Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Orders, Decorations, and Medals

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This article is part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Orders, Decorations, and Medals, a collaborative effort to improve, organise, and standardise Wikipedia's coverage of national honours systems. For guidelines and a participants list see the project page. You can discuss the project at its talk page

Contents 1 Project Banner/Images 2 Challenge coins 3 Living National Treasures 4 Stub proposal 5 Categorisation 6 Titles 7 Scope of medals covered 8 Stub now created 9 WikiProject categories

[edit] Project Banner/Images

I realise that the present image in the project banner is pretty stirring stuff, if you're British that is. Try as I might, I wasn't able to come up with an 'international' image which was anything other than bland and anodyne. If anyone can think of some themes which would be appropriate for a more international image then I'll be happy to replace this one.

Xdamr^talk 20:15, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Challenge coins

Since the military awards challenge coins for excellence in combat and many other reasons like that, do these medals fall under this category? --JAYMEDINC 21:24, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

It probably falls into a grey area. I can see valid reasons for describing it as a military medal, but also reasons to consider it as exonumia and thus better dealt with by the Numismatics WikiProject - your choice I suppose.

Xdamr^talk 21:44, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Living National Treasures

Congrats on making a new WikiProject! I'm afraid this isn't much my field of expertise, so I won't be able to help out too much, but I'm glad that others will be working on this important and interesting subject, and I wish you luck!

I don't know if this quite falls under the purview of your Project, but I have recently created a category for Category:Living National Treasures (Japan), and a number of other related categories. I would appreciate help populating it, if you should happen to come across such people. Please also note that those awarded this title still fall under this same category even after they are no longer alive. Thank you for your help. LordAmeth 22:15, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stub proposal

Please join in the discussion on Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/2006/December to get a proper stub for this WikiProject. --JAYMEDINC 22:22, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I'll just echo this, the sooner this stub is approved, the sooner we can get somewhere with the articles themselves.

Xdamr^talk 18:10, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Categorisation

Now that the project is established, it's time to get to work!

One of the major headaches with this topic is in the article categorisation. Our top level category is Category:Orders and decorations. Now the question arises, what do we want in this category? I propose that we include state/national orders, military/civil decorations, and commemorative/service medals issued by the state, along with articles connected to these medals and their award. Olympic medals, Nobel prize medals, etc should be put into Category:Awards.

Within Category:Orders and decorations, each nation should have its own sub-category. As things currently stand there is no consensus as to the name of these national categories. The two most popular are Orders and decorations of XXX and XXX honours system. In the interests of cohesion I think that we should settle on a single name. Which, if any, of these two do we go with - or can anyone suggest a new name?

Xdamr^talk 22:46, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you. Just to flip the direction I believe the category tree you can follow from Royal Norwegian Order of St Olav is a good example of how these articles should be categorised. Another point is that in Norway at least we have an official list of decorations automatically approved for wearing on military uniform. All these would fall under the Orders and decorations cataegory, but some might not fall under your examples of types of medals. There is for example an award for scholarly articles handed out by a private military association. Anyway I suppose most countries will have such a list and it will be a good basis for us. I would suggest Orders and decorations of XXX to be my preferred choise for country categories. Inge 13:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Here's one I managed to come up with, XXX Honours system or XXX National Honours system. On the whole I prefer 'Orders and decorations of XXX' but I don't want the category to be mistaken for one solely concerned with Orders and Decorations as objects, rather that as part of an honours system. Perhaps, linking in with the project name, Orders, Decorations, and Medals of XXX is the most comprehensive? This would also allow us to encompass unofficial, private awards if we ever decided that this was useful. Once we agree, we can draft some sort of guideline document and send the contents of Category:Orders and decorations off to WP:CFD for renaming.

Getting into the structure of the national sub-categories, Category:Orders and decorations of New Zealand I think illustrates a pretty decent structure (at least insofar as medals/decorations go - I'm still not certain as to the way we should categorise state orders/orders of knighthood).

Xdamr^talk 18:08, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Titles

Do they included in here, like Hero of the Soviet Union and stuff like that? User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 01:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is of the nature of a national order or distinction so I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be included.

Xdamr^talk 01:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Just making sure. :) User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 02:18, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scope of medals covered

I think the Project Page needs to have a clear distinction between what kinds of medals are covered by this WikiProject and which are not. Although the word "medals" is often used as synonymous with "orders and decorations", "medals" is quite a broad term and covers much more than just O&D. The feel I get from the Project Page and the preceding posts is that the only medals covered here beyond O&D are those which are formal military and civil government awards for distinguished service. Is this correct? If so, then the project might really be best named "WikiProject Orders & Decorations" since it makes such a limited coverage of medals, per se. In that way, there will be less confusion if there is ever a WikiProject that covers medals more broadly. Askari Mark (Talk) 03:35, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Not quite. Take Campaign medals for instance; they are not awarded for bravery or distinguished service, merely for having been within the designated battle zone (which may or may not have even placed them in harm's way). This project covers these medals just as much as the Medal of Honor or similar. Likewise commemorative medals such as the Queen Elizabeth II Golden Jubilee Medal - so long as it eminates from the state, we cover it. Having said that, on a case by case basis, we might find other 'unofficial' medals which we might consider come within our orbit - early days yet though.

If you think that the wording of the Scope section needs tightening up though, I'll take a look at it.

Xdamr^talk 03:47, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Lets have a broad definition for now. Our scope shouldn't be so limited towards military or state, that might push away participants from parts of the world where the medals system could be different or people who are interested in medals but less interested in military stuff. Later on we can narrow the scope if we find it prudent, but for now lets focus on recruitment.Inge 13:19, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Im agreeing on Inge on this one; let's include what we can now and if we want to specialize later, we could. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 02:32, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good, lets go with that approach.

Xdamr^talk 03:40, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

The main reason I bring it up is because the scope is not covering all types of medals, so if later on there is a decision to form a project focusing on medals as a whole, this project's title not only produces confusion, but the later any change is made, the more "go-back-and-fix" work is required. Of course, if you want to expand the scope of this project, the issue becomes moot. Askari Mark (Talk) 18:29, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stub now created

{{orders-medals-stub}}, along with Category:Order, decoration, and medal stubs have now been created. This stub can now be used to tag all articles within the scope of the project. Once tagged, they will be listed in the category. Anyone who has a rainy afternoon on their hands can dive in, pick an article, and get it up to FA standard! Well, perhaps not quite up to FA, but at least get it to show the minimum level of information in a standardised way.

Have fun, Xdamr^talk 16:24, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject categories

The WikiProject's category is Category:Wikiproject Orders, Decorations, and Medals articles, all project pages, templates, project images, etc go here. Another category of interest is Category:Wikiproject Orders, Decorations, and Medals articles, this contains a list of all articles which have been tagged with the project banner, {{WPODMBanner}}.

Xdamr^talk 17:28, 13 December 2006 (UTC)