Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Buffyverse

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[edit] Delete Buffy Stuff

Wikipedia contains entirely too much Buffy stuff. The show was all right, but it's been off the air for years now, and, even when it was still broadcast, it never deserved all the attention it is given in Wikipedia. Other hit TV shows do not have anything near the coverage that this show receives. Is Joss Whedon secretly paying off the Wikipedia staff or has he hired an army of Wikiwriters to publicize his work? Ninety-five percent of the "articles" concerning Buffy deserve to be deleted, and, yes, I was (and remain) a fan of the show. -- This unsigned comment was left by User:207.200.116.202 14:31, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Notability is not an official policy, the term Notability is often very subjective and it is not mentioned in any of the official policy about deletion. Generally speaking Wikipedia official policy dictates that we only delete things when:
OR
  • ) They are very much included with the detailed descriptions of What Wikipedia is not. This includes in summary not a dictionary, not a publisher of original thought, not a soapbox, not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files, not a free host, blog, webspace provider or social networking site. The section that is often abused is Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, which at first sight might seem a useful phrase to delete whatever we don't like. However that section actually offers details to how such a directive should be used, offering eight specific examples: Lists of Frequently Asked Questions, Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics, Travel guides, Memorials, News reports, Genealogical entries, or phonebook entries, Directories, directory entries, or a resource for conducting business, Instruction manuals.
Some of the Buffyverse articles need deletion or work. E.g. The 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer and social issues' article has extensive original research (it looks like this article will soon be deleted), the article 'Big and little bad' is at the moment a glorified definition (but could be made into a proper article with work).
However the majority of Buffyverse articles generally don't break copyright, are verifiable (often from the episodes themselves), are reasonably non POV, are not based around original research, not dictionary definitions, not political, not advertisements, not lists of links/images/media, not blogs/free hosts/webspace/social networking, not Frequently Asked Questions, not Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics, not Travel guides, not Memorials, not News reports, not Genealogical entries, not phonebook entries, not Directories, not directory entries, not a resource for conducting business, not Instruction manuals.
Therefore the vast majority of Buffyverse articles deserve a place on Wikipedia as long as they continue to maintain such standards, and wikipedia contributors are willing to continue to write them. People who are concerned that other TV shows do not get enough relative attention, have nothing preventing them writing wikipedian material about those other shows. Wikipedia is not an academic encyclopedia limited to academic topics, and it is not a paper encyclopedia with practical limits to the number of topics we can cover other than verifiability and the other points described in WP:Not -- Paxomen 16:23, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't think User:207.200.116.202 is being at all fair - Buffy, Angel and all the spin-offs are part of one fictional universe which is both treated with the exact same respect and tarred with the same brush as Doctor Who, Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5 etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. It goes wothout saying that there are many articles based around the Buffyverse, as it a subject that many are passionate about and enthused by. So long as all the pages are relevant, well-written and interesting, I see no problem whatsoever with the amount of entires this topic inspires. NP Chilla 18:06, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

The wikipedian who has recently been using the joint wiki-addresses below may want to review deletion policies before using up so much of their efforts.

User talk:207.200.116.5 , User talk:207.200.116.9, User talk:207.200.116.11, User talk:207.200.116.12, User talk:207.200.116.69, User talk:207.200.116.70User talk:207.200.116.72, User talk:207.200.116.131, User talk:207.200.116.132, User talk:207.200.116.134, User talk:207.200.116.135, User talk:207.200.116.136, User talk:207.200.116.138, User talk:207.200.116.196, User talk:207.200.116.198, User talk:207.200.116.199, User talk:207.200.116.201, User talk:207.200.116.202.

-- Paxomen 02:17, 8 May 2006 (UTC) ________________________________________

Amen to that. Although there are a couple of articles that could be merged (Ben & Glory? Those two Wolfram & Hart dudes mentioned above?), and some which, as Paxomen rightly states, need work, there is no need whatsoever to go on a mass culling spree. NP Chilla 15:46, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree that there does NOT need to be a mass culling of Buffyverse info on Wikipedia. I only began watching Buffy/Angel within the last few months, and Wikipedia has been a great resource for learning about the series, examining relevant issues, and keeping track of episodes and plotlines. Thanks to everyone who has put so much effort into creating such a comprehensive reference system. Tambourineman 20:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)Tambourineman.

