Talk:Y'all

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Umm... this page definitely needs some citations or something, because it's not very believable, especially the claims about it being very widespread and acceptable in formal conversations. It definitely is a regional thing, but I haven't heard a "y'all" in a long time... I dunno, it just seems that this page needs some reputable research to back up these claims. --Nichenbach 22:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

"It is notable that in Standard English there is no single word to represent the second-person plural pronoun." excuse me, what about 'you'?? Bridesmill 19:34, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Possibly merge with and redirect to English grammar (see footnote 1). 24.245.12.39 07:43, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm redirecting this to plural of you, Steve.

Contents 1 Use of Y'all in Texas 2 Marskell, the "Spread" Section Seems Odd 3 International Use 4 Pronunciation 5 Irony 6 The Usage of Y'all 7 Dual Pronoun? 8 Wicked? 9 Where it is used 10 Confusion with other Southern words

[edit] Use of Y'all in Texas

This is purly anecdotal. I'm not from Texas, but I live there now. I hear "Y'ALL" often used as the singular second person pronoun and I had always thought it was only used in the pural. For the plural second person pronoun, I often hear, "Y'ALL" used as one might expect, but I was also surprised to hear "ALL Y'ALL" used plural in situations when the plural is important and "Y'ALL" might be mistaken for being singular. 24.174.89.190 15:37, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

(Reply from TXFirebear: 16 Nov. 2005)

This is the kind of stuff I was hoping to address in the expanded definition of "y'all." Yes, people will use "y'all" as a singular pronoun in highly confusing situations where the distinction between singular and plural might drastically change grammatical meaning. Such a confusion between singular and plural second-person is sometimes being skillfully exploited by a Southern (USA) dialect speaker. This forced and purposefull ambiguity of number is similar, I theorize, to the ambiguity surrounding "you" as a distinct formal pronoun (when used in the singular sense). My best, albeit, unsolicited, advice for anyone dealing with a speaker who uses "y'all" in a questionable context such as, "Y'all are goin', ain't ya'?" is to nail the speaker down as to the number of people expected "to go."

Though "y'all" implies plurality, the need for informality (or the lack of care or understanding of different levels of diction) and the inevitible exploitation of ambiguity for financial gain seem to converge on this simple, stupid word I love so much: "y'all."

Favorite quote from Frank L. Whitington (56+ year Dallas, Texas resident): "Listen, y'all, we don't say, 'y'all.'"

In Louisiana, just across the Texas border, the only time y'all could be confused for being singular (in my experience) is when someone is speaking to someone as a representative a group. For example, if I see an old friend at the grocery store, I might ask, "How are y'all doin'?" The implication is "How are you and your family doing?" Likewise, when I check out at the same store, I might say to the teller, "Y'all need to check out Aisle 12. Someone spilled some orange juice." Here, y'all is referring to the employee being addressed in addition to all the other employees. Using y'all to address a single individual without implying a connection to a larger group would not be idiomatic in my opinion. — BrianSmithson 19:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm from Texas. Y'all is used as "you all." For example: "What are you all doing?" or "What are all of you doing?" could be replaced by "What are y'all doing?", but "what are you doing?" can't be replaced with "what are y'all doing?", as that woudl simply be stupid. I request that it be edited out. --Melissia 14:16, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I never hear y'all used in the singular. I frequently hear it used in potentially confusing situations (as BrianSmithson described above), but I don't hear it used to refer to a single person. The distinction between "y'all" and "all y'all" is not one of the cardinality of the group people being addressed, but whether the referent is as a group or as the several members. This is the distinction described in the Southern American English article (which see). As for my linguistic background: I'm from West Texas. My Dad's side is from rural North Texas, and that side has heavily influenced my dialect. (My Mom's side is from San Antonio, but tends towards General American in vocabulary if not pronunciation.) -- Piquan 21:09, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marskell, the "Spread" Section Seems Odd

In writing much of the original text for the "y'all" entry (originally part of "you") I was fascinated by the prospect of accurately explaining how "y'all" and "thou," while related, are at odds in meaning because of the plural vs. singular of both informal forms. Despite the odd language regarding prescriptive grammar which seems just anti-academic for its own sake while indulging in amethest lexical choices, the equating of the informal "y'all" with the formal "you" of earlier use is just INCORRECT. The logic of my remaining bits argues against this error. In a few days, after we've had time to discuss your radical revision of this entry and nullification of my own last revisions, I would like to change this error. Basically, I'm saying, "What's up? Let's get this entry right." --TXFirebear 06:24, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Insofar as "you" was once plural and "y'all" is now, equating the two is perfectly reasonable. I changed "meaning" to "grammatical number" to specify the comparison. As for "anti-academic for its own sake," how so? Grammarians and teachers don't play a prescriptivist role? It's not an accusation. Finally, as I suggested, I removed your line because it seems odd to make a statement and then subsequently deny it. Absolutely point out that usage is discouraged in other contexts by non-professionals but it appeared that the point was being treated as a strawman. Marskell 14:19, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] International Use

I think it would be worth to add a point that it is used in the UK at least, as a slightly mocking word. 'Hey y'all' is often used when greeting people in a friendly manner. In my experince, it is only used at the beginning of a conversation, people in my area prefering to refer to the 2nd person plural as either the normal 'you', or the local 'youse'. Does this happen in other areas as well? Big Moira 00:08, 11/03/2006 (GMT)

[edit] Pronunciation

I think that an important information which is missing is the IPA transcription. Can somebody provide it, please?

