Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Puerto Rico

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[edit] Recommendations

  • Gather more participants
  • Start a collaboration of the week or collaboration of the month (similar to the adopt an article)
  • Move the articles section to a sub-article. Reason: This section is very long but it is necessary. It is good to recognize good contributions and achievements.
  • Write, write , write

Joelito 00:59, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mayagüez-related articles

As you may notice from my user page, I've decided to concentrate my efforts in articles about Mayagüez and its people. Folks, I need help fixing these... I've done my best to de-stub quite a few, but applying decent editing criteria and verifying references is a pain in the rear end. Any help will be more than appreciated. Demf 16:59, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I will try to help where I can. I currently live in Mayagüez so I may be able to take some pictures if necessary. Joelito (talk) 19:46, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of Puerto Ricans

One of the main concerns about the "list" is that it is getting out of control and that many names of people who have only had their "15 minutes of fame" or simply are non-notables are being added. I propose that we set up guidelines as to who should be admitted with a clear definition as to the terms "notable" and "fame". I am calling upon the parties interested to express their opinion and to help develope these guidelines. I believe that after we take a vote and reach a censensus, said guidelines should be followed and posted either on the article or the articles talk page. We need your help. Tony the Marine 19:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

  • One option might be to call it a list of "notable" Puerto Ricans, and remove people who would probably not survive AFD if they had an article. Since it's just a list you could probably interpret it a little but liberally. How does that sound? Guettarda 19:56, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Ouch, that's a hard one. A good rule of thumb would be to allow only people whose contributions to Puerto Rican culture, economy, etc. be tangible in history, be it Puerto Rican or somewhere else's. Merely being an actor, for example, won't cut it (that would include Jose Ferrer and Gina Lynn in the same league). That rule alone would leave out many currently famous people. As far as currently famous people, we could allow those whose contribution make a social impact that is lasting (but how to define that?) Demf 20:04, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

You're right, it is a hard one. Let's take for example Ricky Martin, I believe (and I may be wrong) that his contributions to Puerto Rican "pop" culture may well be remembered 15 years from now but, on the other hand how long will people remember, lets say Vico C? Tony the Marine 20:28, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Social, historical, cultural, political, economic impacts should all be factors for additon on the list. The list should not exclude Vico C, but a teacher who has one won award should not be on the list. Although I dont agree with Taina's contributions, excluding her would be "un-Puerto Rican" because she symbolizes the Latin American vedette, a figurenot too well known in the Anglo world. The most important thing is has the individual made an impact to the overall growth of Puerto Ricans. While Jose Padilla is a Puerto Rican, he should be put in a special category like "newsworthy" and not bunch in with talented Puerto Ricans such as Anthony Romero or Miguel Arteta. --XLR8TION 20:47, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I think those P.Ricans that have passed the test of time should be on the list,those who have won international awards or have had a cultural impact beyond their heyday. I just added today Rene Marques in the Latin America article, to my surprise there was no puerto rican in that list (Latin American authors-literature). We need to select a few but essential Puerto Ricans. We need to 'cut the fat' and say goodbye to the 'here today-gone tommorow' TV personalities and other 'artistas' and personalities who can easily be front page in a magazine this week or newspaper in PR but have a lot of road to run ahead of them. For example Taina vs Iris Chacon, this is an easy one. Iris Chacon not only was an international vedette but had a social impact beyond her dances in the culture of PR (her battle with the catholic church, censorship of her tv show, feminist issues,etc..), Taina is just a tv model that should not be in the list.--vertical 07:04, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Yeah, Vertical, but this kinda discriminates against people with relevancy nowadays, simply because their impact on society hasn't been well assessed. Without Vico C, for example, there would not be a Daddy Yankee, that alone deserves the price of admission. If that should be the approach, we'd better strive to fill those articles up with as much relevant contributions from the featured personality in his or her article as possible, before leaving in a gazillion stubs. That's hard to do. I'm truly surprised, for example, that the article on Luis Rafael Sanchez is as terse as it is. La Burbu, OTOH, gets an article. However, chances are that there are more potential authors here that could fill up an article on La Burbu than on Sánchez. I've initiated stubs on a few personalities, but strictly because editing an existing article demanded it (just to add sufficient context). I suggest that some deadline be set as to fill stubs of the more relevant ones (maybe 90 days), and AfD the rest. Demf 15:38, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] just an idea

How about if we kept the Puerto Ricans who were either the "first" in somethng, who were awarded high honors such as the Medal of Honor, Medal of Freedom, Oscars, Grammys, etc., those who have had books or movies about them, who were pioneers let's say in Puerto Rican televison, those whose accomplishments have transended or island and those whose contributions to our society in general have made an impact on our island, in the "notable" lsit.