[edit] Wolfram & Hart employees

I recently went over the characters list. Wouldn't people like Gavin Park and Linwood Murrow, characters who really don't deserve their own page, best be served to be merged into a single article? Lindsey, Lilah and Holland are important enough to have their own pages, but these other two were really just as minimally recurrent as Forrest and Graham (from the Initiave). Kusonaga 20:51, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, maybe. Perhaps it would be wisest to merge these characters into the Wolfram & Hart page itself, as opposed to going to the (relatively strenuous) effort of creating a "Wolfram & Hart employees" page. NP Chilla 17:29, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
I have to agree with NP Chilla here. This seems a more logical approach. --Siva1979Talk to me 17:01, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
We actually started doing this a while ago. I would like to see a Wolfram & Hart employees article, much like the articles Initiative members and Sunnydale High School students. - Che Nuevara: Join the Revolution 16:23, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Could I just ask - how come Gavin Park has materialised on the Great Big Buffyverse Box of Death, when his article itself says that he is "one of the most marginal recurring characters"? Why do something like this when he might not be around for much longer... if you don't mind me asking. NP Chilla 22:11, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Supportspike.com Campaign #9: NOT FADE AWAY

Supportspike.com has just started a brand new campaign to target Fox.

The aim is to send postcards in support of a Spike DVD-movie directed by Tim Minear, and to have all the postcards arrive at the same time, on June 23rd (Whedon's birthday).

The campaign is being discussed here:

http://whedonesque.com/comments/10372

- Paxomen 17:48, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Can I systematically link to my website?

I created the Buffyology website. http://buffyology.com/ I was trying to add a link from each episode page here to my episode page, but someone thought I was a bot and deleted all the links. Or nearly all of them.

Can I link to my website from each page? If not, why not? There seems to be a completely random pattern -- some pages have no External Links section, some do, and some sites which have a page for each ep are linked pretty much at random. I think it would be logical to link to some sites like the Buffy Trivia site, http://restlessbtvs.com and the Buffyverse Dialog database too, from every page.

I have transcripts of every episode and a database of all characters, actors, writers and directors.

[edit] New article: Wolfram and Hart employees

I created the W&H employees article and merged Gavin Park and Linwood Murrow into it. I also took the tiny summaries from the lawyer list and put them in, but didn't add any new information because it's been ages since I saw any Angel other than season five. I thought about merging Knox into the article, because I believe that's where he belongs, but his current article is quite indepth -- possibly too indepth -- so I wanted to get a consensus here. His info would be shortened, but Knox, in my opinion, does not merit such a lengthy article. - Che Nuevara: Join the Revolution 12:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Archived

I archived conversations 1-20, as they were all stale. - Che Nuevara: Join the Revolution 12:21, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Key articles for Wikipedia 1.0

Hello! We at the Work via WikiProjects team previously contacted you here to identify the quality articles in your WikiProject, and now we need a few more favors. We would like you to identify the "key articles" from your project that should be included in offline releases of Wikipedia based on their importance, regardless of quality. We will use that information to assess which articles should be nominated for Version 1.0 (not yet open) and later versions. Hopefully it will help you identify which articles are the most important for the project to work on. As well, please keep updating your Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/WPArts#Wikipedia:WikiProject Buffyverse|Arts WikiProject article table]] for articles of high quality. If you are interested in developing a worklist such as this one for your WikiProject, or having a bot generate a worklist automatically for you, please contact us. Please feel free to post your suggestions right here. Thanks! Walkerma 06:03, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Just wanted to find out the results of this discussion, is this your official list of key articles? Thanks, Walkerma 01:03, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I can't speak for the rest of the project, but I understand there was no real consensus. I'll try to find what I think are the key articles and get back to you. - Che Nuevara: Join the Revolution 09:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wiki/Buffy navbar

I recently wrote a Firefox sidebar navigation bar for Wikipedia. There is also a WP:Buffyverse implementation in it with the community links replaced by important WP:BUFFY links. It's free for anyone to use; if you're interested, you can find both versions here. - Che Nuevara: Join the Revolution 10:30, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Firefly project launched!

