Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mexican-Americans

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WikiProject Mexican-Americans Wikipedia:WikiProject Mexican-Americans falls under the scope of WikiProject Mexican-Americans, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Mexican-Americans on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to Mexican-Americans as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Mexican-Americans. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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Contents

[edit] Is it time to make this a Wikiproject?

Moved from my talk page Maybe you, me, Tony the Marine and should think about making a Mexican American/ChicanoWikipedia:WikiProject? We have a template started, we have a series of articles and several of us are interested. Is this the next step? Please reply here, if you don't mind and we can point this discussion out to the others. Joaquin Murietta 03:59, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Totally. Tony the Marine recommends I get in contact with Vizcarra, and there are a few others who consistently work on Mexican and Chicano topics we should invite. One concern: if we all have similar points of view, there may be danger of an underlying POV in the series. It's just that some Chicano issues are touchy (the border, illegal immigration, police brutality, gangs, etc.) and we should try to be careful to adhere to NPOV. Maybe we should invite some editors that can provide other perspectives, like contributors to the Minuteman Project article for example? I don't know if it's really that good of an idea, but I thought I'd run it by whoever is interested. But I'm definitely interested in a project. The template provides some organization, and I've got my list going, but it would do us some good to discuss some of the issues regarding writing on these topics.--Rockero 04:15, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
de acuerdo. Esp. the NPOV. We want to produce solid, well-written, encyclopedic articles. I posted on Tony's page and a few others just now. All these articles have gotten better due to the collaboration, and the DYK articles get more attention and improve. Joaquin Murietta 04:17, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Tony the Marine say yes -- this is from my talk page Joaquin Murietta 04:46, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Sure, count me in. I'm willing to help in whatever I can. I won't worry to much about NPOV's because those participating must do so under Wiki's NPOV's guide lines. Get in touch with my son, User:AntonioMartin, he's written many articles about Mexicans and as I, a firm believer in the Latino unity. Gracias Tony the Marine 04:43, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

This just in: I'm in. -Bfraga

Check this out: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups.--Rockero 09:15, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Orale, amigo, count me in!- "Antonio Sonora-Santurce Martin"

Moved from User_talk:Rockero/Archive01#Chicanismo

Thanks for contacting me regarding putting together some Chicano related articles. Where can we start? I can gather info regarding Arte. Peace! Pozole 23:33, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Naming the Project

Yeah. Next step: "Create the main project page at Wikipedia:WikiProject projectname. (See Starting a new page)" What do we call it? Mexican American/Chicano Wikiprojector La Raza Wikipedia Project Joaquin Murietta 22:40, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

So far there are five of us for sure, the minimum number of editors Wikipedia recommends for a Wikiproject. So yes, we should proceed on to the next phase. I think Mexican-American/Chicano Wikiproject is better. La Raza is too broad. A lot of Latin American and Mexican topics need work, but there is already a Wikiproject Mexico. This project should focus on Hispanics, especially Mexican Americans, in the United States. I've got a list of issues that need discussing for when the page is made. Would you care to do the honors?--Rockero 22:50, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I like "La Raza Wikipedia Project", it seems the most practical choice. You may want to get in touch with User:AlexCovarrubias and User:Hajor, especially Hajor. He's a good friend and one the best contributors in Mexican related articles. Tony the Marine 02:40, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

  • I started both, but the Mexican-American redirects to the La Raza. We can switch. These are in the basic stages. Please let me know what you think. See WikiProject La Raza and Wikipedia:WikiProject La RazaJoaquin Murietta 05:31, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
OK. I believe I laid out my reasons for prefering Chicano/Mexican American. Do we wish to broaden to scope of the project? If so, it's OK because I'd still love to participate, but the ethnicity problem comes into play. "La Raza" generally refers to the Spanish and Portuguese-speaking mestizo people of Latin America (and the U.S.). There are many ethnic groups, such as indigenous peoples and people of African descent that may or not fall under this category. If we follow the Wikiproject Ethnic Groups, the title won't do at all as it is intended for individual ethnic groups. Maybe we need a broad super-category, called La Raza, under which we can place nationalities and ethnicities, and the Chicano people, who are a distinct "nation", could have a subcategory under this heading? I left my list at work so I'll fill in the Project page with my thoughts and concerns tomorrow.--Rockero 05:59, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
While I recognize the political implications of either title, I will go along with whatever you guys decide. The one I started can be changed or copied to the other. But I think our first step is to make that decision. Joaquin Muriette Sorry, I lost the timestamp in the transfer.
I also prefer Chicano/Mexican American. Raza is too complicated in terms of its implications vs. its ambiguities. Raza, at least to me, is not an ethnic group, as there is too much cultural variation most easily exemplified by Raza across national boundaries. Can one really say we are going to cover the experience of Raza in Perú or even El Salvador? Then again, the term is used nearly synonymously with the mestizaje mexicana here in the United States. To me, Chicano/Mexican American has both a historical context in US that is better articulated than that of Raza and keeps the focus on the U.S. experience of nuestra gente. -Bfraga
Also, I hate to say it, but "La Raza" sounds like it means "the race" in Spanish, but I don't know what it really means. I'm sure I could learn, but for the uninitiated :) Chicano/Mexican-American is a lot clearer (even Chicano may confuse some people). There's actually probably a whole article to be written about the terminology and the nuances therein. ANYhoo, what I came here to ask is...what do you think this category should be called: Category:Hispanic American history. It's a subcategory of Category:U.S. history by ethnic group. The other subcategories in there are: African-American history, Chinese American history, Filipino American history, Indian American history, Japanese American history, Jewish American history and Native American history. I wasn't sure what was the best term... Thank you for any guidance you can offer. jengod 19:03, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
I am against merging this with the Hispanic American category. La Raza, Aztlan, these are good titles. Chicano/Mexican American is a good title. Both reference Chicanos/as. The Hispanic American does not limit itself to Chicanos/as. It applies to all Latinos. Actually, Latino would be preferable to Hispanic American. We need to keep discussing this, reach consensus. but I am VERy opposed to Hispanic American because our project is about Chicanismo. Joaquin Murietta 01:31, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
I listed a few categories on the project page as "related". I didn't intend to propose mergers. I thought it was going to be a Mex-Am/Chicano/a project too, but it seemed like Tony the Marine wanted something broader. And so far no one else has signed up on the page--if it comes down to it we may be better off with just the two of us collaborating, with occasional consultations from others who have expressed interest. And after looking at the ethnicities wikiproject, it doesn't look like what we're going for. I'd really like to get going on this but there are many issues that need discussion first. Maybe people have already begun their holiday breaks and won't be editing until afterwards?--Rockero 17:56, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
I am with you, Rockero. Let's keep working on the list of articles on your talk page, and this Wikiproject will evolve. Let's wait a few weeks and let it evolve. Joaquin Murietta 22:06, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

