Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethiopia
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This page is to discuss General strategies, Hierarchy, tasks, and all around general issues. For more specific discussions, go to the talk pages of the specific sub-pages (i.e. /History, /Geography, /Linguistics, /Culture, /Resources, /Key articles, /Transliteration, etc.).
[edit] Jijiga
I just looked at the page for the city of Jijiga and was surprised how much the description cited by Nega Mezlekia differs from my own personal observations of the city. While he is quotes as saying "on a vast, unmitigated plain, with no greenery in sight except for the occasional cactus bush…”, I can assure anyone that the region surrounding the town is actually quite green and full of farm land. In fact when we landed our helicopters there we had to be careful of the corn fields and mud pits. It is one of several very productive agricultural regions between Dire Dawa and the Somali boarder. I know that we should not cite our ourselves when attempting to make an article accurate, but having been there I can’t help wishing to correct this one. As it is already an article with unsourced statements, would it be prudent of me to add my own observations? Does anyone have any suggestions? Quintman 02:07, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Name
Just noticed that the uncapitalization of the "P" in project actually redlinks Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethiopia, but that typing that into the search bar takes you directly here. I would just move the page, but I don't really feel like moving all of the sub-pages & talks and I'm not sure if that's really that much of a problem. — ዮም (Yom) | contribs • Talk 06:43, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Good
Good idea. Badagnani 09:08, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Image
If anyone could find a free image (e.g. a blank map w/o political borders or a full one with place names) of N. Ethiopia & Eritrea and Southern Arabia (i.e. Yemen and s. Saudi Arabia), it would be greatly appreciated. I need it to top off GDRT, which I've basically just finished adding to. Of course, if you could find a free image of an inscription as well, that'd be even better, but I'm not expecting that much. ዮም (Yom) | contribs • Talk 02:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Key articles
Take a look at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Work via Wikiprojects, & consider how our existing articles should be graded according to what is already there. (I know I've mentioned elsewhere my pick of 5 key articles, but it'd be nice to sort out 20-30 key or vital Ethiopia-related articles & grade them accordingly.) -- llywrch 03:24, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- I'll provide a list around that number (outside of the 5 higher priority key articles) tomorrow afternoon (night UTC) based partially on the existing Key Articles. — ዮም (Yom) | contribs • Talk 05:42, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Creating Ethiopian Geography articles
Just a note to everyone that I've hacked out an example of my personal campaign to create an article for every notable administrative unit & city/town in Ethiopia. I'm limited by what the material available to me, but you can review my efforts at the woredas & (indirectly) towns linked to at List of woredas in the Benishangul-Gumaz Region. Feedback welcomed. -- llywrch 01:30, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Well, my work has been proceeding slowly -- but another Wikipedian has been adding stubs for various towns, & apparently attempting to poke me into speeding up my work. (Just a warning in case you stumble across one of these other articles -- I don't know how many there are, & several lack any links.) -- llywrch 22:56, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
- Update: I posted a question on the creator's Talk page about his work, & it was deleted; I'm not sure what to make of that. Maybe someone else will have better luck getting an answer from him. -- llywrch 02:54, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
I have never entered anything into Wikipedia before. However, I was responsible for surveying Sof Omar as part of the British Expedition to Ethiopia in 1972. I have an extensive collection of photographs of the cave and notes relating to the history of its exploration as well as survey notes. The expedition explored other karst areas in Bale, Dira Dawa and Tigre. The only other cave of significance was Nur Mohammed. I can start the process of adding this to the site, but I need help in negotiating the editing process and of course time! --Dave Catlin 14:00, 22 July 2006 (UTC)Dave Catlin
- First, I have to saythat you are making a very generous offer by wanting to share your collection! Keep that in mind as I write the following:
- Take care that your text contributions are based on printed, accessible matertials. If you have published your findings, go ahead & cite them for your contributions. (Further information at WP:CITE). The reason for this peculiar requirement is that too many people either make up information out of whole cloth & try to slip it into Wikipedia, or that when pressed for their sources sometimes we find out that what "they know to be indisputable fact" is actually something a friend heard from another friend who heard it on tv or radio. And often these are the very ones who become unpleasant to the people who do know what are indisputable facts.