Hi guys! Just thought I'd mention to fellow Whedonites that us Browncoats have started a WikiProject for Firefly/Serenity! Come join us! Project page is still bare bones because I just set it up tonight :-) -plange 04:31, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question on Wikify Tag

Someone recently put a wikify tag on the Expanded Overview section of City of (Angel episode). Via talk pages, I asked him why, and he said it was because there were few links and it was just a really long block of unadorned text. I'm not sure what to do about it. I don't think it needs much in the way of links, as the most linkable things are already linked in the summary. So, should there be subheadings, or less plot detail, or what? --Jwwalker 06:39, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Buffyverse

Buffyverse is up for deletion. Appreciated if people could have a look at the article, then read through the comments at the deletion forum.

I think it could certainly do with some work, but can't see any appropiate reason in Wikipedia:Deletion policy to delete the article. I believe that the user who nominated the article for deletion (Lesqual) is essentially arguing that because the Buffyverse already has many detailed pages, that the article for 'Buffyverse' itself is not needed. However shouldn't that logic mean we don't need a generic Star Trek article since the films and TV series already have their own pages? -- Paxomen 16:18, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not up for deletion any more, the result was keep. --Jwwalker 17:10, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Buffy CCG

Okay, I have no idea how to do this, but can someone please add the page for the Buffy CCG (Collectable Card Game) to the 'Buffyversenav' box under spin-offs? It should be up there with the toys, video games and RPGs.Jayunderscorezero 11:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Added link to Buffy the Vampire Slayer Collectible Card Game, it's called 'Card Game' in the spinoffs section. -- Paxomen 12:15, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Cool. Thanks for that.Jayunderscorezero 12:55, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Seeing Red

With regard to Seeing Red (Buffy episode):

A stray bullet takes a wicked through the upstairs window and kills Tara almost instantly, her blood splattered all over Willow.

This should be ... ? — Mike (talk • contribs) 04:32, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I changed it to A stray bullet takes a route through the upstairs window ..". If you spot more grammar issues.. remember the Wikipedia guideline: Be bold in updating pages. -- Paxomen 10:25, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm familiar with WP:BOLD. But if you don't know what was originally meant to be said, you can't really update it yourself. — Mike (talk • contribs)
That's true :) -- Paxomen 01:23, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hero

Regarding "Hero" (Angel episode).

Twice -- in the description of the character Allen Francis Doyle, and in the description of the episode Hero -- the same mistake is made. Those descriptions are as follows:

"The two exchanged a passionate kiss; a blue ribbon of electricity passing between them as he gave her his visions, which changed the course of her life considerably." (Wiki, description of Allen Francis Doyle)

"Then he hauls back and hits Angel, knocking him into the cargo hold. Doyle grabs Cordelia and they kiss, a blue light passing between their lips." (Wiki, description of Angel episode "Hero")

If you watch the episode (as I just did again), you will note that the "light between the lips" of Doyle and Cordelia is the brightening lamp being used by the Scourge increasing in luminosity in the background. It's a nice thought, that there would be some visible sign of the transfer of seer abilities, but it would have risked giving the important plot moment away. Check the episode and you will see that there is no outward sign, though the light and camera angle may have intended to be symbolic. This should be changed a.s.a.p.. I did not do so because I am not a regular contributor to the Buffyverse wiki.

-- Freemount, October 15, 2006

I disagree. The blue light seems like an obvious special effect to me. You can see that scene on youtube here (skip to the 2.45 mark).--Nalvage 15:06, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Buffyverse Magazines (UK)

I recently created the article, Buffyverse Magazines (UK), but I'm lacking Buffy mag #44. Does anyone have this issue, and therefore could let me know the interviews/features it includes? I've seen a photograph of the cover on ebay (and therefore know it contains interviews with Emma Caulfield, & Elizabeth Anne Allen, and a set report on "Selfless"), but are there any other interviews/features, and what is reviewed in 'Grave Reviews' section? -- Paxomen 16:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, I got hold of #44 (completing collection), so filled in the details already -- Paxomen 15:27, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Buffyverse-box character inclusions