End moved section

[edit] Onward

  • Are we all cool with the name of this project? If so, ONWARD! Joaquin Murietta 21:13, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm actually partial to changing thename to Chicano/Mexican-American --Bfraga 02:32, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
I think so too. It's true that we use the term "Raza" in the United States to refer to ourselves as Chicanos or Mexican Americans, but in the rest of the world (English and Spanish-speaking), Raza means Latinoamerica. Mexican-American/Chicano is better.--Rockero 03:40, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Do we just want to do it? Chicano/Mexican-American instead of La Raza? --Bfraga 23:07, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Maybe to match the Template? --Bfraga 20:59, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm going to change the name in 2 days unless someone has objections. It seems that we're all in agreement on this, right? The new name I propose is Chicanos/Mexican-Americans. --Bfraga 21:36, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I think Mexican-American/Chicano is better. The problems with the Chicano page show that there is a great deal of ambiguity and confusion regarding the term, and I think more people (worldwide) will be more familiar with the term Mexican American (and therefore put it into search engines).--Rockero 02:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
sounds good --Bfraga 04:01, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
We're both in favor, Joaquin says he doesn't care, Pozole hasn't said anything, and Antonio is somewhat deferring to our expertise on the issue, so I see no need to wait.--Rockero 04:10, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Mexican-Americans/Chicanos or Mexican-American/Chicano? --Bfraga 05:37, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
There doesn't appear to be any other WikiProjects on specific ethnic or minority groups yet, otherwise I would have just recommended following precedent. As a result, I'd have to say go plural. It just seems clearer and to make more sense.--Rockero 06:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Moved. I renamed some other things related to the project (such as the Stub Template), but categories need to me merged too. --Bfraga 18:35, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The name ... again

Because of the slash in the name of the project, it makes it difficult to use a tool like the assement. :-( can we change the hypen in the name? User:Evrik

  • Better yet, why don't we broaden it to something like Wikipedia:WikiProject Latino? --evrik 18:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I woudn't be opposed to changing the hyphen/slash somehow, but would be resistant to broadening the project. Although I would join a WikiProject Latino, I think of the order like a Venn diagram with Latino being the bigger circle. There is enough on Mexican-Americans/Chicano subject matter to merit a unique project within it. Murcielago 21:40, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
  • There definitely ought to be a WikiProject Latino, of which WP:CH could be a sub-project. However, at the moment I have absolutely no time to dedicate to it. The reason for including the "/Chicanos" is because there are Chicanos who are not Mexican American, and there are "Chicano issues" (such as border studies, etc.) that go beyond the scope of the label "Mexican American". But if it's causing that many problems, I suppose we can change it....--Rockero 01:14, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I'ts the use of the slash versus say the word ... "and" --evrik 14:12, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I am with WikiProject Latino. But the question is do we want to cover ALL American-Latinos, Brazilian, Haitians and Spaniards, or just Mexican Americans?. "Antonio Goes to Porn industry capital Martin" 2:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Definitely broader than just Mexican Americans. And inclusive. --Murcielago 03:40, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Even though I agree that a WikiProject Latino would put an end to some controversy between the Mexican-American and Chicano issue, it may bring some new controversy as to who is "Latino" as Antonio mentioned above. What i suggest is, that if there is going to be a change of name to, lets say "Latino", first define what or who are the Latinos for which the project is intended. Tony the Marine 02:01, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Wouldn't sub-projects (per Rockero's suggestion) take care of that? I'm still figuring this wiki-thing out, but that seems reasonable. --Murcielago 03:42, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
    • I hate the argument over the definiton of Latino. I say we define it broadly, and then if we need to create subpages, we can do that. I think it's important to take a broad position. --evrik 14:12, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I think that the current name of this Wikiproject can be confusing because the "/" generally means subfolder. And thus, it seems as if there is another group called - Wikiproject Mexican-Americans. But its totally up to you guys to decide on that matter. With regard to changing name. I support keeping this particular Wikiproject, but making it a subproject under Wikipedia:WikiProject Latino or Wikipedia:WikiProject Latinos. That way, other Latino subgroups, such as Puerto-Ricans, etc can create their own wikiprojects if the need arises. Also, the broader WikiProject Latino/s would encourage more involvement from other Latinos who aren't Mexican-American. --JuanMuslim 1m 02:48, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
    • I just created the Wikipedia:WikiProject Latinos. It will definitely need lots of work but together I think we can make a difference.--JuanMuslim 1m 02:57, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
      • Let's see what we can do, no? --Murcielago 03:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
        • Sounds good to me, as long as some sort of subproject on Mexican-Americans/Chicanos is maintained. What I don't want to see is a discussion in a month with people saying "why do we need a Chicano project, we have a Latino project, and they're the same thing," simply because some people think "Mexican" or "Chicano" when they hear "Latino", especially in predominantly Mexican-American areas. --Bfraga 05:05, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
          • The project has been renamed and the page moved. The only thing we may want to do is make some sort of category tree.--Rockero 06:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

