Talk:Windows 2000/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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Old, unsectioned comments

Actually, it isn't completely correct to say that XP is the successor to 2000. XP is the successor to 9x/Me and NT Professional, but there is currently no successor to the Windows 2000 server products. "Windows Server .Net" or some similar foolishness, is currently, I think, in beta 3. To say that XP is the successor to 2000 over-emphasizes the role of 2000 as a desktop operating system and under-emphasizes it as a network operating system. - 9jack9.

In the sense that XP was built upon 2000, you could say that it is the successor. I think that XP was supposed to replace *both* 2000 and ME, by making 2000 easier to use for desktop but keeping it powerful enough for networking. Also (I think) that .net isn't itself an operating system, but a programming-design protocall or something like that. -- sodium

Well, it's reasonable to say that XP is mostly built on the code of W2K, so in that sense it's the successor to W2K. However, it's supposed to also be the successor in the sense of "migration path" from all Windows desktop operating systems. So, does that make it the successor to W2K Pro, 9x/Me, or both? I dunno. Also, there are two versions of XP, XP Home and XP Professional, so you could say that XP Home is the successor to 9x/Me and that XP Pro is the successor to W2K Pro.

Microsoft says that the "next generation of the Windows Server family" is "Windows .Net Server Beta 3". They also refer to "Microsoft's .Net vision", which includes pretty much everything, including Windows server versions, server applications, programming platform, and Internet-based services. - 9jack9.

This article comes across as biased towards microsoft, particularly on the issue of TCO.

... does that make it the successor to W2K Pro, 9x / Me, or both?

My understanding was that it was both, including large-scale networking. I suppose .Net must be the next generation of windows, but I think it will be a few years before it comes out (whatever Microsoft claims). -- sodium

Which leads me to the conclusion that brief discussions of successor in the article doesn't add a lot of value, unless it tries to detail all of these things. -9jack9.

Windows XP was defined by microsoft as a "convergence". The difference between home and professional seems to be an artificial contrivance by microsoft like the NT4 server workstation difference. They simply made two versions of the same product, but they are the same underneath. I would be more prone to define "successor" by kernel rather than by whatever functionality microsoft chooses to add as a package, so in that sense it is true successor to both 2000 and 9x regardless whether its targeted to server or desktop.

--Alan D

I don't see that it is more reasonably correct to consider successor to be defined by kernal rather than by intended use. If XP Home is marketed as the upgrade to 9x/Me and XP Pro is marketed as the upgrade to Windows 2000 Pro, but .Net Server is the upgrade Windows 2000 server products, I don't see how it's correct to simply consider XP the successor to 2000, and consider that the end of the story. -9Jack9

Fair enough, but I personally don't see the superior value in chronicling the marketing strategy of microsoft rather than the evolution of their products. Name distinction is important to them as a tool to make money. If they are the same kernel underneath, that is at least notable for us. How the different products are marketed is important I agree, but I personally find this less important than how the product actually works. On the other hand, maybe this is because of the profession I am in. I'm not going to mess with the page because I think you are doing a good job, but just wanted to add my two cents.

Cheers, Alan D

Hmmm, actually, I'd think that in a comprehensive article, both the marketing strategy and the kernel evolution would be important topics. Thanks for the compliment, but actually, all I did was start the page, with about a third of what is now there. This is my first Wikipedia article, and it's a pretty amazing process. And, fwiw, professionally, the kernel impacts me a great deal, but I would think that a general-purpose encyclopedia article should perhaps include social/marketing aspects as well as technical details.

-9Jack9.

Boot disk nonsense

The page you just linked to doesn't tell you how to create a DOS boot disk. What was your point? That just tells you how to create a floppy disk that will be able to locate a Windows NT or later installation on a hard disk and boot from it, when the partition table is fucked up.
The "Emergency Repair Disk" option under the Tools menu of the version of Backup included with Windows 2000 creates DOS boot disks. Just incase you aren't clear, the easiest way to tell is to look at a floppy disk for a file called COMMAND.COM and a file called MSDOS.SYS. If it includes those files then you can be pretty certain it is an MS-DOS boot disk. AlistairMcMillan 23:15, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Alistar, please do accept the fact that the procedure you outlined, does NOT produce the results you say it does. Indeed, after lauching NTBACKUP.exe, one is able to use the "backup" utility and one is indeed able to create an Emergency Repair Disk, however, the only files Windows 2000 puts on that diskette are:

  1. NN.exe
  2. setup.log
  3. config.nt
  4. autoexec.nt

Even looking for hidden and system files reveals no COMMAND.COM and MSDOS.sys. I am in USA. Perhaps the Europeon version differs, but USA Win2k with all latest fix paks and services gives the result I describe. Reverting you. 216.153.214.94 01:42, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sorry. Don't know what I did this morning but I'm sure (well 90% sure) I managed to create a boot floppy in Windows 2000. Tried again just there and only got three files (setup.log, config.nt and autoexec.nt). Didn't get the nn.exe file. I've left your edit in with some modifications. I hope they are not too disagreeable. Again, and I think for the first time, I admit Rex you were right. AlistairMcMillan 03:33, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

