Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indonesia/Collaboration

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[edit] Template

Although it appears as if policy is kindof mixed on this issue, I was wondering If I could convince this project to refrain from putting a template on the top of the page of the current collaboration. The template (although temporay) ruins the look and profesionalism of the article and as redundent to the template already present on the talk page. Thanks for your condideration --T-rex 22:56, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

The discussion is here for all to see and commet on, but in light of no new comments from last weeks discussion on talk pages, i am behind keeping it for the following reasons:

• As you point out the template is temporary - so issue of "looks" is not really important (plus it is bright but out of the way). Looks are highly subjective, but even if it was deemed detrimentle, "ruining" the article I think most will agree is an exageration.
• Putting it on the discussion page removes it from sight from a large (most?) of its potential audience - such a loss in numbers does not justify any possible perceived negative opinions on "looks"
• The policy (and discussions you linked previously) were far from clear and unaninmous.
• Last week, I check the list of collabs (can't find the link now). They overwhelmingly had the template on the main page. (something like 80%)
• So far, you are the only one to have expressed opposition to it. :)

The template is currently on Java. --Merbabu 01:53, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually I would dispute a few of those points, as the potential audiance is not readers, but the wikiproject members, who would find out rather through the project page. From the collabs I looked at it appeared less then half (40%) used the template, and by "ruin" I only refer to the formating as the content is (obviouslly) unchanged.--T-rex 04:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The potential as opposed to likely audience is, as with all of wikipedia, ALL readers before editors. Hence the 'edit this page' and lack of sign-in required. How many of us were editors before we were readers? I know of no policy that suggest editors have any special priorities over readers (nor any that make such a distinction, at least one that is relative).

I don't know what 60% of collabs you looked at but all the geographic collabs use the template on first page, except 1 which has no template anywhere. Ditto US history, and all Religion related: From 12 pages, only 1 current collab had a template on talk page and not on article page. I didn't check the other categories listed on the collab page. maybe you can check the science collabs. --Merbabu 04:46, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm planning on bringing this up with some of the other mini-collaborations within the next week as well, lets see where it goes. I do have an opinion on this, but no hard feelings either way --T-rex 04:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The main collab page [1] (at the bottom) supports the way it is done here, although it doesn't say it musn't be done this way.

With respect, on what other articles have you opposed collab banners? It's twice in a few weeks you've opposed this one, the first occasion being at your opposition to the "Indonesian case" for a direct link to Java. Just curious. Once again, you are the only one i know of to dispute it - so far.--Merbabu 04:46, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

None others yet, next week I will have more time to do so. Given some resistance to just taking down the template I felt it best to here and to give this a more formal discussion. Also I consider the java page move thing to be a seperate, unrelated discussion --T-rex 06:25, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm - OK, I've made the point (whether valid or not), but will consider it seperate from now on. :-) --Merbabu 06:30, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I also think it looks terrible. it seems extremely nationalistic for wikipedia, with should ultimately be an international collaboration.--naught101 05:29, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments but how is it not international? Many of the frequent editors (even most?) are not Indonesian, myself included. High international collaboration! SHould I list them and their nationalities/location? It clearly states on the collab page that it is open to all. There are a number of other geographically (rather than nationalistic) collabs including USA, India and Canada. [2] --Merbabu 07:22, 12 November 2006 (UTC)