- Pictures, drawings, maps are not as controversial -- as long as they can be submitted under a free license (examples being the GPL or Creative Commons). Actually, a better place for submitting these materials might be commons.wikipedia.org, where all of the free image & sound files can be submitted & used by not only English-language Wikipedias, but those in other languages, such as German, French, Polish -- & Amharic.
- I did a bit of snooping, & was surprised that I could not find a Wikiproject that concentrated on geology, geomorphology -- or caves. They would be especially useful in a case like yours where you want to share a lot of descriptive information.
Like I said above, don't let my words above scare you off. I eagerly hope to see some of your contributions here on Wikipedia, & if there is anything I can help with, please let me -- or anyone else in this Wikiproject -- know. -- llywrch 00:54, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for your kind offer of help. Someone also kindly helped organise the references I added relating to the history of the exploration. I found a typo, but cannot find how to get the reference text back. Also I have other reference to add. Please explain how I can find the text for the references. Dave Catlin
Help Please: I have loaded a Sof Omar image into the system (Safari_Straight.JPG) but it comes out far too big. How can I reduce the size.--Dave Catlin 04:34, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
- Image size is something I'm always struggling with, too. The answer lies at Wikipedia:Extended image syntax -- which I keep a link to on my User page. -- llywrch 20:05, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] People of Ehiopia
We need to create an article about people of Ethiopia, just like Armenians or Georgians. I propose to the article Ethiopian People. Please make your suggestions. ThanksLdingley 20:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
- It'll be a little difficult, as there are multiple Ethnic groups (the major ones have an article). Perhaps something could be done under Demographics of Ethiopia? — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:10, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
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- Well, we could mention all the ethnic groups of Ethiopia. Take a look at Armenians, the peoples page should be design for Ethiopians similarly. It’s true that Ethiopia has many ethnic groups (so goes Russia but go to Russians) but there should be a page about people of Ethiopia or Ethiopians. Let me know. Ldingley 21:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Need help
Hi, i just started the article People of Ethiopia. I will start adding more information, mainly from books and other available sources. I think we should have separate article for People of Ethiopia and include all ethnic groups there. Please advice and make your suggestions. Thanks. Ldingley 22:11, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
- Sure. Check out Languages of Ethiopia, as there's an ethnic group for every language (though not in all cases vice versa). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 02:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- There's also a list at Southern Nations, Nationalities and Peoples' Region. Although incomplete, I have been working on it. -- llywrch 17:13, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Here's a list of almost all ethnic groups and numbers for speakers and self-identified members of the ethnic group as according to the 1994 Ethiopian census (I've made links for all so we know which ones - almost all - need articles):
Source (by Grover Hudson, a well-known linguist of Ethiopian languages)
Table 2. Mother-Tongue Speakers of Ethiopian Speech Varieties and Members of Ethnic Groups , Ordered by Number of Mother-tongue Speakers (1994 Census) C=Cushitic, N=Nilosaharan, O=Omotic, and S=Semitic
--------------------- --------------------- -------------------- Ethnolinguistic group Mothertongue speakers Ethnic group members Amara S 17,372,913 16,010,894 Oromo C 16,777,975 17,088,136 Tigraway S 3,224,875 3,284,443 Somali C 3,187,053 3,139,421 Gurage S 1,881,574 2,290,332 Sidama C 1,876,329 1,842,444 Welayta O 1,231,674 1,268,445 - note Welayta language Afar C 965,462 972,766 Hadiyya C 923,957 927,747 Gamo O 690,069 719,862 Gedeo C 637,082 639,879 Kafa O 569,626 599,146 - note Kingdom of Kaffa Kambaata C 487,654 499,631 - note Kambaata (language) Awngi C 356,980 397,494 Kulo O 313,228 331,477 Goffa O 233,340 241,818 Bench O 173,586 173,149 - note Bench language Ari O 158,857 155,065 - note Aari language Konso C 149,508 153,407 - note Konso language Kamir C 143,369 158,225 - Kamir people or Khamir/Hamir/Xamir Alaba C 126,257 125,894 Gumuz N 120,424 121,481 Berta N 116,084 118,670 - note Berta language Koyra O 103,879 107,586 Timbaro C 82,803 86,499 Yemsa O 81,614 165,770 Nuer N 64,907 64,527 Basketo O 57,805 51,089 Mocha O 54,894 53,846 Male O 