequent debate. While Egyptians often don't consider themselves Arab on account of their non-Arab origins (hence this Arab-Net description of Egyptians) .there are still Egyptians who do. In either case, the modern understanding, which is based on either affiliation with Arab nationalism or lack thereof, should have no bearing on medieval history. Medieval Egyptians did not describe themselves as Arab the way some people in the ME do today. The titles al-Misri, al-Farisi, al-Kurdi etc. were often used to distinguish non-Arab Muslims from Arab ones. Some modern writers apply the term Arab to medieval scholars the way it's used today, but this constitutes a fallacy of presentism IMO. Articles like Ibn Qutaybah are confusing. I won't quibble over Ibn Yusuf due to the lack of certainty regarding his origins. Similar arguments appear to have taken place about Ptolemy whose origins are not clear. He has been described both as a Greek and a Hellenized Egyptian. Mash'allah may also be one of those cases, but he's also Jewish. Perhaps Category:Arabic-language writers is more appropriate. I notice there is a Wikipedia:WikiProject Muslim scholars. Another way to avoid disputes like these is to focus on medieval Muslim scholars in general. Their being Muslim is rarely debated. Just my 2 cents. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · ☥ 06:54, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment, you seem to know a lot. ohhh that is soo imperssing!! I have mixed up Ibn Yunus and Ibn Yusuf :( I really thought they were the same person, only different sources. I have witnessed many times multiple articles of the same person, and I thought the same thing here. Anyway, thanks! Now regarding Ibn Yunus, if you check his surname; its al-sadafi. In arabic thats "الصدفي". Al-sadafi was an arab yemeni tribe that migrated to egypt during amr ibn a's. As Ibn Khaldun said[12]: "بنو الصدف - بفتح الصاد وكسر الدال المهملتين حي من حضرموت وحضرموت يأتي نسبه عند ذكره في حرف الحاء المهملة حضر منهم جماعة فتح مصر مع عمرو بن العاص واختلطوا بها‏." Here is another site regarding this family [13]. Regarding the Arab vs Egyptian/Lebnanon identity, it is as you said, its a frequent debate. But what I noticed, is that its mostly done by non-muslims. The Arabs didn't have a nationlaism concept, but rather triblaism. At that time your citizenship was your religon. This all changed during the colonoial ages.

Regarding Mashallah, did you read what I wrote in the discussion page? Most sources mention him as Egyptian jew not persian jew and I provedid those sources, but the article now says he is just persian. Jidan 10:38, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

There may well have been a Yemenite tribe known as Sadef, but to extrapolate from that that Ibn Yunus had anything to do with it when there are no references to that effect is more like original research. Ibn Yunus, Sr. was a historian and a biographer who wrote extensively about the history of Egypt and the Egyptians as stated in the links above. Surely, he would have made mention of any alleged Arab/Yemenite connection.

The book references I've come across mention Mash'allah being Persian Jewish [14] [15]. The first source says, "There has been speculation that [Masha'allah] was from Egypt, but his Persian name (Yazdankhwast) and the pro-Iranian and anti-Abbasid sentiments detected in his writings, leave little room for doubt that he was Iranian" (pp. 45-46). So actually it does seem he was more likely Iranian not Egyptian I'm afraid. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · ☥ 03:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Its not orginail research. Al-Sadafi is a known yemeni arab tribe that have immagrated to egypt and Al-Andalus during the islamic expansion and have held high postions in the governemnt and I have gaven you a citation from Ibn Khaldun.I think you know very well the significance his surname is. And by allowing User:Mardavich to remove his surname Al-Sadafi, you have demonstrated very well how signifcinat it is! Anyway, whether you like it or not, I consider egyptians and arabs one family, therefore I will leave it like this but I will add the arab categories down and of course his surname back. If you disagree with this, then we are going to have a problem. Jidan 10:40, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The Ibn Khaldun tidbit is not a citation. There needs to be concrete evidence that connects Ibn Yunus, Jr. or Sr. to that tribe. The term Sadafi is connected with a multitude of things in the ME from Iran to Morocco as a quick Google search demonstrates, but I won't haphazardly guess that Ibn Yunus was Persian because there are Persians by that name. There also happens to be an old town in Egypt known as Sadafa, but I don't know if he's connected with it or not. It's not important to me either way what part of his very long name stays up in the article, because some references mention al-Sadafi, some mention al-Misri, and some mention both. It is also not important to me that you consider Egyptians and Arabs "one family"! As the oft-repeated Wiki-phrase goes: this is an encyclopedia. It is important that it remains accurate.

The overwhelming documented evidence points to his Egyptian background. For example, his historian/biographer father wrote exclusively about Egypt and Egyptians. From the reference I quoted above, "Egypt's most celebrated early historian and first known compilter of a biographical dictionary devoted exclusively to Egyptians, Ibn Yunus al-Sadafi never left Egypt... As al-Kindi's observation reminds us, the Pharaonic view of Egypt as the center of the universe became part of the cultural heritage of Islam in Egypt...Egyptians saw little reason to seek knowledge elsewhere" (Eikelman 1990, p. 58). The Britannica's entry on Ibn Yunus the astronomer describes him simply as an Egyptian astronomer [16] as do most other references. He's also known to have worked with Egyptian/Coptic texts, which suggests he was bilingual in Coptic like most Egyptians then were. It is simply not accurate to describe Egyptians in the transition period of the early centuries of Islam as Arab. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · ☥ 19:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Wow...that was fast..LOOL. Im sorry if I was uncivil in anyway. Jidan 00:34, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

BTW, which part was uncivil? Jidan 00:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ibn Yunus

After some research at the library, I've found several references regarding Ibn Yunus's Egyptian background and identity, which I added to the article. --Mardavich 13:49, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HRW in Egypt

Zerida - While I appreciate your commitment to human rights as evidenced by your vigorous editing, this part is located in such a central position in the article, and occupies more space than any of the sections on National, International, Military, Demographics - which are far more important sections. I therefore think it merits some shortening, or at least placement in a less central location. Not even North Korea, which has a human rights record a billion times worse than Egypt, has such a long section on human rights placed in such a central location, as you can easily check.

I am no big fan of Mubarak and Co. I just wish that: a. we stick to typical wikipedia format concerning articles on countries and b. not be so proud of showing Egypt's dirty laundry to the world. We shouldn't hide the ugly truth but we shouldn't also be proud of exhibiting it with such length and in such a location in the article.

Thanks.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Johndoe0307 (talk • contribs) 06:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC).

OK, I don't really have objections to the current version. But John, I wouldn't be so vigorous in editing that section if you weren't equally vigorously making it sound like the government is actually doing a good job of protecting human rights! Since there's a section about it now, it should also note the perspective of human rights organizations. You also keep editing out the part about Baha'is and other religious minorities. I think the section warrants some mention, that's all. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · ☥ 07:51, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

7 years is a bit too long...but hey...it's better than being president for life!

Johndoe (unsigned)

Hear, hear :) — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · ☥ 06:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ibn Yunus

Hi, please take a look at Talk:Ibn Yunus. --Lanov 06:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)