Then we can also have an alternate list like, for example "List of Puerto Rican Entertainers" or "List of Puerto Rican Athletes" where we can include our icons and with those who are currently famous but, whose contributions are to early to judge.

This is just an idea and I would like to hear some imput. Tony the Marine 02:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

That is a good idea. PR has a big list of entertainers and the list can be endless, we need to find a method, a way to select those essential puerto ricans. since we are in an international encyclopedia (if we where in a pr encyclopedia then things would be very different) we need to do a selection. on a personal note many of my favorites will not be in that list.--vertical 17:03, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea - there are enough people to break the list down into sublists. I would advise checking to see if there is a "Lists of People" WikiProject or something in the MoS which deals with this - see if there are existing guidelines on how to break up lists like this. Guettarda 18:32, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I dunno... how should we group those? By media outlet? (Jacobo Morales alone would throw that one outta wack) I say lump the "important" ones by each medium, then lump the rest as "Miscellaneous" or some similar arrangement Demf 18:35, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Tony, I think that way this should be done is to sort out entertainers who have earned international recognition from those who are much more island or U.S.-based. Artists like Raul Julia, Jose Ferrer, Rita Moreno are known all over the world, whereas, Jose Agrelot, El Gangster (aka Antonio Sanchez), and Taina are more known on the island. I think they are all worthy of being added but they should be sorted out by their level of fame and notoriety.--XLR8TION 17:32, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the point here is to keep the list of PRicans for the highly notable people, and spin off others into specific lists (much like the current list is broken down into sub-categories). Of course, if you do that some people will end up on multiple lists. Guettarda 21:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Guettarda knows what I mean and what I'm trying to get at. The actual "list" can be kept as "List of Puerto Ricans" and we can establish a "List" of highly notable Puerto Ricans, with its sub-categories" who meet the some of the above mentioned criteria. This list can be monitored by a committee composed of those of us who have been interested enough to participate in this dialogue. Tony the Marine 01:18, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


I completely agree with XLR8TION's and Tony the Marine's last posts. Let's chop it up into sections and start identifying highly notable boricuas from those "just-locally" famous. The list(s) should also include a very brief description of each person's accomplishment in order to evidence his/her merit. - Mtmelendez 12:59, 3 July 2006 (UTC)



[edit] Draft of a Proposal

This is only a "draft" of a proposal. Feel free to improve it.

First, let's eliminate the word "notable" from the original list. This can be a "List of famous Puerto Ricans" or as it is already known, a "List of Puerto Ricans" which can include even those PR's whose fame is short lived.

Second, we establish a "List of "notable" Puerto Ricans", which will include only the names of those who are highly notable and meet an established criteria. This list will also have sub-categories (same as the original list) therefore the names will not be lumped together. The names in list should also mention their main accomplishment.

ex: instead of "Roberto Cofresi - pirate"; "Roberto Cofresi - a pirate who became part of Puerto Rico's legend and lore."

Third, we create a committee of volunteers, of which I hope you will be a member. The object of the commitee is to monitor the list by making sure that the names added meet the criteria. The committe members should add the new list in their "watchlist". Any disagreements between the members should be discussed in the new list's talk page where a call for consensus may be carried out if needed.

Example of introduction:

[edit] List of Notable Puerto Ricans

In this list are highly notable people who were either born in Puerto Rico, are descendents of Puerto Ricans or have chosen Puerto Rico as their homeland. Their contributions to the social and cultural structures of society in some cases are not limited only to Puerto Rico. Those listed have never denied being Puerto Rican and have met one or more of the requirements set by the following criteria.

  • 1. "First" or Greatest, the person was either the first Puerto Rican in a historical event or to accomplish a feat.

ex: Angelita Lind - Considered the "Grestest" track star in Puerto Rico.

ex: First Puerto Rican Congressman or First Puerto Rican woman to die in a war.