--Migdiachinea 16:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC) CAP. I don't know how to enter this discussion and/or if I'm doing this properly. I'm Cuban-American. My background is mixed with Italian and Spanish, some French, too, my mom has just told me. There are all these different surnames (apellidos) in my family, Chinea. Suarez de Lillo, Maimo, Gomez, Rosell (had been shortened to Ros or Ross by some relatives), Figueroa, Dossina. I need to make a history of this because she's worried that we're losing our identity. The CAP next to my name below refers to my being called, on occasion, a Cuban-American Princess -- which I also use as a joke. It's just the way I look. Light-haired, thin and standoffish. But I'm very hard-working and have had a lot of tumbles in my life. My father was a Cuban political prisoner who in the end became very quiet and methodical. He passed away not too long ago and I dream about him a lot. Our politix are conservative like those of most Cuban-Americans or Cuban exiles. I often do not understand the Latino moniker (although I've been forced by circumstances to use these designations). Lately I've preferred to go back to the term my father used for us, namely, "Latins." I often feel that Hispanic doesn't really describe me, and Latino even less -- it's like addding an innapropriate and ungrammatical "o" or "a" -- e.g., I hate hearing words like Truck-a or Lunch-e, and use camion and almuerzo. Well, that's it. I'm a writer with a sense of social justice and a hot-tempered big mouth to go with it. I'm not sure if I'm doing this right and don't understand all the Wikipedia requirements. I tend to be a rebel when it comes to rules.

[edit] Filling in the Project page

Should I just fill it in (Goals, Tasks, etc.) or discuss additions here first?--Rockero 17:57, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] To Do

  • First we need to define the scope of the project. Are we concentrating on Mexican American topics? Or are we including Mexico as well? How about American and Mexican Indians? And what about the rest of Latin America? Is it going to be ethnically-based? Or culturally- or historically-based? Depending on what we decide, we should name the project accordingly, and then we can start filling in some of the tasks, etc.--Rockero 18:12, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
I feel we need to concentrate on Chicano/Mexican-American topics, but I've already made that somewhat clear. This includes topics of Native Mexican culture, especially as manifested through Chicanismo (an example outside of Chicanismo would probably be curanderismo, which has heavy historical ties to Mexicans living in the U.S.). I feel it is valid to state that Mexican-American is an ethnicity distinct from Mexican and American cultures. I feel it can be both culturally and historically based, as history is a component of culture. What do you think? --Bfraga 07:16, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
OK it looks like you're with Joaquin and myself. I agree with both of your points. For one, lo chicano tends to emphasize the aspects of Mexican culture that are the most rasquachi, "folk", "authentic", and indigenous. I'd add folklorico and the influence of "los tres grandes" on the aesthetic of the Chicano art movement to that list. Secondly, Mexican American is a distinct minority in the U.S. with its own history, culture, art, literature, scholarship, and cosmology. Good to see we see eye to eye on this.--Rockero 08:04, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Rockero, may be drag your list over here? Por favor? Joaquin Murietta 21:13, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
It should go under "Tasks", I believe. Only the Mexican American section, please.--Rockero 01:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Categories: La Raza & Mexican Americans

Can we better define the separate meanings of these two categories? They seem to be treated now as synonyms, with both applied to many articles. Category:La Raza is a subcategory of category:Mexican Americans then articles should not be in both categories. My initial impression is that category:Mexican Americans should be for Mexican American people and groups or people, and category:La Raza should be for concepts, dialects, institutions, etc. Relevant guidelines would be Wikipedia:categorization policy and Wikipedia:Categorization/Gender, race and sexuality. Any thoughts? -Willmcw 22:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I was meaning to ask Joaquin about that. What say, bandit? Will's got a point, but I kinda wonder why the categorization is being applied whil we're still considering renaming the project?--Rockero 02:33, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Template edits -- urgent ---- Please monitor

Some guy took it upon himself to edit our template. He said that Chicanos are not representative of Mexican Americans. I reverted the template back. Please see Template talk:Mexican-American and Template:Mexican-American Joaquin Murietta 15:01, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] It is worse than I thought

