Talk:Yemen

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[edit] Free and fair

Under politics it says "International observers judged elections to be generally free and fair". I would really like to know what observers said this. When a candidate gets 96% of the vote you know something isn't right. And according to the BBC the main opposition party was barred from fielding a candidate. This doesn't sound like free and fair to me.

I'm removing the description of the elections as free and fair.

Free and Fair is a matter of judgement and opinion. The international observers from around the world (especially europe) did say it was "generally free and fair" I don't see why that should be removed? since it did say "international observers" and we are refering to their opinion rather then our own. Put it back. Also the % was not 96%. It was 77% in favor of the current president. The other candidate is less known to the masses, who in general, are not educated. Most naturally voted for the more safe candidate, where the much needed change in government would also mean chaos and instability.

[edit] Demographics

A question about Yemen's Demographics: I have read that Yemen has a native black population who do not have recent African origin. It is believed that these people are decendants of the first wave of people to leave Africa thousands of years ago. There are only a few populations of these people that still exist. The Andamanese are one of the more famous groups from that lineage.

There is no mention of these people in the demographics section. Is there actually a native, non-african, black population who have been omitted, or do these people not actually exist? It would be good if someone who actually lives or has lived in Yemen could clarify this for me. Thanks.


[edit] The Picture

90% of Yemeni people live in the Mountains of Yemen of which a major characteristic is Terraces. Amazing Terraces of Green, up and down the mountain side. Yet always, always if anyone wishs to propagate an image of an Arab country such as Yemen they look for the photos that highlight the colors of Tan & Browns. Yemen is an agricultural country where the great majority live in those agricultural centers. Why don't you put a photo of Yemen, the famous Yemen of mountains and Green to show that yes the Arab Muslim world has amazing shades of green to go along with tans & sand. If one puts a photo of china will they put the photo of the desert where rarely people live? NO. They will show the place where the majority live. Yet for Yemen you and all those who propagate an image of an Arab as being "less". This is anti-semitism for the most semitic people on earth are Arabs. by BB

Don't be ridiculous. If you have a nice green picture Yemeni terraces put it up. Don't call me a racist for putting up a picture of Yemen that doesn't fit your river valley and rainbows stereotype. A large part of Yemen is indeed desert (or semi desert), and I believe a lot of people like the Yemeni desert and its architecture, I know I do. TastyCakes 22:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I know you like the Yemeni desert and probably like African American Tap dancing in regards to their culture or maybe a maharaja & snake charmer of India. The stereotype remains on your side of the court. by BB

You are clearly trawling for an argument over a trivial subject. I will say again: if you have a picture you feel is more representative, put it up. It's not like anyone is going to go and delete your picture for being too green. But maybe if you did that you'd have nothing to whine about... TastyCakes 21:41, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

No whining involved...but you do not see the point since you come from the long line of colonialists and orientalists that simply distort all things not in line with their rainbows. Rainbows that cater to the imagination of the west, sometimes done innocently, sometimes blatantly. This is not stated as a blame-game, rather when an African American sees something that somehow reflects a view of a past subjugator or a Jew of past racism, however minute, they make it clear to the college graduate that has never been in their shoes that its easy to place a picture up to replace another, but its much harder to speak to minds that inadvertantly stereotype. Textbooks used to call Yemeni people "Dervishes on a barren landscape" while revealing photos of the desert that the British occupied, mind you the British occupied the most uninhabited spot in Yemen with the town center having only 600 people. They used those photos to depict Yemen and their people while the other 90% were in the mountains cultivating. That went on from the daguerreotype photos until the British left in the 1960s. So to know something of history reflects why an African American, a Latin, an Asian or a Yemeni protests any remnant of past oppressions. by BB

1) I don't have a picture of yemen's terraces, but you are right that they are nice. Once again, add it if you want.
2) The picture is in the HISTORY section, not the "where most Yemeni's live" section. If I had a picture of that stone bridge thing in the middle of nowhere, I'd have put that in, even though it's in the middle of a desert, so I found the most "historic" picture I had.
3) You don't know anything about me, please do not pretend you do. TastyCakes 00:39, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

You are so right I don't know anything about you..So you have been to Yemen. My mistake, it only seemed like you have not been there before. Please excuse. I hope I have calmed you down. :-) And sorry did you mean that photo is relevant because its in the history section? because..Actually in general the mountain villages are older then the desert villages. And the greatest population dencity in Yemen live in the Oldest most Historical parts of Yemen. From your comments it is apparent that you are making an asumption that (like most countries) people moved from the old areas to newer areas. The oldest Arab expeditions were the expeditions held by the mountaineers going east & north into the desert, after already building the mountain civilization. For example according to UNESCO the capital of sanaa is the oldest continually inhabited city in the world. That does not even mention all the millions that live in the villages around Sanaa, Ibb, Taiz. By BB

I lived in Yemen for about 4 years. I agree the big cities are indeed just as old, but because they have changed so much (full of cars and street signs) I don't think they convey Yemen's long history as well as isolated little towns like the one in the picture. I have other similar pictures of places like Kawkaban, but they are all from the North and none are particularly green. TastyCakes 05:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

You must have been blind or have not lived there. I had lived there for 20 years and worked in the tourism sector. The big cities are only recognized as a congregation point between very ancient villages that depend on agriculture and are much older then most cities and villages of the world. by BB

You are confusing me. I don't even know what you're arguing any more and this discussion is pointless and of no benefit to the article. And I don't particularly care if you do believe me. Goodbye TastyCakes 01:27, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes I was well aware of your not knowing what it was about from the beginning. Many points on the Yemen page actually make that quite clear. It is fine not to know because you are not required in life to know everything like a Yemeni would about their country so to abdicate from this discussion is well wise of you. No ill will what so ever. Oh, and goodbye to you as well. :-) by BB

This is ridiculus I looked at the picture it is a very nice picture its amazing how they build on the clifs like that, but if you want to get rid of it be my guest and stop nagging about its oreintalist and colonialist representation of Yemen, its not, its a representation of the HISTORY of Yemen, Give me a break!