  • 2. "Father or Mother of ....", the person is recognized as being the founder of a movement or an idea.

ex: The Father of Black History or The Mother of Women's sports in Puerto Rico.

  • 3. Recognitions, the person has received a public or private recognition for his contributions.

ex: A government tribute, mention in a book of records, naming of a public structure, beatification, member of a Hall of Fame.

  • 4. Awards, the person is nominated or is the recipiant of an important award.

ex: The Medal of Honor, Presidential Medal of Freedom, Oscars, Grammy's, Tony's, Emmy's, Olympic or other sports medals of importance, Nobel Prize or a high recognition from another country.

  • 5. Historical Impact, the person's contribution has had a time lasting historical impact internationally or nationally.

ex: Eugenio Maria de Hostos - international impact; Mariana Brachetti - national impact.

  • 6. International Cultural Impact, the person's contributions may have had an impact on the World's culture.

ex: Angel Ramos founded "Telemundo"; Ramon Lopez Irizarry, invented Coco Lopez and gave the world the "Piña Colada".

  • 7. Legends, people whose deeds (or misdeeds) have become part of Puerto Rico's legend and lore. These are people who have books, movies, plays, etc. about them.

ex: Roberto Cofresi - pirate; Felipe Birriel- "EL Gigante de Carolina"

  • 8. Internationally renowned, the person is an internationally recognized figure or champion.

ex: Jennifer Lopez

  • 9. Pioneers or Founders, the person was either a pioneer in the developement or founder of an institution or company of great importance.

ex: Paquito Cordero - television pioneer, Joseph A. Unanue - Goya Foods


Now, remember this is only a draft. I would create a page for the "criteria" and the intro would link to it. If we agree then we can vote on the proposal. Tony the Marine 02:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I am liking it so far. With these "rules" for inclusion the list would be more manegable and would include only people of high notability. Joelito (talk) 17:29, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I like it as well. It is important not to remove many Puerto Ricans off the list, even if they are not the most positive role models (e.g. Jose Padilla). Even negativ emodels like Padilla can be use to teach future generations not to choose the path he chose to take. It is also important that besides cultural, historical that economic pioneers such as the founders of Goya Foods, Telemundo, El Nuevo Dia, etc.. be recognized too. --XLR8TION 18:48, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
  • None of the Puerto Ricans will be removed from the original list. The new list will only have those who are highly notable and meet the criteria as explained above. Tony the Marine 19:54, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Ditto on the list... Demf 13:03, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the classification list is too long and some personalities can be in 2 or 3 of them at once. Also i think we should take off any negative personality from the list who is not a political or historical person. --vertical 04:48, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Puerto Rico FAC!

Be sure to support Puerto Rico's Featured article candidacy!!! Hezzy 18:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry but this FAC is premature and will undoubtedly fail. Too many unresolved issues, some sections are too short and unreferenced while other are too long. The article is not up to featured quality yet. Joelito (talk) 18:54, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
True that, double true...--Cerejota 19:06, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Joelito, but we're getting closer. Thanks for the support, Hezzy - Mtmelendez 20:40, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Verification help: Satanic Smurfs

Hi - I was wondering of anyone from Puerto Rico can help verify this from the article Smurfs

During 1983, rumors of the Smurfs' satanic activities spread across Puerto Rico.[citation needed] Those who believed the theory claimed seeing Smurfs below plants in their houses, next to their beds, dressed as the devil, etc. The rumors spread like through Latin America, where people went so far as to claim that small, demon-like Smurfs propagated through their recorded albums and attacked those who would play their music. This was very much in tune with the prevalent belief of the 1980s of satanic propagation through recorded music, as many rock bands made open references to satanism in their work.

Thanks for any help, if you remember it, or know where to find a possible source. -- Stbalbach 14:37, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I remember a SINGLE article (published in El Vocero, no less...) that said something to this effect. Definitely an urban legend. Wouldn't quote it if I were you... Demf 17:03, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Geography/Demographics

I was wondering whether there should be Census 2000 geography/demographics info for each municipality, as in all the U.S. states? --Schzmo 14:19, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes there should be but not a bot-generated demographics section. It should be added to the infobox (if one exists for the article) or it should be added as prose to a demographics section. Joelito (talk) 14:57, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Puerto Rico's Economy

The article should point out how the United States' investment was not only little, but barely worthy of note. An example would be the U.S. Caribbean involvement in the Sugar industry and was a major contributor on disabling one of Puerto Rico's top economic source.

