Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Singaporean places

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Contents 1 Infoboxes 2 WikiProject setup 3 Maps 4 hierarchial organisation 5 Dormant? 6 new link for master plan 7 Revival 8 Project directory

[edit] Infoboxes

It seems that two separate and parallel systems of articles are being written about various places in Singapore.

The first one is more general:

edit	Places in Singapore
Aljunied | Ang Mo Kio | Ayer Rajah | Bedok | Benoi | Bishan | Boon Lay | Buangkok | Bugis | Bukit Batok | Bukit Gombak | Bukit Ho Swee | Bukit Merah | Bukit Panjang | Bukit Timah | Buona Vista | Central Area | Central Water Catchment | Chai Chee | Changi | Changi Bay | Changi East | Chinatown | Choa Chu Kang | Clementi | Commonwealth | Defu | Dhoby Ghaut | Dover | East Coast | Emerald Hill | Eunos | Farrer Park | Geylang | Gul | HarbourFront | Holland Village | Hougang | Jalan Besar | Jalan Kayu | Joo Chiat | Jurong (Jurong East | Jurong West) | Kaki Bukit | Kallang | Kampong Glam | Katong | Kembangan | Kent Ridge | Kolam Ayer | Kranji | Lim Chu Kang | Little India | Lorong Halus | Loyang | MacPherson | Mandai | Marina Bay | Marina Centre | Marina East | Marina South | Marine Parade | Marymount | Mountbatten | Murai | Nanyang | Neo Tiew | Newton | Novena | One-North | Orchard Road | Outram | Pandan | Pasir Laba | Pasir Panjang | Pasir Ris | Paya Lebar | Pioneer | Potong Pasir | Punggol | Queenstown | Radin Mas | Raffles Place | River Valley | Sarimbun | Seletar | Sembawang | Sengkang | Senoko | Serangoon | Serangoon Gardens | Shenton Way | Siglap | Simei | Simpang | Sin Ming | Southern Islands | St. Michael | Sungei Kadut | Taman Jurong | Tampines | Tanah Merah | Tanjong Pagar | Tanjong Rhu | Tanglin | Telok Ayer | Telok Blangah | Tengah | Thomson | Tiong Bahru | Toa Payoh | Tuas | Ubi | West Coast | Western Water Catchment | Woodlands | Yew Tee | Yio Chu Kang | Yishun

The second one is about new towns specifically:

edit	New towns and estates in Singapore
New towns: Ang Mo Kio New Town | Bedok New Town | Bishan New Town | Bukit Batok New Town | Bukit Merah | Bukit Panjang New Town | Choa Chu Kang New Town | Clementi New Town | Geylang | Hougang New Town | Jurong East New Town | Jurong West New Town | Kallang | Pasir Ris New Town | Punggol New Town | Queenstown | Sembawang New Town | Sengkang New Town | Serangoon New Town | Simei New Town | Tampines New Town | Toa Payoh New Town | Woodlands New Town | Yishun New Town
Estates: Bukit Timah | Changi Village | Kembangan | Macpherson | Marine Parade | Potong Pasir | Tiong Bahru

There is a very high level of duplication between these two series of articles. I think they should be merged together, e.g. Jurong East New Town -> Jurong East. What does everyone think? -- ran (talk) 22:37, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

Merge them. They all seem to direct to the same place anyway. --khaosworks 22:51, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

I understand they look similar now, but there is a plan soon to develop them all as seperates pages. I explained before that Ang Mo Kio, for example, is not the same as Ang Mo Kio New Town. Jurong East is only relevant when talking about a new town, but it is not exactly a general place name. Rather, Jurong is. I will change that link now.--Huaiwei 15:29, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

I see... so why not merge the two boxes together? I understand what you mean, but the current arrangement is really confusing. -- ran (talk) 23:47, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

For example, the current Ang Mo Kio article starts with: "Ang Mo Kio is a heartland new town...". To further complicate matters, there's another article called Ang Mo Kio Planning Area.

The truth is, although there may be differences between say Tampines and Tampines New Town, right now pairs like these (Tampines, Bishan, etc.) are little better than duplicates of each other. I say we should merge them together for now. Specific information about new towns can be explained within each article. -- ran (talk) 02:14, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

I know. The Tampines one is actually one of the many examples in which the articles were "wrongly" writtern. The text in Tampines should be in Tampines New Town instead. How about this...gimme about 3 weeks from now (I am going overseas soon, so thats one week gone at least), and I will try to clear the mess up and develop on the pages? Hopefully by then, it will become clearer why the pages are arranged as such? Of coz, anyone is open to emback on this project at anytime too. In fact, I am considering making this a collaborative wikiproject considering the amount of work and content involved. ;) --Huaiwei 05:46, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, but the templates should have a form of being linked/recognised to each other (maybe in finer print)? Ie. if you see here where I brought up taxonomy and interlinking - just for even farther into the future so that since we're doing all this work now, we should work with some degree of foresight so we don't have to redo the entire thing in the years to come. ;-) -- Natalinasmpf 04:50, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject setup