Could I just ask - how come Gavin Park has materialised on the Great Big Buffyverse Box of Death, when his article itself says that he is "one of the most marginal recurring characters"? Why do something like this when he might not be around for much longer... if you don't mind me asking. NP Chilla 22:11, 28 May 2006 (UTC) (from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Buffyverse#Wolfram & Hart employees)

Most recent character additions to box:
  • User:200.232.155.106 added Gavin & Caleb.
  • Viper h added Principals Snyder and Wood.
  • John Kenney added Jenny Calendar, Kate Lockley, Forrest, Graham, and Kennedy.
We could be going down a slippery slope, how long until we are faced with the addition of The Cheese Man. Perhaps we should set some kind of guidelines for characters that can be on the box (episode count? ..but that sometimes can be misleading e.g. Graham had a high episode count but very little accumlative screentime/lines - and was arguably a glorified extra)
If I were making the guidelines, I would say:
The people who appeared in the opening credits (Scooby Gang & Fang Gang/FG) appear in the box, and the most important villains/friends who had a significant emotional impact on multiple of those opening credits characters - as long as they have a significant episode count, and preferably if they appear in three or more seasons.
That is of course still highly subjective but anyway.. This would immediately discount recurring characters who did not have much of an impact on the SG/FG - such as Gavin, Graham, Forrest. Characters up for debate under such guidelines might include: Adam, Amy, Caleb, Principal Snyder, Principal Wood, Professor Walsh, Eve, Hamilton, Holland, Jasmine, Kate, Kennedy, Warren.
If I were choosing of these characters up for debate, I would get rid of the Principals, Eve, Hamilton and leave the rest.
Perhaps after deciding which characters belong on the box, we could have put some invisible text in the box advising wikipedians to not add further characters without discussion).
What are people's thoughts? -- Paxomen 23:11, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
The box should, I think we'll all agree, involve the most important characters and articles to the Buffyverse and its story. Therefore, adding superfluous characters who only had a marginal prescence/effect can only be detrimental.
Paxomen has hit the nail on the head with his theoretical "guidelines" - significance over size. NP Chilla 10:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
I removed some characters (Eve, Hamilton, Principals, Graham, Forrest, and Gavin) and put up an invisi message to discuss further changes here (see Template:Buffyversenav history).

[edit] Keeping the characters to 2 rows

At the moment the template:Buffyversenav has only 2 rows for each category (at least on my screen - is that the case for everyone else?). IMO it should stay that way, rather than get bigger going into three rows and making the whole box bigger. IMO if we add another character, we could remove one already there? What are peeps thoughts. -- Paxomen 17:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

On my screen, it's already 4 rows, with the 4th row only having a few names on it. Different people will have their monitors set to different resolutions, and they can also set their text size differently. There's no point in trying to make the template look perfect for your particular screen setup, as others' will be different. --Xyzzyplugh 05:50, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
I noticed you have also said elsewhere "I understand that an attempt has been made to make the infobox look perfect for one particular editor's monitor." Maybe I didn't make it clear but I wasn't trying to craft Wikipedia for my own personal use by specifically making the box specifically for my screen, that's why I asked the question above "is that the case for everyone else?.. What are peeps thoughts." so that others could say if it wasn't the case that every section had two rows.. Also if you are also referring to the addition/removal of certain characters - that is about drawing a line somewhere after attempts to add minor recurring characters like Gavin, Forrest and Graham. IMO this is necessary, and other users also felt that a line had to be drawn somewhere (see subsection above) . -- Paxomen 12:00, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, the infobox clearly shouldn't have every character who has ever appeared on the show. As to the 2 line thing - try changing your monitor's resolution to 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x960, 1280x1024, 1600x1200, these are all common resolutions, and see what it does to the infobox. Then try changing the text size(in version 7 of internet explorer, it's in the Page menu at the top of the screen), this also changes the layout of the infobox. The infobox is going to look different for different people based on their own personal setup. --Xyzzyplugh 00:12, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
It's two rows for me too. I like it that way. Kusonaga 12:45, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] On the subject of Amy Madison

