Wikipedia talk:WikiProject The Simpsons

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Wikipedia:WikiProject The Simpsons page.

See Archive 1 here. See Archive 2 here.

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[edit] Simpsons Alma Maters

I've put in an article request for a list of Simpsons characters by Alma Mater. I figure, there are easily enough characters in the series with affilations to real colleges and universities that such an article could be whipped up. E.G. Burns at Yale, Sideshow Mel at Cornell, Edna Krababble (sp?) at Bryn Mawr etc... Or a general Education in The Simpsons article that includes the fake universities, plus Springfield elementry and others --Xtreambar 04:29, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd have no objections, I don't know a great detail on the subject other than Springfield Elementary and other minor one offs. But yeah, if you want to do it yourself, or someone else does, be my guest. Could end up being quite a detailed and good article. Although maybe see what some other people have to say first as well though. Gran2 22:09, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, if Politics and Religion have articles, I think Eduction could have one. There is probably enough material from The Simpsons to have a pretty decent article.. -- Scorpion0422 22:13, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Here's an interesting page I found on The Simpsons Archive -- a list of Ivy League references in The Simpson http://www.snpp.com/guides/ivy.html . --Xtreambar 22:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I'm going to create a page so that we have something to work with and everyone can add to it from there. It'll be done in about an hour. -- Scorpion0422 22:46, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Would it be OK for me to assess some of the unassessed articles?

I think I could do a lot. Trosk 04:29, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Ask an administrator. I'm not sure what the policy is on such matters. -- Scorpion0422 04:35, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
It is okay. Sysops doesn't have to do everything. --Maitch 12:34, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Education in The Simpsons

I just finished the article, so please take a look and add stuff. It needs a LOT of work, but it has a decent start so any help is greatly appreciated. -- Scorpion0422 23:31, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quotes

Are they allowed on individual episode pages? Someone keeps deleting them from the episode pages and I'm not sure if they should be deleted. --The Dark Side 01:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I think they are generally frowned upon and a few quotes are allowed, but then you get the whole "which quote is more important than the other?" thing, so most people just clear the entire sections. -- Scorpion0422 01:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I thought the general theme was 'move all quotes to WikiQuote'? --Mortice 18:55, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes according to the project page, a task is move quotes from articles here to WikiQuote. It seems like the project forgot about that. If you look at many episode articles: huge quotes lists clutter the article. I've removed some, with a note of take it to WikiQuote. The history remains, so just go to that revision and then copy+paste to WikiQuote when needed. RobJ1981 19:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
What I would recommend, in moving quotes to WikiQuote, is to create individual articles on that Wiki-space (e.g., "Bart the Genius"). That way, there isn't a long list of clutter there. Then, just create a link to the appropriate Wikipedia episode article, and voila, problem solved. [[Briguy52748 21:13, 10 December 2006 (UTC)]]
We already asked this question at Wikiquote. They prefer if we create season articles. They don't like articles for single episodes. --Maitch 22:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Presumably the link to the season page on WikiQuote could link to the episode's section? Though I see there's currently only one page on WikiQuote for the whole of The Simpsons. Ah, after examination, that one page is just transclusions of season pages - cunning...

Do you think someone could either write up notes on the 'preferred format' for moving quotes to WikiQuote and updating the episode page with the link, or just choose a 'reference episode' from which other episodes can follow the format. Ideally all episode pages updated should be done in exactly the same way, so notes or a reference article would assist with that --Mortice 22:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


