Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Soap Operas

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[edit] Possible policy for soap articles

I've found that users from other nations have complained that there are spoilers in the articles. Since their airdates are years behind ours, I feel this can't really be helped, because these are articles on American shows, so the information should be known as soon as it airs. At the same time, on soap actor articles and the soap articles themselves, the soap bots formerly known as User:B-Movie Bandit have been adding information on casting defections and additions before they even air. I don't feel this is right because this is an encyclopedia, and it's only going to be truly fact when one sees them on the screen. After all, Larry Hagman was scheduled to be on The Bold and the Beautiful until scheduling conflicts caused him to bail out at the last minute. What kind of service are we doing to our readers if we publish tentative information from a soap magazine only to have it be false? That's not facts and not encyclopedic. That's why I propose the policy that cast changes only be posted when they air in the United States (this stipulation included because Canada airs the shows one day ahead). Mike H 07:16, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)

That sounds very reasonable to me. Encyclopedias should contain fact, not rumor. Foobaz·o< 07:23, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The articles should contain spoiler warnings, if they don't already. This isn't just beneficial for shows that have aired years before in a seperate market, but also to someone who recorded the show during a month-long vacation and wants to read an article to freshen up on what happened. As for the bot, I agree with you, Wikipedia shouldn't be a rumor mill. The article should stick to describing plots that have already occurred, at least in one major market. --jag123 07:30, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Liberal use of the spoiler template is always welcome to give people a chance to look away, we do that for very old books and films too. There is always going to be somebody who hasn't seem something yet, and that's just the way it is. On the speculative material, you may not need a new policy. Wikipedia:Verifiability and related areas pretty muchj cover that, right? --iMb~Mw 07:35, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Books and films are different than television shows that are still running at five days a week. It's not that the casting moves are speculation (they're well documented in Soap Opera Digest), it's just that you get into the realm of "should this be in an encyclopedia article considering it hasn't aired yet?" I don't think it's unreasonable to hold off on putting a cast change in an article until it actually airs on television in the market it's intended. Mike H 07:43, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)
You nailed it yourself with the Larry Hagman example. It's speculation or at best tentative until it airs, so it really doesn't belong here until the broadcast date.
Media isn't the only are where i've got issues with this sort of vagueness. We have an article, for example, on what is believed to be a probable configuratin of the planet's continents in the distant future, with no real explanation of why that configuration is believed to be likely (and at the other end, we have articles on a few past configurations without any real explanation of why those are believed to have existed, in that order). I think that at the very least, when speculative things are written, that some indication should be given of the parts we don't know. --iMb~Mw 07:52, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I agree that we should be very conservative on adding speculations. It's the job of Soap Opera Digest and other media to report the daily news and rumors. Zzyzx11 07:56, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Good one, Mike. Another great idea! - Lucky 6.9 08:30, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
This ties in directly with Wiki policy versus speculation. Providing factual information regarding announcements of future candidates for casting, for example, is perfectly sound in my opinion. Stating that "there has been speculation over who will play.." is also fine, as this will most likely be reported by entertainment magazines too. Directly giving away an unreleased plot or unannounced cast list is not good. --Intimidated 08:44, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
But that's just it...people will not see announced cast members on screen for weeks or even months, so why should it be in the article proper? I don't think Wikipedia should be a breaking news soap casting site...that's why there are such sites, and that's why there is Soap Opera Digest. jag123 brought up a good example. What if Kelli Giddish were to die? Her few days of scenes would probably not air, and they'd scramble to rewrite the story, since she's a completely new character. Mike H 08:46, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)
It can easily be debated whether or not your source is in a position to accurately confirm or deny any facts regarding a project not maintained by them. People who want that kind of gossip can get it elsewhere. I see no real advantage to having that info in the article (especially since it's pertaining to a future event) and many disadvantages, such as turning out to be wrong and spoiling plots. --jag123 08:53, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Would this proposed rule also apply to *new* soaps which have yet to pilot? Given this proposal that articles should only be written in the past or present tense, this would also affect a readers' ability to find factual information on upcoming programmes. --Intimidated 09:21, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I personally don't like the way the talk page is factored right now, for one. No other talk pages do the split for each comment. It is quite clear that this has to deal with existing soap operas. Are you trying to make a loophole argument? Because we can have consensus on all soaps, past, present, and future, and make a proposition for each. This doesn't HAVE to be limited to current shows if that's what you're suggesting. Mike H 09:44, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)
Apologies for the splits, I felt it improved the readability of the comments. I've removed them. My above argument was intended to demonstrate why the suggested rule would be overly restrictive. You can not make a general statement claiming that factual information describing future events regarding soaps is bad for Wiki. For example, I would like to see information in an article telling me the filming location of an upcoming episode. I think you are viewing wiki as a traditional encyclopedia, but it has the flexibility to be entirely more functional than that. --Intimidated 10:17, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The only thing factual about the network (if it's even them that confirm filming locations, not some second or third-hand source) stating that the filming location for a Fall episode will be at Anytown, USA is that the network intends to film the episode there. Until it actually happens or at least starts, it's not "factual" that the filming location *was* or *is* Anytown, USA. You're inserting information in an article that is being confirmed, by a second-hand source based on information they received from someone they don't reveal. I really don't believe that this follows the spirit of verifying or citing sources. Re: pilots, a very good argument could be made regarding whether or not this is notable. There are probably dozens of pilots being proposed / filmed on any given day, and I doubt any large majority actually make it on TV. There are many current events that have articles written about them, and at that time, are important / media darlings, but get successfully VfD'ed anyway. In contrast to soap pilots, many more people are aware of shootings or police standoffs because when they happen, that's all anyone sees on the news, so I don't think a soap pilot, which interest relatively less people, is a good way to make an argument. --jag123 21:30, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Comment: For related IRC discussion, see User:TheCustomOfLife/Soap_policy_discussion. Mike H 07:41, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)