I noticed that Amy is listed in the main character directory as a reccuring character, but not on the bar at the bottom of the page. Is there a reason for this, or is it an oversight? She has her own article, it just takes a while to get there. I reccomend she be added to the people directory, because by standard of comparison she's probably been in more episodes than Eve. If I've overlooked something I appologize in advance, I just had trouble finding her today. -- Unsigned comment from: User:MaskedScissorDoll 16:51, 1 August 2006

Assuming you mean on the Template:Buffyversenav? -- Paxomen 17:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
And you would be correct in your assumption. Incorportating previous arguments into my own, I'd say Amy is one of the most influential minor characters in the show. First appearing in season one, Amy helped define what a witch is/can do. Further, she set the precedent of witches abusing power. She was present, be it as her human self or as a rat, for most of the series. I find it easy to infer that Amy helped Willow develop as a character by helping Willow find the worst side of herself. By doing this, she affected every member of the cast. Also, Amy accidentally showed Xander (in the first of many incidents) that magic doesn't always make things easier when she botched a love spell. I understand that the box doesn't need to be cluttered, so if it's an absolutely not situation I get that, but I just kind of think she should be there. She seems as important to the series as Eve or Professor Walsh... But then again, she's not technicly an enemy or one of the main characters, so I'm probably wrong.--MaskedScissorDoll 20:14, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeah I'd agree Amy probably deserves to go there rather than Eve. I removed Eve and added Amy, so that the character section is still only 2 rows. -- Paxomen 22:11, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Articles for deletion

[edit] Fluffy the English Vampire Slayer

Fluffy the English Vampire Slayer is up for deletion. Appreciated if people could have a look at the article, then read through the comments at the deletion forum, before voting.

-- Paxomen 12:49, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

RESULT: SURVIVAL.

[edit] Template:Buffycanon

Template:Buffycanon is up for deletion. It's generally used at the top of articles of uncanon materials such as unused scripts, novels, video games, most of the comics.. Appreciated if people could have a look at the use of the template (e.g. see top of Buffy the Vampire Slayer (film)), then read through the comments at the deletion forum, before voting. -- Paxomen 16:05, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

RESULT: DELETION.

[edit] Buffy the Vampire Slayer adult parodies

One for just the grown-ups here, but Buffy the Vampire Slayer adult parodies is up for deletion. Appreciated if those people who won't be offended by such an article (it's about the 4 pornographic spoofs of Buffy) could have a look at the article, Buffy the Vampire Slayer adult parodies then read through the comments at the deletion forum, before voting.

-- Buffyverse 20:27, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

RESULT: SURVIVAL.

[edit] Buffyverse studies

Buffyverse studies is up for deletion. Appreciated if people could have a look at the article, then read through the comments at the deletion forum, before voting. -- Paxomen 07:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

RESULT: SURVIAL (but renamed to Buffy studies by consensus)

[edit] Chronology templates

Can someone explain to me the significance of the individual chronology templates being used on Buffy episode pages? For example, Template:Buffychron2001b. I don't see how their inclusion is at all helpful in an encyclopedic way. If anything, it's just confusing and uses up too much space. I understand what they're trying to illustrate, but I think it fails at this and just adds confusion. scarecroe 15:25, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I created them thinking it might be useful for some people using the episode articles, who might want to know where the episode fell in the greater scheme of the stories.. or else used as a navigation tool to get to a nearby episode or other story - say you want to skip ahead three episodes.. or find out what's happening in Buffy comics at that point in the story. Essentially it is a mini timeline showing surrounding stories. See below the example of how it appears in "Welcome to the Hellmouth" and every other article.