I just managed to do up the Wikipedia:WikiProject Singaporean places page, although it needs refining coz I wrote it in like 15 minutes or less? :D Feel free to look through, edit and comment. I am loking for folks to join me in the project of coz! ;) --Huaiwei 11:17, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Hey, I'm joining in! Although I'm currently "out-of-state" and don't have much resources. However, I have prepared some maps (see Wikipedia:WikiProject Singaporean places/Maps), originally intended for Singapore general election, 2001, but may also be useful here. The maps are very much in drafting stage, also cannot vow for its precision (Spore's land keeps changing anyway). The map is derived primarily from URA Development Guide plans for planning areas, but has been significantly modified and augmented with other maps; therefore should be safe for use. Unless better maps are available, we can build the locator maps from these: first need to select the color scheme and double-check the boundaries, etc. Some places seem odd to me, but I may have been away for too long  ;-) -- Vsion 01:43, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Oh my god...finally someone does it!! :D But one issue, and that is it is using a very old base map, and shows reclaimation plans which are no longer accurate now. See [1] for an example of current reclamation profiles, although some small changes are neccesary on the Tekong side thanks to the recent Malaysia-Singapore land reclamation dispute resolution agreements....I am so sorry if this means you have to rework it. Or can you show us how you did this? We need maps for new towns as well! :D --Huaiwei 06:41, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm just using simple tool from ACDSee (similar to photoshop) and Windows Paint (no kidding), using alot of "fill" and contrast-control operations. I just uploaded the outline-map of "concept plan 2001" for comparison (see Wikipedia:WikiProject Singaporean places/Maps). Major differences in Tuas and Changi sides. I'm totally ignorant of these plans; was seriously wondering why there is an island along East Coast; and Tekong is beyond recognition. Is there any map/description about the foresee change in Tekong side? It shouldn't take long to make these changes. For the new towns, what are the good reference maps available online? -- Vsion 08:11, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

I didnt know you are not even in Singapire. Not bad! ;) I might have to end up manually tracing the maps on my pc, to help you in this one, and yeah, I do believe in the power of the numble Microsoft Paint as well. ;) (Heck, I might end up using Microsoft Powerpoint to do the MRT system map!). For Tekong, we have to wait a while more, because the last time I saw the changes was in an ST article, and I might have to either dig it up, or we have to wait for the next country map to be produced by the authorities. Btw, these plans do indicate profiles which are pending reclamation, such as the one at Pulau Ubin, which was delayed thanks to Chek Jawa. The profile off Pasir Panjang may be changed too, as I saw plans to reconfigure the port outline. Man...this is just irritating! :D As for new town maps, how about the (low quality) ones in [2] (page 87)? Oh btw, shall I move this discussion to Wikipedia:WikiProject Singaporean places?--Huaiwei 09:38, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Yes, please move the discussion, but leave some portion here. When I google-image "Singapore Map", every map looks different, and really the Land is alive and growing. As I haven't found a decent-looking map of the current land, I actually prefer the map from "concept plan 2001". We should be forward looking anyway, also the map seems less distorted (URA won't get it wrong, right?); but not sure if there will be any objection to include the future reclaimed lands. Hopefully there will be consensus on which base-map to use, but if we do need to use different maps for different projects; at least the maps should be rectified to each other, so that we can combine different data, (e.g. MRT lines with New Towns , etc). I have some idea how to do the rectification (Affine_transformation). For the MRT map itself, it is really tough and not sure if Powerpoint is the correct tool. But I'm not familiar with vector drawing tools and can't really give any suggestion now. -- Vsion 19:50, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Maps

There is a prototype locator map for Ang Mo Kio in Wikipedia:WikiProject Singaporean places/Maps. An outline map of current coastline (without futuristic land) is available, together with boundaries of Singapore regions. Greatly appreciate if you guys can take a look and give any comment (error, mistakes, etc) and suggestion (new features, labelling, resolution, color scheme, etc). The framework is already there, so addition modification is usually very simple and easy. Once the prototype design is firmed, we can move on to the mass-production stage, create the locator maps for the 40+ regions and upload to their respective articles. :-) -- Vsion 12:49, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC).