53,779 46,458 Me’en N 52,015 52,808 - note Me'en (language) Gidole C 50,328 54,339 Konta O 48,987 49,625 Anywak N 45,646 45,656 Hamer O 42,838 42,448 Maraqo C 36,612 38,093 - another name for the Libido people Qabena C 35,783 35,065 Burji C 35,731 46,552 (watch out for Burji dynasty) Gawada C 32,698 33,945 Dasenech C 32,064 32,014 (properly Daasanach or Ðáasanač) Sheko O 24,106 23,772 Saho C 22,759 23,258 (i.e. Irob) Harari S 21,283 22,884 - note Harari language Dizi O 21,075 21,888 Dorze O 20,782 28,969 Mello O 20,151 20,181 Shinasha O 19,734 32,660 (associated w/Gumuz and Berta) Suri N 19,622 19,616 Oyda O 16,597 14,059 Mesengo N 15,152 15,329 Nyangatom N 14,177 14,201 Mao O 13,657 16,226 She O 13,116 13,164 Argobba S 10,860 62,912 - note Argobba language Zayse O 10,172 10,842 Fadashi N 8,715 7,323 Tsamay C 8,621 9,699 Zergula O 7,625 390 Chara O 6,932 6,976 Mossiya C 6,624 9,205 Dime O 6,501 6,189 Bodi N 4,570 4,685 Arbore C 4,441 6,622 Nao O 3,656 4,004 Mursi N 3,278 3,254 Kachama O 2,682 2,735 Kunama N 1,883 2,003 Kemant C 1,650 172,324 - at Qemant (properly Kemant or Kimant people) Koma N 1,435 1,522 Ganjule O 1,390 1,142 Mer O 989 1,195 Shita N 301 290 Gamili N 144 184 Guagu N 103 165 Kwama N 99 140 Gebato N 78 67 Mabaan N 25 21 Other langs 139,047 110,555
Kind of funny how there's a "She people," "Male people," "Mer people," and "Dime people." Also, does anyone know why Hamer is at Hammer? The Encyclopaedia Aethiopica has it at Hamär (by our translit, Hamer). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:46, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
- About the spelling of Hamer/Hammer -- I guess that's how the person who created the article spelled it. If there's no gemination of the "m", then it should be fixed. (Nice list, BTW.) -- llywrch 05:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
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- I think a move is in order, then, as there doesn't seem to be gemination (the Encylopaedia Aethiopica has always marked it in my experience). Hopefully you can use this list (along with the "debub.net" site I referred you to earlier) to complete your SNNPR list, as most of the above are from that area (and thanks for fixing my spelling mistake). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 08:14, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Yes, I found the Debub.net site quite useful with its maps -- I can always use more maps. :) Are these spellings the ones we should standardize on? If so, I'll start helping with the work. -- llywrch 01:12, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
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- No, the spellings above were those of Grover Hudson. I was just quoting him directly. I guess I'll go through them and use standardized spellings throughout where possible. Some can be cross-checked with the Encyclopaedia Aethiopica (e.g. I found out that "she" and "mer" would by "Shé" and "Mér" using our transliteration system), but we may have to make a guess for some of them (a copy of Amharic version of the 1994 census would be great so that we could see the original fidel characters, but I don't think that's possible). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 01:20, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
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I attempted to do a similar project on the German wikipedia, listing all Ethiopian ethnicities together with their language, religion and region. Maybe it is of any help to you. Have a look at: de:Liste der Ethnien in Äthiopien. If you have any information about the smaller groups, I'd be interested to learn about it. Could for instance the Mabaan with only 21 members be considered a seperate ethnicity, or are there maybe more of them in other countries? -- Bamse 02:29, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- First, that's a nice table of ethnic groups on de.wikipedia, Bamse -- very well laid out. Now to your question about the Mabaan: from their article at the Joshua Project (a website about various ethnicities in the world maintained by an Evangelical Christian group), it appears that the Maaban are native to neighboring Sudan, & a few have crossed the border into Ethiopia looking for new places to live. An interesting point is that the Joshua Project entry states that 3400 Mabaan live in Ethiopia, while Hudson's information is that only 21-25 live in Ethiopia. -- llywrch 17:22, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
- Great table, Bamse. I can't really think on a way to improve on it for the English version, except maybe adding 1984 census data (which I don't have access to right now). Regarding the Mabaan and others, most of those groups are in the Southwest, and live in bordering countries like in Sudan and Kenya, as Llywrch said. Interesting data, Llywrch. I wonder where they got their numbers from, since that's a pretty large disrepancy. Perhaps they merged peoples with similar languages into the group? Either way, where did you get the religious data from Bamse, Joshuaproject or elsewhere? — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 18:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