I've deleted a season and a half's worth of quotes - those should be on wikiquote. They are clearly marked in the history for anyone with an account over there who wants to take on the task. --Charlesknight 19:00, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
If you're going to the trouble of removing the quotes, isn't it just as easy to copy/paste them on to the wikiquote page for the season involved? It only takes a moment to register an account on wikiquote, if you feel you need to. It seems like double the work to now hope that someone else will dig out the quotes from your history to put them onto wikiquote --Mortice 19:09, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
That's what i thought. However, adding them to Wikiqoute is four or three times the work, as you have to check if its there, then move it, and all sorts of stuff.--ANDY+MCI=Andy Mci 19:10, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Wikiquote is a seperate (sister) project - all I care about is the standard of articles on Wikipedia and ensuring they complying with policy. Those quotes don't below here, if they never make it to wikiquote - well they were clearly not that important to people to start with. I'm a "standards" editor rather than someone who had a particular interest in any one subject. I'm spread thin as it is - I'm under no obligation to move them to wikiquote and it would take up time I could spend improving the quality of articles on wikipedia. A user above was using the same approach. Charlesknight 19:19, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Actually that's a bit harsh sounding - I'll attempt to move the material I removed over to wikiquote but I think it would be sensible if the project tried to do a bit more clean-up before creating new articles. --Charlesknight 19:27, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Featured Articles

I was looking through our stats and its kind of embarassing that we only have 1 featured article (which is a list, and thus easier to become featured) and 1 good artcle. Other projects (such as Project Nintendo) have a dozen of each. I think we, as a project, need to pull together and try to edit articles and get all of our Top priority articles up to GA or even better, FA status. I'm assuming that apart from the 2 GA/FA articles, the 5 Simpson family members are Top priority and thus we should focus on them. Perhaps we should do Homer first. So, what does everyone think? Should we pull together and get the Simpson family and othet Top importance articles upgraded. And what are all 10 of the Top priority articles? -- Scorpion0422 07:16, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I took a look and I'm pretty sure the 10 Top importance articles are:
  • Homer
  • Marge
  • Bart
  • Lisa
  • Maggie
  • Springfield
  • Matt Groening
  • The Simpsons Movie
  • Simpsons Episodes (FA)
  • The Simpsons (GA) -- Scorpion0422 07:23, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
I definitly agree with this. So yeah top priority pages: The Simpsons, Springfield, The Simpsons Movie, The Simpsons Family, Homer, Bart, Marge, Lisa, Maggie (other characters?) The Simpsons Roasting on an Open Fire, any other episodes? Anyway, we need to try and get a lot more articles to featured status. Gran2 07:24, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
I've been doing a little importance evaluating and I've bumped a few of the more major characters up to high, Al Jean, Brooks and Simon to high, Burns to Top and every other EP/long time writer to mid. Any complaints? -- Scorpion0422 07:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't see anything wrong, keep it up! Gran2 07:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
I assessed a bunch of articles and I think that with a little tweaking List of writers of The Simpsons and The Tracey Ullman Show shorts (which is modelled after the list of episodes) could make a successful run at becoming featured lists. -- Scorpion0422 09:00, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
As you know I'm working on getting The Simpsons to FA and it's close to getting there, but it still needs some work. Even though we have written a lot about Homer Simpson there's a long road to FA. The article lacks an out-of-universe perspective and a lot of citations. I'll probably be easier to make many of our lists featured. Also consider the episode lists for the individual seasons (e.g. The Simpsons (season 1), The Simpsons (season 2) etc.). --Maitch 12:07, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm all for getting lists made into FA and as soon as Guest Stars is accepted/declined, I'm going to start working on The Ullman Shorts and getting it ready. But, that does seem to be cheating a bit because it is quite a bit easier for lists to become featured and 3 featured lists isn't anywhere near as big an accomplishment as 3 featured articles. I'm proposing that as a project, we pick one page and within a month have it ready and waiting to become featured. Homer seems the most obvious candidate (Apart from THe Simpsons, but as Maitch said, its already close) but I'm open to suggestions. And, are any articles ready (as they are now) to take a stab at becoming Good Articles? I thought Maggies page was the closest of the 5 family members (although she also needs work). -- Scorpion0422 16:36, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
The problem is that while we have many participants, there are just a very little group of people who actually does something productive. The very fact that you have to fight trivia and vandalism on a daily basis scares anybody who wants to make positive contributions. I would take the easy route, because I can't see any other article than The Simpsons reaching FA without getting better participants. --Maitch 17:26, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

We should move through the pages of importance, everyone editing them to get them better. It would help if there is an order to it, and one that is easy to remember e.g.