Timing

  • Stories that take place around the same time in the Buffyverse:
Location, time
(if known)		 Buffyverse chronology: Spring 1996 - Spring 1997
(non-canon = italic)
Los Angeles, summer 1996 Film version of Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Los Angeles, summer 1996 Buffy graphic novel: The Origin
Los Angeles, summer 1996 Buffy graphic novel: Viva Las Buffy
Los Angeles, summer 1996 Buffy graphic novel: Slayer Interrupted
Los Angeles, summer 1996 Buffy graphic novel: A Stake to the Heart
Sunnydale, fall 1996 B1.00 Unaired Buffy pilot
Sunnydale, fall 1996 B1.01 Welcome to the Hellmouth
Sunnydale, fall 1996 B1.02 The Harvest
Sunnydale, fall 1996 WB Buffy promo: History of the Slayer
Sunnydale, fall 1996 B1.03 Witch
Sunnydale, fall 1996 B1.04 Teacher's Pet
Sunnydale, Halloween 1996 Buffy book: Halloween Rain
Sunnydale, 1996/7 Buffy book: Night of the Living Rerun
Sunnydale, 1996/7 B1.05 Never Kill a Boy on the First Date
Sunnydale, 1996/7 B1.06 The Pack
Sunnydale, 1996/7 B1.07 Angel
Sunnydale, 1996/7 Buffy the Animated Series unaired four-minute pilot
Sunnydale, 1996/7 B1.08 I, Robot... You, Jane
Sunnydale, 1996/7 B1.09 The Puppet Show
Sunnydale, 1996/7 B1.10 Nightmares
Sunnydale, 1996/7 B1.11 Out of Mind, Out of Sight
Sunnydale, spring 1997 B1.12 Prophecy Girl
Sunnydale, summer 1997 Buffy book: Coyote Moon
Sunnydale, & L.A., summer 1997 Buffy anthology book: How I Survived My Summer Vacation

I tried to prevent it being confusing by only using it in a section called 'Timing' (sub-section of 'Continuity'). And also saying above the chart Stories that take place around the same time in the Buffyverse:. -- Paxomen 00:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I find this to be a useful tool and I hope that it stays - having a comprehensive reference of how all the buffyverse sources and stories fit together is highly helpful and, I believe, appropriate. Tambourineman 20:12, 23 August 2006 (UTC)tambourineman


If we have suggestions to change the chronology, where do we bring them? For instance, I'd suggest that Buffy 4x01 (The Freshman) come before rather than after Angel 1x01 (City of) because of the phone call that takes place between them (Buffy answering "Hello? Hello?" which is near the end of 4x01 but the beginning of 1x01). For this and other suggestions, where do I bring them? Kimpire 19:35, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Buffy cast image

Hi, I recently managed to get this image Image:Buffy The Vampire Slayer cast.jpg to be released under a free license. Unfortunately it doesn't has Sarah Michelle Gellar on it. (to make it more complete). Perhaps it also could be used to replace some fair use images of the actors in it. Since I am not much into Buffyverse or photoshop I was hoping I could delegate the work of placing it in article space and or photoshopping to this project. :) Garion96 (talk) 11:46, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

It very much -does- have SMG in it. Far right, in Joss' arm. I know it's hard to see her now that she weighs 47 pounds, but she's there. - CheNuevara 02:36, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Good work though! - CheNuevara 02:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
As the image label says, that's not SMG next to Joss, it's Michelle Trachtenberg. --Jwwalker 16:16, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
I assume Che was making a funny. Kusonaga 16:33, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Me? Never! :) - CheNuevara 16:42, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
And some more. I put them in this category on commons. Commons:Category:Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Garion96 (talk) 20:45, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Buffy the Vampire Slayer cast and crew

This category has been listed for deletion (AGAIN) at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 September 29. Please participate in the "discussion". Tim! 22:11, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad that the result was not delete, but still feel that only using categories here has limitations. So I have created a fairly basic List of Buffyverse cast and crew article which could benefit from further expansion (e.g. a brief description of a sentence or two on the role of each cast/crew member)

[edit] Featured article candidate review: Buffy article

Hi

Just letting people know that the article 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' is undergoing review to be a featured article. It might even be possible to get the article on the front page on March 10th 2007, (10th anniversary of Buffy - 10 years since "Welcome to the Hellmouth" was first seen).