I like it...other then it having the old outline. :D As promised above, I will try to get you a better map. Meanwhile, the Ang Mo Kio map is actually on the wrong page...it should be in Ang Mo Kio Planning Area! :D

Thanks for the feedback. I also hope you can check if all the yellow islands belong to Singapore (don't want to create a diplomatic row here). I am using a layered approach, i.e. the coastline, JB, interior water bodies, and the regional boundaries, etc. are placed at different layers and later combined. So, if you give me a new coastline profile map, I only need to replace that layer, as long as it is not too distorted and I can do the rectification. Once the layers are ready, combining is just automatic. The base map I used for the prototype is figured from the mid-1990s, pretty recent in geological time-scale, except in Singapore, :P . As for Ang Mo Kio, man ... this is totally confusing. May I know where can I get the boundary for Ang Mo Kio? Is it a subset of the sub-zones in the URA plan? I should have work on a west coast region first, where I'm more familiar with. Also in progress now is the new towns and estate, using the hdb reference you give me; that layer will soon be ready for inspection. -- Vsion 19:02, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No problem. Btw I think I forgot to answer yr queries above...so allow me to get to them soon. What you are doing sounds exactly like what I did in my GIS study..haha...but did you do it using Photoshop or what? ;) Yellow islands? Where? Oh btw, do note that the map you derived from [3] is so outdated, that the boundaries for the downtown area is slightly wrong now thanks to changes in reclamation alignment plans. Also, you can safely delete "Jalan Jayu" from the map, as the whole area there comes under Sengkang.

As for the thing on Ang Mo Kio, the interesting thing about most articles in this wikiproject is that they actually have fluid boundaries. Only HDB towns, URA planning areas, postal districts, political consituencies, etc, have fixed boundaries we can map. Therefore, how about a set of maps with a topographic background (or any other background to "beautify it", and with the place name alone indicating the approximate location for these, totally devoid of internal boundaries?

For the new town maps, I am trying to find time to get to the library so that I can possibly scan a better map. But I suspect the resources in NUS is much better then the one at NLB. Since I wont be able to go to the NUS library soon, I would suggest that you try to sap as much resources from the NUS library as you can for the rest of your NUS career...some thing I wished I had done. Too bad I discovered wikipedia too late! :D--Huaiwei 20:15, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"topographic background"? haha ... do you have the DEM? And how about a map of land usage, which is very useful. For the New Towns, I may just upload what is currently available, then KIV while waiting for your better map. Maybe will start thinking about expressways (what would be the higher priorities ?). The yellow islands may appear as white on LCD monitor (i.e. same color as singapore mainland), it's pretty yellow on my CRT. I am thinking about using a darker blue for the water. Also I did not include some indonesian islands on the far bottom right, is that ok? Yeah, I'm aware that the downtown area is in a mess and don't know what to do about it. I'm mainly using ACDSee (similar functionality as photoshop) to extract the layers, and I wrote a program to do the rectification, coloring and combining automatically. The text labelling is currently in powerpoint. -- Vsion 21:50, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

New maps are uploaded to Wikipedia:WikiProject Singaporean places/Maps (Figure A1, A2, D1 and E1). Is this the current coastline? There is some confusion in the changi area, hence the difference between A1 and A2. Also I'm puzzled by the tuas end. According to my reference, the tuas end has a perfect-vertical coastline; but I'm not sure if this is due to image clipped off. Please take a look and comment, thanks. -- Vsion 05:11, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] hierarchial organisation

If you see from here, I lamented about some of the confusion I had in organising the places and articles. However, what I plan to do is eventually create a new template for Singapore's places that eventually breaks down into sections. What I propose is Region => Planning Area => Town (if its the Central Area, this would include the subdivision)...this would especially resolve the fact that Little India, Singapore and Chinatown, Singapore, Raffles Place and Kampong Glam are not specifically referenced in both Districts and places in Singapore and List of neighbourhoods in Singapore - they are districts within those towns. After some extensive research, I'm assuming the Downtown Core is the former European Town of Singapore, west of the Singapore River, and Kampong Glam is part of Rochor, while Chinatown is in Outram, west of the Singapore River, but they are all part of the Central Area, Singapore's central business district. Gah, all the different historical names! It reminds me of Huaiwei finding out that Kent Ridge used to be Pasir Panjang Ridge! ;-)

The New Towns of Singapore seems quite specific, so I will leave that as a specific thing to be referenced in a higher template, rather than placing it under a hierarchy. Any idea on how to incorporate this, especially into the main Singapore article, as taxonomical breakdown and mention of urban planning I think is highly important? -- Natalinasmpf 05:50, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dormant?

Apparantly this wikiproject has become sort of dominant after some time. Any collective interest in igniting work on it once again?--Huaiwei 12:23, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] new link for master plan

The old one I gave Vsion seems to have been broken: I restore it now: http://spring.ura.gov.sg/dcd/eservices/sop/main.cfm?view=mpview....might have a tad of trouble in Firefox where ActiveX isn't enabled, but might work for Konqueror users in Linux et al. -- Natalinasmpf 21:59, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Revival

Looks like we need to revive this inactive WikiProject. --Terence Ong 11:05, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 15:11, 25 October 2006 (UTC)