The article should also point out how Puerto Ricans only receive 1/4 of their Social Security (ex. SSI takes 100k, but a Puerto Rican will only receive 25k for his/her lifetime), how the ports are over-taxed by the federal government and other economic drawbacks that the U.S.A. exercises against the island, which does severely damage the island's economy, for undisclosed reasons. Example of the cause and effect of U.S. involvement: the elderly population is becoming unproportionately larger than the younger population. The cause is due to the younger population seeking jobs outside the island, because the employment in the island is almost hereditary and nonexistent.

The U.S. does not collect Federal Income tax (unless above certain guidelines, but SSI and medicare is deducted) because over 50 percent of the population would be entitled for a full refund, and further display of cruel and improper taxation would trigger an U.N involvement. Also, an increase in the bureaucracy for the sole purpose of collecting federal employment tax would be a strain on the delicate U.S budget; thus collecting is unrealistic. Personally, it would ultimately prove that Puerto Rico is part of the American Empire as a colony instead of a country or Free Associate State (legal term for we own you, but will not do anything for you), which would violate U.N resolution for de-colonization. These and other issues should be explored in this article, which I'll happily post when my anger subsides.

Alexzandro Rivera

Inserting everything you have said would make the article heavily biased plus many of your remarks are your own ideas and conclusions. Furthermore, the U.S. invested heavily in Puerto Rico's infrastructure during the first half of the 20th century and continues to inject large quantities of money into Puerto Rico via grants, aid, etc. Joelito (talk) 16:43, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


Reserving this spot for a rebuttal against Joelr31.

Rebuttal

Actually, it isn't bias because it's what lurks in the minds of Puerto Ricans. Many Nuyoricans don't understand about the island and laws which govern it. They do need conclusive facts, and most of my "ideas and conclusions" is the speculation behind truth. The purpose of my writing was to draw attention to the political and economical perdicament the island is suffering and what people believe. The topic (Puerto Rico) should be more informative and beneficial for Puerto Ricans than a 3rd party. They need truth, but wiki hasn't provide much of it besides what is superficial and obvious. Important laws regarding Social security, 936, naturalization and other laws that directly affects the island and how it or isn't good should be input and elaborate. So, yea, some parts of my essay were meant to be "bias", but it's to draw attention to a situation that can be easily swept under the carpet.

One more thing, the U.S.A did not "invested heavily" in the island's infrastructure. To be exact, much of it were loans, few were specific grants, and the very few is the grants which is provide to all States to support Federal regulations (ex. highways). As an American, you and everyone should know the U.S.A never gives anything free; not even freedom. However, the U.S.A gives money to the annual budget for ALL U.S colonies in a percentage, which is about to go bye-bye too. Some parts of wiki isn't accurate. I'm currently writing a list of them and sources for the fixes (mostly laws). This project in itself will take 1-4 months depending on my work schedule and free time. ^^

Oh yea, people I believe should be added is Rosie Perez (Tony winner)and Roberto Clemente. I haven't read the current wiki about PR, but I will and hopefully they match my notes.

I hope you only insert verifiable facts and that you remember to leave your opinions at the door when editing this encyclopedia. Joelito (talk) 16:09, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


---To Schzmo I didn't see any other entry by you besides the question regarding census of municipals in Puerto Rico (which is still there). So I had no intention of deleting anything from anyone. And the answer to that question is yes. They do census on population per municipal, however you have to unbury it from the U.S Census or google it. I've used it before for my research paper about Puerto Rico's myths and truths. I would've PM you this message; but you don't have a valid email or do not wish to display one.

I'm still reading how to use this very awkward forum type website Wiki provides.

Alexzandro Rivera

[edit] Military history of Puerto Rico

Military history of Puerto Rico is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy 15:16, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Invitation to new WikiProject

A new WikiProject has been started, and may be of interest to members here. It is WikiProject National Register of Historic Places. It covers all listings on the Register, in all states and territories. Should you be so inclined, please feel free to join. And spread the word to any other interested parties. -Ebyabe 02:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 18:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

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