Main characters first, by age:
  1. Homer
  2. Marge
  3. Bart
  4. Lisa
  5. Maggie
Then do the creators, in order of importance
  1. Matt Greoning
No idea about beyond this because i don't know about their varying importance. Then these articles, which in order of importance.
  1. Mr. Burns
  2. Chief Wiggum
  3. Apu Nahasapeemapetilon
  4. Kwik-e-mart
  5. Nelson Muntz

And more. Feel free to edit this post to add/remove/rearrange pages at will.--ANDY+MCI=Andy Mci 16:54, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I think this is fine - the main family members should be priority, and doing it in order of age makes as much sense as any other order. I'm not really sure about the other characters, although I would add Ned Flanders on that list, since he's in nearly every episode. Natalie 19:28, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I'll make a subpage with the to do for the Featured Articles.--ANDY+MCI=Andy Mci 20:26, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

WIkipedia talk:WIkiProject The Simpsons/Featured Article drive


[edit] Archive?

Is it time to archive this page yet? Seems long to me... Natalie 19:29, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Considering the first archive was WAY shorter than this page is now. Yes, it is time. Gran2 19:34, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Hell yes.--ANDY+MCI=Andy Mci 19:35, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Okay then. Having looked at how to archive a talk page, I have just discovered that there are different possible procedures. Assuming there are no reasons not to, I'll do the cut and paste kind (seems easiest). Natalie 19:52, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Where should Staff Rank in Importance?

I've been assessing the importance of SImpsons articles, and the staff has been tough, but here's what I've done. Opinions needed.

  • High - Brooks, Sam Simon, Al Jean, George Meyer, John Swartzwelder, David Silverman
  • Mid - Oakley, Weinstein, Reiss, Scully, Mirkin, Vitti, Conan O'Brian, Greg Daniels, Ian maxtone-Graham, David X. Cohen, Matt Selman, Mark Kirkland, Jim Reardon
  • Low - The Rest

NOTE - The ones in italics are the ones I'm not sure about...

The issue:

  • Should showrunners be High priority?
  • Should the original staffers - Jeff Martin, Kogen, Wollodarsky, etc - be mid priority?
  • Should some of the more prolific writers be given mid status? Which ones?
  • Where do some of the early directors stand?

-- Scorpion0422 00:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Do we need a List of Directors?

I was looking through and I noticed that there is a List of writers of The Simpsons, but no list of directors. I was wondering if anyone thinks that there is a pressing need for one. -- Scorpion0422 05:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm doing this thing that I've typed to you about before (see next section) about list generation using a bot - perhaps Directors would be a good candidate (have to do some de-duplication I guess) --Mortice 18:33, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
So could youmake the bot so it listed every director, plus the episodes they directed? -- Scorpion0422 18:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal for updates to Season 18 pages for evaluating bot list generation

I'd like to add some templates to the pages of all the episodes (so far) in Season 18. These will have no visible effect, but are used by the bot ListGenBot to read data from the pages and compile lists.

This bot is currently approved for testing, so I am only proposing changing Season 18. The bot will generate pages containing the data on the episode pages, ordered by section or alphabetically - see User:ListGenBot/Details for full details.

I'm aware that many of the data items on these pages already have list pages, but I propose generating independent list pages from the bot and evaluate the worth of adding some of those lists (dynamically updated) to other pages.

My proposal is to make invisible updates to the Season 18 episode pages but the bot will only read these pages, it will make no updates, so there is no risk of corrupting existing episode data. I'll add the templates with HTML comments to explain their use.

I'll create list pages that the bot will maintain (probably as subpages of this page) until their worth is evaluated and there's a consensus to integrate them into other pages. If there is that consensus, I'll add the templates to all the other episode pages.