The menso went and changed a bunch of articles. For example see Chicanismo, he has a new template called Chicanos. How shall we address this? Joaquin Murietta 15:08, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I think the quickest way to fix this is to do a redirect from the Template Chicano to Template Mexican American? What do you folks think? Joaquin Murietta 15:16, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I suppose, but I'll have to defer to your expertise regarding templates. I hope this guy talks to us about this. If he can't or won't, we have no obligation to honor his edits.--Rockero 16:37, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I changed two articles: Chicano and Chicanismo. And as you know I split the template and cleaned up the Mexican-American template. --Deepstratagem 07:25, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I think the issue stems from the identity of the person making the changes. As he does not identify as Chicano, but as Mexican-American, the template in his mind implies they are the same thing. When I renamed the template and reorganized it, my goal was to make one template and one set of topics related to Mexican-Americans, who at one point called themselves Chicanos, and continue to carry that identity. Discussion about the terms is good, but you cannot have Chicano without Mexican-American, and you cannot have Mexican-American without the legacy of the Chicano Movement today.
I agree with the comment above. That is how I feel. Furthermore, I would prefer it was clear to others that the connection between Chicano and Mexican American is due to legal history and not culture. --Deepstratagem 07:25, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
That's quite a different view from the majority of scholars dealing with Mexican American and Chicano issues. --Bfraga 08:14, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I propose renaming the template Chicano/Mexican-American and going from there, changing the articles back. Frankly, seeing the discussion on the template talk page, I don't think seperating is the best way to get what he wants. A new system of organization, maybe, or a new article that talks about the debate would work. --Bfraga 17:35, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree. Ideally, the Chicano article should explain everything about the term, including its origin, its various definitions, why it is preferred by some and why it is disliked by some. And the name of the template should be the same as the name of the project. What do you say Joaquin?--Rockero 17:41, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I have no strong opinions either way, as long as the template is used as is, and not split up. Joaquin Murietta 19:12, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps a new article on the debate would be appropriate. I appreciate the fact that this is being discussed and apologize again for the disruption. --Deepstratagem 07:25, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Template moved. --Bfraga 19:29, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Thank you! Joaquin Murietta 19:57, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Projects

Moved from Main Project Page

  1. I propose that we write the Chicano Movement article. Presumably, it was too intimidating for anyone to undertake on their own, so now that there're a few of us, maybe we can divide up the research and writing? Any particular section anyone want to write? We should also add Chicano Civil Rights dates to the Timeline of the American Civil Rights Movement. Our goal should be to make Chicano Movement a featured article. Chicano Civil Rights Movement, Mexican American Civil Rights Movement, and El Movimiento should all redirect there. Some sources to think about: Occupied America, and 500 Años de la Historia Chicana. Anyone know any good mainstream texts?--Rockero 03:51, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
I support Rockero's idea. The only problem is, that I don't know much about the movement myself, so I wouldn't know where to start. But I could research and help once this article is begun. Antonio Orale Martin
Good sources for this: Youth, Identity, Power: The Chicano Movement, Chicano!: A History of the Mexican-American Civil Rights Movement, Brown-Eyed Children of the Sun: Lessons from the Chicano Movement 1965-1975.
I think we can really do this. Chicano! divides the movement into four parts: The Land Grant Struggle of Reies Lopez Tijerina (Already a little info from Alianza Federal de Mercedes, The Farm Workers' Struggle (a good bit from César Chávez), The Youth Movement in Denver and Los Angeles (Basically Corky and the Crusade for Justice, the Moratorium, and the Blowouts, along with the Denver youth conference), and the struggle for political power (La Raza Unida Party, José Angel Gutierrez, Southwest Voter Registration Project, Texas Mexican majorities in South Texas).
I propose using these four topics as sections, maybe adding in a fifth one specifically about college student activism, encorporating information about the formation of MEChA and the previous Mexican-American college student orgs, including info about the Santa Barbara conference. What do you all think? --Bfraga 22:24, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Isn't that a series of documentaries? I think we should rely most heavily on book sources. The breakdown isn't a bad one though. I think we can fold MEChA and the student/academic movements into the Youth Movement, but we should also have a Pre-Movement section that talks about early problems and struggles and sets the stage for the "Movimiento" section.--Rockero 01:43, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
The documentaries have a book compendium, which is what I was referring to. You're right, we should stick to books. I think the student/academic movements could also be folded into the youth ones, but then that puts Corky, MEChA, Plan de Aztlán, the Chicano Moratorium, and the Blowouts together in the same group...which is a giant section compared to the Land grant struggle (in fact, people have argued that this was the Chicano Movement. That's the only reason I suggested breaking it up. Pre-Movement section is a great idea, maybe with some stats on Chicano/Mexican populations, which I can do. --Bfraga 04:09, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Maybe we should break up the "youth movement" geographically? Since they revolved around urban centers, we could talk about major events in the epicenters in subsections after a general description of urban youth movements?--Rockero 05:47, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Could work, but basically East LA and Denver were the only ones that had major organized urban youth movements (that I know of...maybe El Paso también?) It would be tough to integrate College stuff, even in terms of East LA College, and have it transition easily. Maybe organizing in terms of within the Barrio and outside of the Barrio (campuses) for "youth movements". --Bfraga 06:16, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Part of the problem is that students were active in the farm worker movement, older generations were involved in the education movement, the land struggle was both urban and rural, etc. The reason I opined in favor of the taxonomy used in the documentary/compendium is because it is organized neither geographically nor chronologically, but is rather based on the fronts on which the struggle was being fought. If we follow this structure, we can incorporate all aspects of the movement regardless of when and where they took place, and we should be able to fit them into at least one of the headings. BTW, there was major student, land, farmworker, and cultural activity in San Diego (see Chicano Park), Sacramento (not so much land), and of course San Francisco. I think if we plan it carefully, we can make the transitions pretty fluid and at the same time provide an accurate, detailed depiction of what the Chicano Movement was/is. As far as dividing up sections, I'd like to volunteer to write the Pre-Movement section, and will get started on researching unless someone really wants that section for themselves. I think we should use these holidays to do some research and to relax, and then start writing con brío at the beginning of next year.--Rockero 20:54, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm on board. Yes, Chicano Movement needs to be tackled. Please assign an area to me if possible. I have some primary sources for this. The problem I get is that I don't wnat to unwittingly step into some kind of factionalism. I have some additional info I could add to the Brown Berets but I have info from one faction only so it probably won't be NPOV. I can commit right now to adding things to Chicano Movement and writing an article on Rudy Acuña. I have participated in a SVREP project, it might make me qualified by default to write on it, I just have to dig up some of the materials.--Pozole 01:45, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
And to anyone who might not know where to start, you can find a wealth of resources from certain members of the Chicano Studies program at California State University, Northridge. You might want to explain to them the significance of doing this article right, as it tends to become a cited source and gets quickly propagated. A lot of them will be happy to help and may even contribute themselves. You can find the faculty here: [1]the ones I think that would be most likely to help are Rudy Acuna, Roberto Sifuentes, Jorge Garcia, Raul Ruiz and I would recommend Fermín Herrera for anything regarding Pre-Colombian Mesoamerican History.--Pozole 01:57, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
That's why I propose the survey, because if anybody's in the valley or goes to CSUN, they can just ask Profesor Acuña if they can take a picture for Wikipedia (and probably wouldn't have a hard time finding Luis Rodriguez, either) -THIS CIRCUMVENTS COPYRIGHT ISSUES. A lot of these Movement-era people are still alive, scattered throughout the country, and just sitting there waiting for some young scholar to come interview them. So I was hoping we'd have people from all over to take advantage of that, and also to counter any regional bias. I know my list is pretty California-heavy. And speaking of sources, the Smithsonian has a lot of Chicano/a artists in their online collection of oral histories.[2]--Rockero 02:58, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
The Smithsonian would be public domain? Joaquin Murietta 13:12, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
If we're using it as a source, it doesn't have to be PD. If we're using images, (which I'm not sure if the Smithsonian has on-line) it does. The Library of Congress has a lot of PD images, though.--Rockero 16:31, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