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- Thanks. The religious data I took from wikipedia and the sources listed in "Literatur". I am not sure what to do with "traditional" which does not tell me much. Are there more specific terms that I could use instead? What are they? Another problem is the map. The one I use now includes present day Eritrea and has a bit low resolution. Maybe somebody could teach me how to create a good looking thumb from the pdf-source file. -- Bamse 02:24, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
- I am trying to find some information about the small groups in the 1994 census (see: de:Liste der Ethnien in Äthiopien). Maybe somebody could point me in the right direction. Specifically I am looking for: Gobato/Gebato/Gabato (anything), Kwama (relation to Komo), Gamili (anything), Shita (anything), Zergulla (relation to Zayse), Ganjule (Religion), Konta (anything). --Bamse 08:38, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
According to this press release from the Walta Information Center, an official study has determined that there are 56 nationalities who speak 45 different languages in the SNNPR. -- llywrch 00:18, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Controversy over the race of Ethiopians
Please take a look at Controversy over the race of Ethiopians and the AfD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Controversy over the race of Ethiopians. --Ezeu 10:42, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed deletion
I just stumbled across Damotra, a novel in Amharic which has been tagged with a PROD notice (basically, someone intends to do a speedy delete unless someone else objects). Does anyone here have any knowledge of this book or its author -- either so we can argue to keep it or agree to delete it? (I'll admit my ignorance, but I also know that the average printing of a book in Amharic would not be very large in size.) -- llywrch 20:14, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
- This I'm not to sure about. Although I've heard of neither, the author and newspaper seem on the safe side of notability (all edited by Shiferaw - a relative, friend or Moges himself?), but the book does not seem to be very notable. A google search shows 300 hits, almost all of which seem to be from Wikipedia and its mirrors. Asking Shiferaw to help establish its notability seems to be the best way to go about it (and if he doesn't respond, we can delete it since it's such a sub-stub). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 04:36, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] and another article
Stumbled across another stub, Queen eyleuka of Ethopia, wife of an "antediluvian" king Borsa. Never heard of either of them; a quick look thru the online version of the Kebra Nagast also fails to mention them. (This is the only contribution of this one editor.) Is this a likely hoax. & subject to speedy delete? -- llywrch 20:26, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
- Not sure if it's a hoax, but it sounds more like the article is about Napata, Kush or Meroe, from the wording "Antediluvian." Of course there was no Emperor Borsa, and probably not ever a king (since no Nile kingdoms would have existed in Ethiopia outside of the Solomonic kingdom that we wouldn't have known about). Let's WP:PROD it and ask its editor to clarify. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 04:28, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] And still more articles
I guess someone is sifting thru the biography stubs, because I've found that several articles about Ethiopian mucicians have been prodded. These include: Aragaw Bedaso, Dawit Yifru, Tamrat Desta, & Zelalem Mekuria. I know next to nothing about contemporary music in Ethiopia; is there some objective rule of thumb that can be used to say which are notable performers & avoid this in the future? -- llywrch 07:47, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
- A good question. Anybody know how this is done for other genres or cultural areas? I looked around a little and couldn't find anything. Could there be a minimum threshold, like at least one listed recording by a musician or at least two listed songs by a songwriter? — MikeG (talk) 15:01, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] About Gambela
I dont thick gambela is a city first. Gambela region came about first... and the major city was named gambela... gambela is first and foremost a region. The capital is then named after the region.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nolawip (talk • contribs) 03:08, 13 September 2006.
[edit] Tagging talk pages and assessing articles
Hi. If you still have work to do tagging talk pages and assessing articles, my AWB plugin might be of interest to you.