Please let me know if anyone has concern or wants clarification with this exercise --Mortice 18:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Like what kind of list pages are you thinking of? Most of the noteworthy lists are done. Or do you mean you could make it so that existing lists are automatically updated? -- Scorpion0422 18:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed after some browsing that the current list pages are quite well developed with details beyond just lists, but I think this process could help with either an alphabetic summary or per-episode lists. Take a look at User:MorticeTest/out#GuestStarsOnTheSimpsons which is an example of guest stars (from two copies of episode pages) in both list formats.
Yes, the 'charm' of this is that the bot (once fully approved) will run regularly to ensure the list is always up to date compared to the episode pages - new episode means all lists updated in sync with no other interference. And if needed I can tweak the way the bot generates the list to entirely reformat it (change sort order, for instance)
My thought for the purpose of this test (on the series 18 pages) is to put the template tags around 'everything' on those episode pages - air date, writer, director, couch gag, guest stars, perhaps some parts of the body text (trivia?) and see how the resultant lists look. The ones we decide are worthwhile we can deploy to the other episode pages --Mortice 19:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I've experimentally edited the first 5 (so far) pages of Season 18 to add invisible bot tags (templates delimiting interesting data), and the lists generated can be seen on Wikipedia:WikiProject The Simpsons/Example generated lists.

This page is currently a mess because it's an accumulation of every list that could be generated from the data on the episode pages, but if you pick thorugh it, there's some interesting things that could be used on other pages, such as list of directors or blocks of trivia grouped by page. All these lists can be generated per-season or across all seasons (same thing so far since only 5 episodes of one season have had the bot tags added).

Once the bot is running properly, newly created episode pages will be automatically added to all these lists within a few mins of creating the episode page (not yet because bot's in test).

You should find no visible change to the episode pages and you may find some use from the stuff on Wikipedia:WikiProject The Simpsons/Example generated lists - let me know what you think --Mortice 23:57, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

For the guest stars list, go for it with the alphabetical one. But for the current list, the doesn't seem to list band members or anything, so I think just doing it manually is fine for the time being - the list is completed anyway. But for directors, go ahead for a bot-generated list. -- Scorpion0422 00:05, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, Scorpion0422. I'll certainly keep tagging the 'guest stars' and 'directors'. By 'current list', I guess you mean the current guest stars page there? I'm quite happy not to change any of that - if you want you can copy the lists you want from that test page to wherever you think they need to go, and they'll be updated by the bot as long as you keep the 'start' and 'end' templates that are at the top and bottom of the list now.
I'm quite tempted to keep tagging all sections, just because most of the awkwardness of adding the tags is in visiting the pages so it would be most efficient to add the ten or so tags to the sections on each episode page. Any objection to that?
I'm making an update to the bot which will mean that, in effect, it will produce a list of the episodes that each director has directed, etc (in a more useful format than the one you've seen so far).
I'll put out a 'call for assistance' asking folk to take a season and add the tags to it (I'll have to produce instructions on how to add the tags). But first the bot needs to be approved --Mortice 20:37, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
While I'm having a little trouble following this discussion (technical details not my interest or forte) I'm more than willing to take a couple of seasons if it just means adding tags to each article. Natalie 03:22, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
So we just go through every episode capsule and stick tags to it? yeah sure.--ANDY+MCI=Andy Mci 08:19, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Yep, just making similar edits (adding templates) to all ov the episode pages. You can see teh sort of thing that needs doing if you look at The Mook, the Chef, the Wife and Her Homer in edit mode and see the lines starting 'ListGenBot'. I'll write up some proper instructions on how to edit a page. It's great to hear there's people willing to help out :) --Mortice 12:45, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