These two sources come highly recommended:

  1. Sanchez, George J. Becoming Mexican American:Ethnicitty, Culture, and Identity in Chicano Los Angeles. UC Press, 1993.
  2. Ruiz Vicki L. From Out of the Shadows: Mexican Women in Twentieth-Century America. NY: Oxford University Press, 1998

And these might be good:

  1. De Anda, Roberto M. Chicanas and Chicanos in Contemporary Society. Boston: Allyn and Bacon, 1996.
  2. Del Castillo, Richard Griswold. La Familia: Chicano Families in the Urban Southwest, 1848 to the Present. Notre Dame, 1984
  3. Meier, Matt S., and Feliciano Ribera. Mexican Americans/American Mexicans: From Conquistadors to Chicanos. NY: Hill and Wang, 1993.

I haven't read them, but they may be worth checking out.--Rockero 06:27, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

2. I also propose we do the Chicano Blowouts article. Might be good practice for the Chicano Movement article? Even if it's a stub? --Bfraga 02:01, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I tend to dislike stubs because they become targets for vandalism, get marked for deletion, and present more of a challenge to later editors. But you're right, the article does need to be written, especially if it is listed on the template.

[edit] Article Lists

Where can we place additional suggested articles on the project? There are a couple that I think would warrant inclusion such as:

  • Sal Castro
  • Raul Ruiz
  • Royal Chicano Air Force
  • Pedro Gonzalez
  • Lemon Grove Incident
There is already an RCAF article, but it is stubby (unless it got deleted). I've just been adding all the red links to the Tasks list, even those from articles others have started. (Pedro Gonzalez is already on it- I think he has his middle initial on the list). If you like, we can either take my name off the top or make a separate list, but I see no reason to break it up by contributor. Maybe we should rank the list in order of priority though?--Rockero 16:11, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

== FELIZ NAVIDAD ==Joaquin Murietta 14:21, 22 December 2005 (UTC) !


== 'LIVING IN A DREAM WORLD' == Someone add more criminals, because we are LYING if there is only one mexican notorious criminal. Come on now, lets get real about this. This criminal list should number in the dozens of famous criminals, hundreds of thousands (per year) for common ones!--(the preceding unsigned comment was placed by 207.227.123.118-talk)

Thank you for your constructive criticism. We'll look into this.--Rockero 06:14, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Ditto to first person. Question is, do we really want people from the world to know our criminals as bad as our image is in front of everyonie else? 've come to question that mysel-f a lot, unless the criminal has had historic significance about changing a law, for example. Like some guy in Puerto Rico I am thinking about writing about, his death may change a law. "Antonio RexSex Martin" 2:24, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stub templates and categories up for deletion

You may vote on the Project stubs up for deletion here: [3] Joaquin Murietta 14:18, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I think I should inform you that I've relisted {{Mexican-American/Chicano Stub}}, Cat:Mexican-American/Chicano Stubs and {{La Raza-stub}} at WP:SFD. Please comment. Conscious 14:30, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cantantes

Check out Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 January 11#Mexican American singers. I wish someone would let us know when they nominate a category that obviously falls under our project like this. Lucky I found it. Please, express yourselves.--Rockero 03:04, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] hyphenation: Mexican-American vs Mexican American

I'm purporting to translate Xicano related articles to the Korean Language Wikipedia. At the very start of the translation, an admin started changing 멕시칸-아메리칸 (just a korean phonetical transliteration of "Mexican-American") to 멕시코계 미국인 ("United States Citizens of Mexican Branch")

I am of the opinion that American hyphenated identities should not be translated in the korean language as "US Citizens of X Branch". (Yes, I do have a beef with "Korean-American" being translated as "한국계 미국인", meaning "US Citizens of South Korean Branch", as it shows a terrible lack of understanding about the interrelations of race, identity politics and distinction of nation and ethnicity on behalf of peninsular koreans.. but that's for later)

Anyway, the reason the korean admin is suggesting the change to "US Citizens" is because they already have a series of "US Citizens of X Branch" for a bunch of nationalities. (Bulgarian, Russian, Japanese, and so on) And I responded that even when "Mexican American", without the hyphen, may correpond to "US Citizen..", it was not the case for "Mexican-American", which was a hyphenated identity, for godsake. Then, the admin pointed out the in the english wikipedia, from which I'm translating, Mexican-American redirects to Mexican American. Ugh.