[edit] Unification

I don't see much in the article about the unification of Yemen. A few times it is mentioned that it is a unified country (ie "after unification ... "), occassionally mentioning "the former north Yemen" (technically the "n" in "north" should be capitalized, but lowercase is correct too, just not as much IMHO). I think the history section should be expanded to include that, since they have a national day celebrating it, it's probalby a significant event in the country's history!

I don't know that much about the unification, so I wouldn't be a good person to write the needed paragraph or so, all I remember is reading somewhere that the Yemenis were inspired by the reunification of Germany, seeing that they could probably do the same thing (if you noticed, the Yemens and the Germanies were unified in the same year.) --Canuckguy 14:32, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

That is incorrect. Yemen's unity was rolling on its way for a very long time and was not the least affected by Germany. First of all Yemen united before Germany. Yemen May 22 1990 & Germany Oct. 3 1990. One may say Germany was affected by Yemen, yet in reality German unity & Yemen unity were completely unrelated. Yemen was set to reunify years before 1990 yet it was delayed. One must understand the Yemeni unity was not the fall of one land or regime rather it was a political merge. The President of the South became Vice President. It was the will of the people on both sides of the border and to achieve a political merge of 2 governments takes much doing & time something that the 3rd world takes its time doing, very slowly. It could not be rushed by German unity, especially since Yemen united first. by BB

[edit] Terrorist?

There is refernce to the British being ousted by terrorist campaign. This is potentially POV though I know nothing about the history. "Terrorist" is rhetorical and difficult to define and invites POV warring. Angrynight 21:56, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

It's kind of complicated. My understanding is that the British were set on leaving, but then the Americans said "hey we could use a friend in the region" and so they tried to reverse their pull out. At that point a guerilla type campaign was begun and under increasing violence the British pulled out anyway. Don't know how accurate this account is. TastyCakes 07:46, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

As for the term terrorist in regards to South Yemen. One can easily read old news clippings (some available on the net) where the Brits continually and made it a point on calling anyone in Aden wishing the Brits out "a terrorist". Sounds very familiar now a days doesn't it. by BB

Actually, I think you'll find that anyone who wanted the British out and were willing to act violently to support that goal were called terrorists. There's a bit of a difference.. TastyCakes 21:44, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

In general colonialists caused the most terror upon the masses yet since colonialists also possessed the media they could, and still can, call anyone they like, whatever they like. by BB

Stop trolling for arguments with divisive POV crap. TastyCakes 20:12, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
I think BB makes a good point, how is that "POV crap"? Also, isn't "POV crap" to insist that the inhabitants of a country fighting against colonialists/imperialists are terrorists? --Inahet 04:11, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
I didn't insist it. I said that is what they needed to do at the time to be labelled terrorist. I didn't say they were terrorists, and indeed as the targets were mostly military I agree that insurgent would be a more accurate description. On the other hand, no notable source I have seen referred to the british occupation of Aden as "terrorist". Say whatever bad things you want about colonisation and imperialism, it simply does not fit under the definition of terrorism as defined by any non-POV source. Furthermore, unlike many arab media sources, Western media was, as it is now, independent of the government. In any case, BB comes here to argue, not improve the article. He calls the British terrorists because he knows it will piss off people like me. As I said, it's divisive and doesn't help anything, least of all the article. TastyCakes 04:40, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh thank you Inahet, I didn't mean to get TastyCakes furious. No need for insults "tastycakes" and words like "crap" :-). First of all I never called the British "Terrorists". The discussion was the use of a people rebelling colonialization and being called "terrorists" and that (as I said before as a interesting note) "In general colonialists caused the most terror upon the masses yet since colonialists also possessed the media they could, and still can, call anyone they like, whatever they like."

These statements are merely facts. I used the word terror, not terrorist, if you see them as one and the same, then your argument falls apart, for even you saw the term as meaning something negative and took great offence to it. How does it make others feel then? Or is it only you that matters? I appologize if this touchy issue is an issue we should not talk about. I appologize also for ever infering that colonialists ever brought terror, maybe they took over by the power of love.

As for the term "terrorist" we will leave that as a term to describe Aden's revolt against British occupation. Yes, you're correct that George Washington & those crucial to the Revolutionary War in America as a revolt against British occupation may sound similar, but they are not. Yes Aden & America revolted against British occupation, yet Aden = Terrorism .... America = Revolutionary Rebellion. Don't worry I will keep that clear in my mind from now on, and thank you. by BB

This issue has already been fixed in the article. So why exactly did you see the need to comment on it here? Were you simply unable to pass up a chance to take a swipe at the British? As I said, I don't think the Yemenis involved in the Aden revolt classify as terrorists by a non-POV stance. Whoever changed it in the article was right to do so. The British held power in Aden by threat of force, not terror. There might be a better argument for them using terror in South Africa, where blacks were "hunted" by Boer's from an early stage, or even North America with the widespread killing of natives. But in Aden this just wasn't so. As I said before "colonialists" do not and did not control the media. They were mostly Western, of course, which makes them POV to some extent, but there were dissenters then as there are now. And for the record, I don't think you're capable of "making me furious", you just piss me off. TastyCakes 16:31, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Longitude

Longitude "12d 24m E" of the capital is wrong. Also say "the population" instead of "the size, in terms of population". --User:Jidanni 2006-07-24

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