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- About support for "generic" WikiProject templates
- User guide
- About AWB (AutoWikiBrowser)
Hope that helps. If you have any questions or find any bugs please let me know on the plugin's talk page. --Kingboyk 12:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] I need some help on the language
Okay, I know this seems bizarre, because I've written a fair share of the articles on Ethiopia, I admit that I have no ability in the local languages. But I've encountered some pairs of geographical terms that I need help with as I work on the woreda articles. What do the following words mean:
- "Tahtay" (as in the woreda Tahtay Maychew) -- is it the same word as "Tach" (as in Tach Gayint)?
- "Laelay" (as in the woreda Laelay Adiyabo) -- is it the same word as "Lay" (as in Lay Armacho)?
I suspect that these correspond to the English "Upper" & "Lower" (as in, for example, "Upper Silesia"), but if so I have no clue which would be which. (And if I guessed, I know I would get it backwards; I still confuse my left & my right sometimes.)
One more word is "Zuria", as in "Bahir Dar Zuria"; I'd assume that "Zuria" means "Great" or "Greater" (as in "Greater London Area/Region"). Thanks in advance. -- llywrch 23:20, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- "Taḥtay" is Tigrinya for "below" while "Tach" is Amharic for below (I'm guessing on the Tigrinya, it's something like Taḥit in Ge'ez and Taḥat in Arabic), with the pharyngeal "ḥ" lost in Amharic and the "t" going to "ty" and then to "č." The same goes for the word "above," "Lay" (Amharic) and "La`ilay" (also spelled "Laelay"), where it's the loss of pharyngeals that makes the difference. As for "Zuria" (properly "Zuriya," but I think "Zuria" is a more common transliteration), the root "Z-R-Y" means "round," with "Zurya" meaning "surrounding area," which could be translated by "Greater." The first two can be translated as "Upper" and "Lower" since that's the style in English (as opposed to "above" and "below"). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 02:04, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
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- Great. Since it's easier for me to change the transliteration at this stage, Yom, which versions would you prefer I use -- "La'ilay" vs. "Laelay", "Zuria" or "Zurya" or "Zuriya"? -- llywrch 02:48, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
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- In the case of Laelay vs. La'ilay , I think the better accuracy of La'ilay warrants the use of the latter even if Laelay is more common ("e" is often used to represent sixth order vowels on pharyngeals). As for Zuria vs. Zuriya (the latter being the direct transliteration), there's little gain from the extra "y" in terms of accuracy (it simpily makes clear that the "i" does not represent a pharyngeal or glottal stop, which most English readers wouldn't assume anyway), and the former is much more preferred, so I would go with "Zuria." — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 16:32, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Somali clan anon
Hello all, Since I know that everyone loves dealing with Somali clan issues, I thought I'd let you know that 172.159.143.107 (talk • contribs) has been making some recent modifications I'm not qualified to judge, such as changing the most populous clan in various woredas in the Somali Region from Darod to Hawiye. - BanyanTree 13:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
- I noticed that yesterday, & at first glance it appears that the anon may be correct: the Hawiye clan territory does lie in the middle of the Somali Region, between the two major rivers (the Shabelle & the Ganala Dorya). I'm not about to change it back until I can find a citable source -- I've been using a variety of maps for this information, & I'd rather escalate this potential dispute to using better authorities than to Just Another Edit War. -- llywrch 19:17, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Project directory
Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 15:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] new pages
Hi again. I noticed that you all are keeping track of your new articles. In order to share the Ethiopia-specific contributions with the more general page over at Wikipedia:Africa-related regional notice board/New articles, I wonder if anyone would mind if I created a subpage at Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethiopia/New articles that could be transcluded both to the main project page here and to the AFR subpage? Cheers, BanyanTree 17:35, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] add articles from Category:Ethnic groups in Ethiopia to Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups?
Hi,
I wonder if it's OK for me to add articles from Category:Ethnic groups in Ethiopia to the WikiProject Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups? I'd also be adding that category to Category:Ethnic groups categories. I'll watch this page for about a week for a response; if I don't hear anything I'll go ahead and do it... Thanks! --Ling.Nut 02:09, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