So what does this come to? Let's either have a section under Mexican-American that explains differences between the hyphenated and non-hyphenated ones, as well as other terms that outsiders may wrongly apply over the group. It would also be great to stick with either one of the usages, hyphenated or not hyphenated. As I'm not as familiar with Mexican-American identity politics as with their latino counterpart, I'm submitting the request here.

En solidaridad, --Yonghokim 05:11, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

All right, this is a little bit tough. It looks like all the "Ethnic-American" articles are unhyphenated. This appears to be a Wikipedia convention. I think the designation of "United States Citizens of Mexican Branch" is particularly problematic, because of the sheer quantities of us who live here who are not actual citizens (undocumented immigrants, permanent residents, people on temporary visas, etc.) As you can tell from the content of just this page, the question of race/ethnicity, nationality, and identity is a contentious one even within the Mexican American community. May I suggest leaving the title of the Korean article "United States Citizens of Mexican Branch" in order to maintain consistency there, and then adding in a paragraph that explains the relationship between ethnicity and identity in the U.S., and that also explains the problems with the use of the word "citizen" and the reason the article remains titled so. As far as hyphenation consistency throughout the wikipedia, it appears that it is going to be problematic. It seems to me that, when used as an adjective, grammatically, it should be hyphenated. Likewise, when used as a noun, the hyphen isn't grammatically necessary, but may be politically so. I don't think there's an easy answer to this one. Finally I want to thank you for translating these articles. It would probably take me a long time to learn Korean, so if you didn't do it I don't know who would. Just out of curiosity, do you know if they have access to Wiki in North Korea?--Rockero 17:50, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Two Infobox Templates

We now have horizontal and vertical infoboxes Some articles look better with one or the other. Not both! Joaquin Murietta 12:18, 18 March 2006 (UTC)



I like the idea of having two templates. It allows some flexibility. If you guys would take a look at my new horizontal one here to seee if you approve--I was a little hasty last time in switching and I apologize.--Rockero 00:00, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merger Hispanic Hispano and Latino

PLease see the discussions and various merger tags. Do you feel that Latino should be mergerd with Hispanic? Or that Hispanic should be merged with Hispano?Joaquin Murietta 12:26, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't look like they're all tagged. Hispanic and Latino should definitely not be merged, but I see no reason Hispano and Hispanic should not be, as long as the article is specific about different regional and temporal uses.--Rockero

[edit] Ratings

What do you guys think about implementing a rating system like they're using at Wikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America?

complicated Joaquin Murietta 06:17, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
True, but we would be able to gauge the progress on the articles, identify stubs for expansion and identify what needs to be done. I guess if we're going to do all that work, might as well just expand them, but...--Rockero 06:39, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism of template on Latino article

Please see discussion at [4] I removed the template for now Should we have a disambiguation page? Joaquin Murietta 05:31, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


In the meantime I made a third infobox without the Aztec calendar. Please let me know what you think. Joaquin Murietta 05:51, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it was just the image they were objecting to, bandit. It's just that-- with a few exceptions, everything on the template has to do with Mexican Americans, and among the articles linked, there is a heavy emphasis on Chicano stuff. While in theory, the template should appear on every article it links to, I too wonder about its appropriateness on this article. Just because the U.S. Census calls Mexican Americans "Latinos" doesn't mean that we all identify as such, nor does it mean we should try to monopolize the term to refer only to us.--Rockero 06:23, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RfA

Editors engaged in this project may also wish to participate in Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Rockero. Cheers, -Will Beback 08:03, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Topic up for discussion

Here is something that I just noticed on the Manuel Antonio Chaves page: a new category has been created: Category:Mexican Spaniards. I don't know what to think about that category all around. I mean Chaves was a New Mexican of Spanish descent -- two centuries previous. Pretty much any native New Mexican Hispano can make that claim, but it seems to me disingenuous to call Chaves a Spaniard, since his family had been in New Mexico since 1598. A look at some of the other people under that category raises similar questions to me. Anybody have any thoughts on this? - Murcielago 18:27, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Latino template

Please help with the Latino template. --JuanMuslim 1m 18:35, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] {{Latino}}