For your interest, I've written up instructions on the edits that are required at Wikipedia:WikiProject The Simpsons/Addling ListGenBot tags to episode pages but you'd better not do too much yet since the bot isn't approved so won't update the list pages yet, but I'd appreciate any comments on those notes. You can claim interest in handling a season too, if you like. Don't be put off by the length of the instructions, it's quite straightforward really :) --Mortice 22:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I might as well just do a few right now before i can't be bothered. I put my name on seasons 1 and 2, so i'll start that.--ANDY+MCI=Andy Mci 17:27, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I've done the infobox for every episode up to The Call of the Simpsons, but i need to do homework now.--ANDY+MCI=Andy Mci 18:00, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Well done Andy, I've spotted and fixed a bug in the bot (caused by leaving spaces on the end of the bot tags) so you should be able to see the results of your work now on Wikipedia:WikiProject The Simpsons/Example generated lists. I'll run the bot periodically so you may see updates happening to that page later.
There is a problem you can see there - a few pages like Homer's Odyssey have multiple writers on seperate lines with an '&' on its own line - so on the generated page, the '&' is credited as being a writer! I think we can fix up problems like that later, either by using the format as on Moaning Lisa or just putting each writer on its own line --Mortice 18:40, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
I'll help out by doing work on some of the middle seasons. I'll get started in an hour or so... -- Scorpion0422 23:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks Scorpion - if you could edit your place into the list on Wikipedia:WikiProject The Simpsons/Addling ListGenBot tags to episode pages it will stop clashing with anyone else --Mortice 20:51, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

ListGenBot is now Approved! So it's running 'continuously' and you should find once you update an episode, the lists on Wikipedia:WikiProject The Simpsons/Example generated lists should update within a few minutes. We could also generate lists similar to the ones on that page but just for info about a single season, if anyone wants one --Mortice 20:51, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

If anyone's editing a season, they can check the updates just to that season by clicking on the link next to the season at Wikipedia:WikiProject The Simpsons/Addling ListGenBot tags to episode pages --Mortice 21:42, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of Stereotypes in the Simpsons

I had this idea yesterday, for a list of all stereotypes in the Simpsons that are seen at one point or another. So there could be important to minor characters such as Groundskeeper Willie and Cletus under characters, and one time group things such as the school uniforms in Team Homer. I think this would be a decent article, if worked on. Does anyone else support?--ANDY+MCI=Andy Mci 18:03, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it could be fine, but maybe not really priority right now. It seems to me that most (nearly all) of the Simpsons related articles are in horrendous shape - excessively informal tone, too long, too in-universe - and these should be the first order of business. But that's just my opinion. Natalie 18:17, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, i guess. Can i make it and work on it slowly, and get help later?--ANDY+MCI=Andy Mci 18:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be willing to help at some point in time. Natalie 18:28, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Cool, i'll start it now.--ANDY+MCI=Andy Mci 18:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Query

The episode capsule The Cartridge Family contains this trivia: "As of this episode, everyone with the surname "Simpson", has fired a gun." No one reads discussions on the capsule pages, so I'm asking this here: when? I don't think Bart shot a gun until Bart the Mother (season 10), and I don't think Lisa or Mona have ever shot a gun. Natalie 02:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Unless she does in The Cartridge Family, its been a while since I've seen it, I don't she has fired a gun before hand. I'm also certain that Mona hasn't. Bart did in Homer the Vigilante though, so that's right at least. But if its completely proved wrong then edit it to say "except for Lisa and Mona", or just remove the whole thing. Gran2 13:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Since I got an answer here, I'll ask another question. Ned's mother keeps being named Mona on List of characters from The Simpsons. I don't remember her ever being given a name, and our own page on Ned says his parents have never been named. Does anyone else remember his mom being named? Natalie 01:31, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I think it most have been Sweet Seymour Skinner's Badasss Song.

Ned: Gee Homer, it's only because my parents where so hard on me.
Flashback
Ned: Whoopsidoodle
Dad: Oh man! Ned spilt ink all over my poems! He's putting us on the train to squaresville Mona.

It may have been another episode, but that's pretty much the quote. Gran2 07:08, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request for assistance - adding tags to episode pages

There's a project afoot to make some (invisible) updates to episode pages which will assist in generating lists of information for other pages, using ListGenBot.

If you would like to help out, there's details of what to do at Wikipedia:WikiProject The Simpsons/Addling ListGenBot tags to episode pages, and a table there where you can claim interest in editing a particular season. Thanks --Mortice 21:02, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Season 2

I've been making some changes to the Season 2 page and I think it will be ready for a run at Featured List. My only concern is that it may not be considered notable enough. Anyway, take a look at the page and make any changes you deem necessary. -- Scorpion0422 21:03, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

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