While I admit no relation to this mysterious "Rex" that you keep referring to, thank you. 216.153.214.94 04:08, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I still don't think that it's a valid concern. First Windows 2000 was designated as a business operating system, so any user should either have some sort of IT support, or be knowledgeable enough to use obtain another one. Second it's only a valid criticism for the first year or so IMO, because after that it's simply bad support from the companies that require the boot disks, not to provide an alternate source such as PC-DOS, or to use BSD or Linux and re-write their tools. PPGMD

Good Morning Travellers

I have Win 2000 Pro and would like to learn more about it, some of the ins and outs. Anyone able to recommend a good book other than the help files which are a bit limited? I knew 98 and 95 like the back of my hand but 2000 is so expansive. I've learned a few things about how to use the USB effectively with a laptop and DVD drive (I need to upgrade the USB port - but that's a side issue.) What I'm most interested in are the server aspects of the OS, and it should be just about time for those old 2000 books to start filtering into the outdated bin at B&N. Any expert blogs on the web I might look to for tips?

Most Stable of Windows OS

I removed this line "Windows 2000 has the reputation of being the most stable of the entire line of Microsoft operating systems after Windows NT 3.51." And I move that it stay removed unless we get some hard and current facts that back it up. As an IT consultant I know that the stability of an OS has more to do with the administrator, but I have yet to see any real facts on this line. In fact I know many that think that NT 4 was more stable than NT 3.51. PPGMD 20:15, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Comment: Well obviously you don't want to accept this if you're Windows XP fan, but rest assured Windows 2000 *is* the most stable of the current (read: still supported by Microsoft) NT based OS'es. Windows XP could have theoretically been better than Windows 2000, but they blew it by incorporating more and more unneeded features that would be sure to break down the first chance they get. Anyone who's someone (and has worked in the "field" long enough) realizes Windows XP is nothing but Windows 2000 layered with candy. I would say the proper comparison would be between a Harley-Davidson and a Japanese motorcycle. Sure the Japanese motorcycle is fancier but will it last longer, no. Will it break down sooner? Sure, because it's mostly plastic. That's Windows XP for you, pal. Added complexity always equals less reliability, don't forget that.

Sorry it's not common knowledge, it may be true, but we need proof for a wikipedia article. I also have years of expirence in the field, and have gotten long uptimes with all NT based OSs since NT 4, it's all in the administrator. PPGMD 02:08, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Added complexity does not necessarily equal less reliability. Besides, the XP vs. 2000 discussion is moot -- it would be more relevant to compare 2000 and 2003. I think 2003 is definitely more stable, but if you have any evidence, please cite away... Neilc 11:06, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Windows 2003 is Windows XP+IIS and that IE security thing with a few things turned off by default.—Kbolino 04:49, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)

Windows 2000 architecture

I see this article doesn't deal with the Windows 2000 architecture. I have made a diagram based on two block diagrams I've seen from various sources (one is from my MCSE Win2k server book). Hope this is useful! - Ta bu shi da yu 05:16, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Image:Windows 2000 architecture.PNG

Criticism of Microsoft

In all that criticism, I'm surprised noone has brought up their problems with RPC vulnerabilities. Have a look at [1] if you don't believe me! We have:

  • Microsoft Security Bulletin MS03-026: issue with a vulnerability in the part of RPC that deals with message exchange over TCP/IP. The failure results because of incorrect handling of malformed messages. This particular vulnerability affects a Distributed Component Object Model (DCOM) interface with RPC, which listens on RPC enabled ports.
  • Microsoft Security Bulletin MS03-001: A security vulnerability results from an unchecked buffer in the Locator service. By sending a specially malformed request to the Locator service, an attacker could cause the Locator service to fail, or to run code of the attacker's choice on the system.
  • Microsoft Security Bulletin MS03-010: This particular vulnerabilty affects the RPC Endpoint Mapper process, which listens on TCP/IP port 135. The RPC endpoint mapper allows RPC clients to determine the port number currently assigned to a particular RPC service. To exploit this vulnerability, an attacker would need to establish a TCP/IP connection to the Endpoint Mapper process on a remote machine. Once the connection was established, the attacker would begin the RPC connection negotiation before transmitting a malformed message. At this point, the process on the remote machine would fail. The RPC Endpoint Mapper process is responsible for maintaining the connection information for all of the processes on that machine using RPC. Because the Endpoint Mapper runs within the RPC service itself, exploiting this vulnerability would cause the RPC service to fail, with the attendant loss of any RPC-based services the server offers, as well as potential loss of some COM functions.
  • Microsoft Security Bulletin MS04-029: This RPC Runtime library vulnerability was addressed in CAN-2004-0569, however the title is "Vulnerability in RPC Runtime Library Could Allow Information Disclosure and Denial of Service".
  • Microsoft Security Bulletin MS03-039: "There are three newly identified vulnerabilities in the part of RPCSS Service that deals with RPC messages for DCOM activation- two that could allow arbitrary code execution and one that could result in a denial of service. The flaws result from incorrect handling of malformed messages. These particular vulnerabilities affect the Distributed Component Object Model (DCOM) interface within the RPCSS Service. This interface handles DCOM object activation requests that are sent from one machine to another. An attacker who successfully exploited these vulnerabilities could be able to run code with Local System privileges on an affected system, or could cause the RPCSS Service to fail. The attacker could then be able to take any action on the system, including installing programs, viewing, changing or deleting data, or creating new accounts with full privileges. To exploit these vulnerabilities, an attacker could create a program to send a malformed RPC message to a vulnerable system targeting the RPCSS Service."
  • Microsoft Security Bulletin MS01-041: "Several of the RPC servers associated with system services in Microsoft Exchange Server, SQL Server, Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 do not adequately validate inputs, and in some cases will accept invalid inputs that prevent normal processing. The specific input values at issue here vary from RPC server to RPC server. An attacker who sent such inputs to an affected RPC server could disrupt its service. The precise type of disruption would depend on the specific service, but could range in effect from minor (e.g., the service temporarily hanging) to major (e.g., the service failing in a way that would require the entire system to be restarted)."

Perhaps we could summarise this and put it into that section? - Ta bu shi da yu 12:33, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Getting there...

... almost done with the Executive, haven't covered the object manager however. - Ta bu shi da yu 08:19, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Finished the object manager! - Ta bu shi da yu 08:09, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
Have dealt with the whole architecture now! woohoo! - Ta bu shi da yu 08:17, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Kernel mode and User mode

We need a brief description of this I think. - Ta bu shi da yu 05:56, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Aargh!

Footnotes are stuffed. Then again, so am I, so will look into resolving this later. - Ta bu shi da yu 08:54, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Footnotes fixed. - Ta bu shi da yu 02:06, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Hybird-kernel

A query about this sentence:

Windows 2000, like other modern operating systems is classed as a hybrid-kernel operating system, as its architecture is divided into two modes, a user mode and a kernel mode.

As I read that sentence it makes it sound like "hybrid-kernel" refers to the user/kernel split. AlistairMcMillan 03:03, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

Good point. Fixed this! - Ta bu shi da yu 05:05, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Microsoft notice board

Note: to start this off I'm posting this to a few Microsoft articles.

I have kicked this off as I think we can do a lot better on many of our Microsoft related articles. Windows XP is just one example of a whole bunch of people getting together to fix up issues of NPOV, fact and verifiability of an article. I think that no matter whether you like Microsoft or not that we could definitely do with a review of: a) the articles that we already have, and b) the articles that we should have in Wikipedia! - Ta bu shi da yu 02:06, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Argh!

Why do people keep removing my div tags? Notes should be, at best, smaller font size. - Ta bu shi da yu 02:37, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Try <small> instead. It's an HTML 4 tag.—Kbolino 04:50, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC)
OK. - Ta bu shi da yu 04:54, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Doesn't work. See this edit. - Ta bu shi da yu 04:55, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, the tag only applies to a block of text, like <strong> or <em>—it's overridden when the list begins a new block. I had not noticed where your tag was before I responded (I've tried it in the past and know it doesn't work). The only other way (besides <div> or <span> tags) would be with manual <ol> and <li> tags (applying the style to the <ol> tag).—Kbolino June 30, 2005 14:00 (UTC)

Update Rollup 1

Information on Update Rollup 1 should be added. See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/891861

Something else that should be added

Offline files (caching files in other words). Anyone game to give it a shot? Should go under common functionality. - Ta bu shi da yu 08:20, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Recovery Console

Nothing on this in the article. Unless anybody else really wanted to start it, I've put up a draft in my userspace. Yeah, I know ATM it feels a bit like a list or similar, but hey, it's better than nothing. --Niteice 01:46, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

  • Odd, it seems to have disappeared, at any rate, the new section is better than my draft. Also, my changes to the todo list (stating the recovery console part is pretty much done) don't seem to be showing up? --Niteice 04:44, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Much more to be done

I'd like to add a table of all the security flaws that affect Windows. Also, any info on Windows network should probably go in to this article also: I realise that it's getting large but it's important stuff. - 203.134.166.99 08:03, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Very good article

This article is much-better than my original text-book which was about W2K. --190.55.16.152 12:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC)AndresArce

Thanks! - Ta bu shi da yu 15:38, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
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