I think the questions of colors and images are secondary at this point. Right now we should be trying to determine whether or not the template is merited. Are there enough articles to add into it to make it useful? What articles should it be placed on? What benefit will it provide to readers of the encyclopedia? What are its parameters? Will it apply to all of Latin America or just Latinos in the United States? These are the questions we should be discussing right now. And to be frank, it doesn't seem like it will do much good at this point. Once the parameters are determined, then we can get started on writing articles that pertain to Latinos as a whole. The template should be like a finishing touch to enhance to a body of articles, not an outline to determine what needs to be written.--Rockero 20:53, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Any project, such as this template, can be broken down into a number of smaller projects – the presentation and the content or substance, but yes, how it looks is less important than the content. I would love to see a template for Latino/Hispanic topics that is as eye appealing and as useful as the template for African-American topics, especially with the growing number of Latinos within the United States. The purpose of a Wikipedia template is to make navigation easier, and certainly there needs be an effective way to navigate through the complex web of Latino related articles, and I think that in time the template will achieve that goal.
The template should be about Latinos living in the United States. If you ask a Venezuelan off the street of Venezuela if he’s a Latino, he’ll say he’s Venezuelan or Latin American. The terms Hispanic and Latino aren’t used by most Latin Americans. A separate template could also be created for Latin Americans if someone desires to make one. I’d like to focus on seeing a Latino template. The Latino/Hispanic template could state “Latinos / Hispanics in the U.S” below the image that will be selected.
For our own purposes, whether the Latinos are descendents or immigrants to the U.S. is less important. There needs to be a template that represents all these people who are Latinos and Hispanics. Therefore, when discussing Latino history, the article would include the history of all Latinos including Mexican-Americans, Cuban-Americans, Puerto Rican Americans, etc. The history article might include bits and interesting facts about the various Latin American countries. We, Mexican-Americans, make up over 75% of the Latino population, and thus, the history, etc about us will dominate many Latino related articles, but that doesn’t mean that our Mexican-American history is synonymous with Latino history.
I think that the Latino template can give us a bit of a direction. Unfortunately, the template reveals the important articles that Wikipedia needs about Latinos. The Latino / Hispanic template needs to be tweaked that is for sure. There could be a link to the article about Latin America, links to articles about the major subgroups of Latinos, such as Mexican American and Cuban American and the possibilities are endless.--JuanMuslim 1m 23:18, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Orale pues, that's the reason we made the Mexican-American/Chicano templates {{Chicano2}} and {{Mexican-American}}. However, I think your idea of a navigational template for all the Latinos in the U.S. is actually probably a better idea since many of our organizations are inclusive of Latinos from all nationalities. If we make a template that is more inclusive, maybe we could make separate navigational templates for specific topics such as the Chicano Movement and Chicano Art, for example. What you are asking for, however, is a major reorganization. And here in conservative Wikipedia, you are bound to encounter opposition. So let's get it together before we start adding it to articles.
Here's my recommendation: we reorganize the Latino template to accomodate articles that already exist. One header will be "Nationalities", and underneath, Cuban American, Mexican American, etc. That's the only idea I have for now, and when I get back I'll help with getting it together. PAZ carnal, --Rockero 03:01, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure we'll get some opposition, but all we can do is explain ourselves. The best approach right now is as you stated, that is, to use what already exists. And, your help is essentual because you are more familiar with what Latino related articles already exist on Wikipedia. Then, we'd also have a better idea of what needs to be written or perhaps reorganized. For example, the article on Puerto Rico includes info about Puerto Rican Americans which would be good for an article entitled Puerto Rican Americans or Puerto Rican American. And, some links on the template could point to sections within various Latino related articles. --JuanMuslim 1m 12:58, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project etc.

Saludos y Asalamalaykim, Juan Muslim! I notice you signed on as a participant in the Mexican-American/Chicano WikiProject, and I want to extend you a warm welcome. I also notice you started {{Latino}}. What were you planning on doing with that? That is, what is your vision for it? What do you want it to accomplish? The project members and I may be able to help you with it, but I need to know in what direction you want to take it.

I also notice that you have been editing Islam-related articles. If there way you can share your knowledge about Islam in the Mexican American community, it would be greatly appreciated. Most of our religious articles have been focused on Roman Catholicism, and some diversity in the religious experiences of Mexican Americans needs to be represented. There are many articles that need to be written (see the tasks list), and a long-term project goal is to elevate Chicano Movement to featured article status. If you'd like to help with these or any other projects, please dig in. Also, if you have any questions or suggestions, please discuss them on the Project talkpage or on my talkpage.

Good to have you aboard, --Rockero 16:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I haven't been as active on Wikipedia recently. I am however floored by the fact there is no template for latino/hispanic, so I just wanted to start something and get some dialogue. The template definitely needs lots of work. But at the same time its definitely needed. The template called AfricanAmerican is excellent, and that's kinda like what I'd like to see for the Latino template. As for Latinos and Islam, that's my specialty. lol. I recently started the Latino Muslims article. You can help with that. The link to HispanicMuslims.com/articles has plenty of reference material. --JuanMuslim 1m 17:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
One issue with the template is that several articles that should exist (example: Latino history or Hispanic history )don't or are essentually part of other articles.--JuanMuslim 1m 13:43, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

A problem, Juan, is that some of the articles you recommend for creation are on such broad topics. Latino history, already exists as History of Latin America. However, it is mostly just a collection of links to more specific articles. For culture and religion, it might be possible to create an article by copying and pasting subsections from other articles, but if that information is available elsewhere, why bother? What I meant about finding out your aim was do you want the template to cover Latinos in the US? Or all the peoples of Latin America? Have you seen our Mexican-American template? What do you think of it?--Rockero 15:57, 31 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] SombreroBarnstar.png

El Sombrero Barnstar Award
Enlarge
El Sombrero Barnstar Award

I created the El Sombrero Barnstar Award to recognize any editor who has made exceptional contributions to articles about Latinos and/or Hispanics in the United States as well as articles about Latin America. Anyone is welcome to use it. --JuanMuslim 1m 04:59, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chicano Movement

OK, it is time to get serious about our intended goal of elevating Chicano Movement. It seems to me that the best way to divide up the work is to divide up the reading. I have a list of books that can serve as resources, unless you have a work you are reading/want to read as part of the collaboration. I'd like to give each participart one book to read over the summer, with the goal of having the article ready for peer review by September. Please reply here to indicate whether you have a text you would like to read or if you need a recommendation. ¡Adelante!--Rockero 09:12, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Is the entire list posted somewhere? Joaquin Murietta 22:34, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I have the "Contested Homeland -- a Chicano History of New Mexico" text, and I'd be willing to read another book if you assign me one, Rockero. - Murcielago 04:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I take it you've read it already? I've put up a (partial) list under the resources section on the project page. I don't know what kind of access you guys have to these works, so I would suggest choosing one that looks interesting or that you know little about and starting there. My sister gave me the Vicki Ruiz book, so I'll read that one.--Rockero 21:13, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nuestra Historia