(Reply from jam_cpa: 22 May 2006)

Here is an IPA transcription that approximates the pronunciation I've heard throughout my life in the Southeastern US (specifically, North Carolina and Georgia):

[ j ɑ ɫ ]

I hope this helps. --Jam cpa 05:32, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Irony

These usage differences are generally cited in the same manner as how people often confuse "their", "there", and "they're". Am I the only one who finds this funny?

No, I find it quite hilarious too. 151.213.230.196 23:29, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Usage of Y'all

Y'all is used in all but the most formal of speech registers and in writing

Is this true? I'm from Georgia (USA), and I never use y'all in speech or writing (although I did in my earlier years). I think the sentence should be changed to.

Y'all is typically used only in informal situations, and is excluded (and even frowned upon) in formal speech and writing.

Would this change reflect a global opinion? I wouldn't want to show POV on the issue. 151.213.230.196 23:29, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I second this change. I'm from northern Ohio, so I don't hear "y'all" much at all, but when I do hear it, it has always been in an informal manner. Maybe in some regions "y'all" is used in more formal settings, but from my experiences, it's relegated to informal conversations... and almost never in writing. I'd say go ahead and make the change. --Nichenbach 22:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm from Louisiana, and I've heard and seen y'all in informal and semi-formal speech and writing, but never formal. So I've made the change. Babomb 22:25, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dual Pronoun?

I have seen the use of y'all for a small group and all y'all for a large group, but is y'all really used to mean only two? Quite the contrary, I have often seen the expression y'all two, meaning "the two of you" (and similarly, y'all three etc.). Sources, please? --Babomb 22:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

There's no way that y'all refers only to two people. The "all" in "all y'all" is used as an emphatic or to distinguish the whole group from a subgroup. --Grouse 08:42, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wicked?

Primarily due to the mass-migration of African Americans and other Southerners outside the South in the 20th century, the use of the word y'all in the United States has spread from its original regionalism, similar to the originally Northeastern use of wicked to mean very.

Saying "wicked" in this context is very much a Northeast (especially New England) regionalism. As such, I'm removing the reference from this sentence. If someone can cite evidence that it is as widely and commonly used as y'all, throughout the US, then feel free to reinsert the comparison.

--68.0.212.218 06:52, 15 July 2006 (UTC) Joe

While I was at the University of North Texas in 1996, a group of students made a very amusing, and strong argument against the "y'all" spelling and for "yall." It was based on the fact that "y'all" suggests that the word is a contraction whereas "yall" is the proper second person plural pronoun in the south. Regardless, many of us that graduated from that class still proudly spell it "yall" and use the example sentence from that argument "Yall can keep your dang apostrophe."

[edit] Where it is used

Be careful about how you describe where this term is used. "Y'all" has historically been used throughout the South AND the West (albeit more so in the Southwest than the Northwest). Even today this expression is still quite common in many areas of California (even suburbs of the major cities) where families have been there for generations. It is often true that inside the major cities you hear the expression less often simply because it is seen as unsophisticated. Indeed this expression is a good example of the many cases of common heritage between the South and the West where something is seen as a source of pride in the South and a source of shame in the West. I'm reminded of hearing people in San Francisco talk about those redneck cowboys in Texas as we drove past the Cow Palace. :-)

It should be stated that, in general, the use of "y'all" is slowly dying in the major urban areas of the South, and the Yankee "you guys" has made major inroads since the 70s due both to the influence of television and to the acceptance of the civil rights movement in the South (thereby erasing most of the North-South tensions). The expression is still heavily used, though, all over the South so it is hard to say what its ultimate fate is.

A couple of other points:

   - It is very true that y'all has been used as the second person singular in Texas (I don't believe this is unique to Texas but I haven't lived in other
     areas that use the expression enough to know for sure). This usage however has rapidly died out in the last couple of decades.
   - It is worth comparing the use of y'all in the South to "you guys" in many parts of the North. "You guys" has been an often used clause in the South for a long
     time. The difference has been that it was not an "expression" as it is in the North. In the North "you guys" is treated as a single word representing a neuter
     pronoun just like "y'all." In the south, however, "you guys" has been interpreted literally in the same way one might say "you ladies" or "you fellows"
     or similar things. Specifically, "you guys" would not be something one would say to a group of women or a group of small children since it would sound
     strange at best or offensive at worst. In recent years, of course, Southerners have begun to use the expressions interchangeably.

--Mcorazao 15:28, 11 Aug 2006 (CDT)

[edit] Confusion with other Southern words

This section is absolutely absurd. This article desperately needs references and citations. In addition to this paragraph, much of this article appears to violate WP:OR. -THB 13:38, 17 November 2006 (UTC)