These soap pages tend to get updated very frequently according to the most recent information. Cast members that have not already aired are usualy listed as "Starting March 21st" or "Spring 2005" or when they are about to leave they say "Until February 24th". As an online encyclopedia there is a possibility of providing the most up-to-date information to readers.

Linda Dano is an example of an actor who is listed who has not apeared yet. When it was announced that she would be joining Guiding Light the cast list simply read "To Be Announced Character, possibly Felicia Gallant (starting April 2005)". Although the Felicia Gallant part has been proved incorrect, that has since been removed with no harm done.

I agree that there should be a spoiler warning when the artical section deals with storyline details, however, If your watching a show in another country, when you reseach the show online you are always at risk of running into spoilers. ( althought why anyone watching cancelled soaps I don't know...but If they started playing Family Passions again I would probably tune in.

If I have made some error in writing this please excuse it as I am relatively new to this. User:Dowew

As an online encyclopedia there is a possibility of providing the most up-to-date information to readers.
Actually, that falls under Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. Wikipedia should not offer news reports on breaking stories (however, our sister project Wikinews does exactly that). Wikipedia does have many encyclopedia articles on topics of historical significance that are currently in the news. Mike H 22:44, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, but the current cast isn't exactly news. Its just information of the current status of the show. Personally, I like this feature as it is much more simple than imdb which lists everybody who has ever apeared in the show in alphabetical order no matter their contract status.

Perhaps there should be a seperate cast category for actors who have yet to apeare ? I like the fact that the AMC article has a category for deceased cast member ( obviously this should be used sparingly for actors who have mage large contributions to the show).

As long as the actor is listed with an atribute like (Starting Spring 2005) I don't think this counts as too much of a spoiler.

Pherhaps if there is a seperate category for incoming cast that could include a spoiler warning ? Just my two cents. User:Dowew

I can live with a "comings and goings section" as long as it's at the bottom, under recurring cast members (and above dead cast members, where applicable). This is not what I think is best for the article, but I'll live with it since you don't seem willing to try these other suggestions.
See what I've done with Guiding Light. I still stand by my other objection; the comings and goings do not need to be in actor articles until they actually air. My big example is the Linda Dano article; as soon as ANY information was available, the article was edited with "she may be playing Felicia again!" which helps nobody, frankly, since she isn't. I also didn't appreciate knowing that A.C. Mallet will be back on Guiding Light, which is fairly big spoiler news since that character hasn't been on in a dozen years. Mike H 21:54, Mar 10, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Not capitalizing the o in operas

The lack of capitalization on the o looks jarring and just plain stupid. I've moved the page back. Mike H 21:21, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Progress & new Templates section

I've added information on the soap opera character stubs on the main page for this WikiProject. Courtland July 1, 2005 10:09 (UTC)

[edit] Articles for the Wikipedia 1.0 project

Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-class and good B-class articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles on soap operas? Please post your suggestions here. Thanks a lot! Walkerma 06:09, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] irna Phillips peer review

I have added a peer review request for Irna Phillips's page. I am hoping some people can add things. Dowew 02:49, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Key articles for Wikipedia 1.0

Hello! We at the Work via WikiProjects team previously contacted you to identify the quality articles in your WikiProject, and now we need a few more favors. We would like you to identify the "key articles" from your project that should be included in a small CD release due to their importance, regardless of quality. We will use that information to assess which articles should be nominated for Version 1.0 and later versions. Hopefully it will also help you identify which articles are the most important for the project to work on. As well, please consider adding to your Arts WikiProject article table any articles of high quality. If you are interested in developing a worklist such as this one for your WikiProject, or having a bot generate a worklist automatically for you, please contact us. Not sure if this project is still active, but if you are, please get in touch. Thanks! Walkerma 04:42, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project Directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:

  • User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory,
  • User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2,
  • User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory,
  • User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory,
  • User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory,
  • User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States, (note: This page will be retitled to more accurately reflect its contents)
  • User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory, and
  • User:Badbilltucker/Science directory

and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 21:52, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now put the new draft in the old directory pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you. B2T2 00:37, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stablepedia

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See Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team#Stablepedia. If you wish to comment, please comment there. ★MESSEDROCKER★ 23:22, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

End cross-post. Please do not comment more in this section.

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