Please comment on new template. {{Nuestra Historia}} Joaquin Murietta 18:42, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Who do you want this template to include? Because so far it has an Hispano priest, a Mexican Purepecha musician, a Chicano labor leader, and two lists. Are you going for leaders? Mexican-Americans, Chicanos, Mexicans, and Hispanos? What are the criteria for inclusion? I wonder about the title "People of interest to Chicanos", too. I'm interested in Ron Karenga. Should he go in there? (Playing devil's advocate) Maybe a different title would be better? And are you worried about template overkill?--Rockero 21:18, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I like the idea of it, but speaking from experience, I just put the Sisters of Loretto into a "Catholic Orders" template and the template got deleted. (correlation or causation? I don't know . . .) I think the Template title is pretty good, but I think we could limit it to lists (and include Chicano authors, for example), and I also think we could use a list of Historic Chicanos, for whom the term "Chicano" would be anachronistic (like Padre Martinez et al), but who were precursors of the Chicano spirit -- i.e. I don't think the people of Rio Arriba would have listened to Tijerina without a man like Martinez in their history. Murcielago 02:19, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey guys, necesito su ayuda

Several weeks ago I started an article about a Mexican-American heroe US Marine Sgt. Rafael Peralta(please see) in Wikipedia in espanol, some people did no like it saying is about war propaganda, and that I removed some irrelevant signs he placed before, or that this article is not different from anyone who died in combat,etc. Now the article is under voting to be erased.The guy who proposed the removing of the article is Cinabrium, who is pro arab/islamic and resents the war in Iraq, and I believe there is a anti-American feeling in most of these guys who supports Cinabrium. If you are registered in Wikipedia en espanol, you can help me making changes, adding info, photos, an infobox too, and your vote if you may. There is only 15 days left. I am still learning and need all the help you can give me. Tell some other people you know who might be willing to help. Thank you familia, un abrazo, --Cefaro 03:57, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Removed {{helpme}} request. ViridaeTalk 04:07, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
The {{helpme}} is for help with editing the english version of wikipedia, asking questions about how to edit it etc. Please do no use it to collect suport for an article on this or any other language version of wikipedia. You are quite welcome to request help in updating an article but it would be preferable to so on the wikipedia version where the article is situated. ViridaeTalk 04:10, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

I think all 40-something Hispanic Medal of Honor recipients should have a page on Wiki. Ditto wiki español. Our raza has served with pride in every military conflict America has found itself in. I've read over the comments on the Spanish wiki and Cefaro is right. The detractors' feelings on the war are clouding their reasoning on whether Peralta is encyclopaedic worthy. --Murcielago 15:46, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk Page Template

{{WikiProject Mexican-Americans}}

This article is part of WikiProject Mexican-Americans/Chicanos, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Mexican-Americans and Chicanos on Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to: arts, culture, sciences, politics or anything else related to Mexican-Americans/Chicanos. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
enjoy. --evrik 17:34, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello!

Wanted to touch base with you guys and let you know of WikiProject Biography and let us know whenever you guys are working on a collaboration, or have FACs or GA noms so we can let the Biography group as a whole know. It would be great if we had a liaison from your group that helped monitor the Biography project so we can better coordinate efforts. Good luck with your project! plange 16:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm probably the person you're looking for but at the moment I am not as active as I used to be in Wikipedia. Please let us know if there are any Biography-project-oriented issues concerning Mexican Americans, Chicanos, or Hispanics, and we will do the same for you. Thanks, --Rockero 03:48, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tagging talk pages and assessing articles

Wikipedia Assessments within AWB. Click on the image to see it in better resolution
Enlarge
Wikipedia Assessments within AWB. Click on the image to see it in better resolution

Hi. If you still have work to do tagging talk pages and assessing articles, my AWB plugin might be of interest to you.

The plugin has two main modes of operation:

  • Tagging talk pages, great for high-speed tagging
  • Assessments mode, for reviewing articles (pictured)

As of the current version, WikiProjects with simple "generic" templates are supported by the plugin without the need for any special programatic support by me. I've had a look at your project's template and you seem to qualify.

For more information see:

Hope that helps. If you have any questions or find any bugs please let me know on the plugin's talk page. --Kingboyk 14:28, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 20:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Would like to help

Count me in to help out on this project. Also I would like to become a major contributor to Rockero's article on "Chicano Art". I have already added my name to the list of participants. I am new to Wikipedia and looking forward to contributing. Chicaneo 15:12, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] May 2006 immigration strikes

I notice there is no wiki article on the strikes of last May. I have some resources on the movement's impact in LA/SoCal, if anyone would be interested in working with me on an article covering the strikes from national and/or nationalist perspectives.--Amerique dialectics 03:26, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Need Help With To Do / Tasks List (Housekeeping Issues)

The alphabetization of the "To Do / Tasks list" of the "To Be Written" section is complete. Your help is needed in providing short descriptions behind each entry. For example:


  • George Yepes - artist
  • Culture Clash - Commedy Troupe
  • Casa De La Raza - Santa Barbara cultural center


In the case of entries that are self-explanatory, such as Mexican-American Bar Association or Chicano literature, no descriptive information is necessary. Thanks, Chicaneo 00:10, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SFD discussion

I believe a couple of you have already participated in the SFD discussion regarding {{Chicano-stub}}. I have summarized the discussion and put forth a suggestion for a solution. Please voice any more opinions on SFD page, so we can come to an agreement and finish the discussion. Thanks. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 21:16, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

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