Any feedback you can offer to improve the article and/or to either object or support the nomination, would be wonderful. Thanks -- Paxomen 18:07, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Buffy nomination restarted: A huge amount of editing has gone into this article over the past few weeks, but you can still help improve it by improving the use of language and eliminating any bad grammar you find. Have a look at the article Buffy article and you might be interested in voting to object/support to the page becoming a Featured article. -- Buffyverse 23:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project Directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:

  • User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory,
  • User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2,
  • User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory,
  • User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory,
  • User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory,
  • User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States, (note: This page will be retitled to more accurately reflect its contents)
  • User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory, and
  • User:Badbilltucker/Science directory

and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 21:58, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now moved the new draft in the old directory pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you. B2T2 13:39, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category rename discussion

Just FYI, there's a discussion of the category Cat:Vampire Slayers and the term Buffyverse here. Cheers, Pegship 19:08, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] stubs for deletion

This is just to let you know that the following stubs related to WP:BUFFY are being proposed for deletion. I can see that the only official stub you have listed is {{Buffyverse-stub}} and that stub is not in danger. Feel free to voice your opinion on the appropriate SFD page. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 19:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

The list seems to be missing somehow (probably a copy-paste error). Anyway, the templates and categories Amalas was referring to are:
  • {{Angel-episode-stub}} / Cat:Angel episode stubs
  • {{Buffy-episode-stub}} / Cat:Buffy episode stubs
  • {{Whedon-stub}}
Please note that stub templates are used on articles less than 10 sentences long. By the definition of some editors, the standard is three sentences in length. Regards. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 12:04, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Buffyverse wiki

I've created a new wiki for Buffyverse content at wikiasite:buffy. It is not for encyclopedic content and doesn't aim to duplicate Wikipedia. Instead, the articles are mostly made up of trivia and quotes sections which can be expanded to include unverifiable material and original research, which wouldn't be allowed on Wikipedia. At the moment, the site doesn't have much original content since I basically took a cut down version of 700 Wikipedia articles to get it started - usually cutting out the extended episode summaries and most non-trivia sections. See the About page for more details. I hope some people from this WikiProject will join the new wiki and help to ensure it develops into a useful resource by and for fans for everything that Wikipedia can't provide. We also need some new admins there, so let me know if you'd like to volunteer for that. Angela. 15:24, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Naming of episode articles

Greetings, Buffyverse editors!

As you may be aware, for the last several weeks there has been extensive discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (television) about how Wikipedia articles on television episodes should be named. Editors from many areas of Wikipedia, including members of several different television WikiProjects, have worked together and come up with a general guideline that article titles should include disambiguating phrases only when there is another article on Wikipedia with the same name as the episode name. Thus, if you were creating episode articles for Knight Rider, the episode Circus Knights would not need any disambiguation, whereas Nobody Does It Better (Knight Rider) would, in order to differentiate it from Nobody Does It Better (song). However, the guideline also recommends that Circus Knights (Knight Rider) exist as a redirect to the episode.

The discussion has been fairly well-advertised at the Village Pump, in many WikiProjects' talk pages and on the talk pages of many television program episode lists. However, the editors contributing to the discussion at WP:TV-NC felt that it was appropriate to make one last call at affected WikiProjects for discussion before people started moving episode articles to new names.

We appreciate the work that editors do in every area of Wikipedia, and want you to feel included in the decision-making process. Thank you for your help!

[edit] Request for comment - naming of episode articles

There is currently an active debate at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (television) about the naming of episode articles, such as when it is appropriate to use a suffix such as (<series name> episode), and whether or not WikiProjects should have the right to set guidelines for their particular shows. Any interested editors are invited to comment, at Wikipedia_talk:Naming conventions (television)#Request for comment. --Elonka 09:02, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, that's not what's being debated. The issue is whether wikiprojects can set guidlines that contradict the global guidelines of wikipedia. There hasn't been a single argument that wikiprojects shouldn't have the right to make their own guidelines. --Milo H Minderbinder 14:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Hello fellow Buffy editors. Actually, there is disagreement about what is being debated. There are talk pages for your perusal, provided above, and there are sub-debates about whether mediation is appropriate and what to talk about there, and what the actual disagreement is. (see more at Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/Wikipedia:Naming conventions (television)). The conflict at least seems to be in the general area of "disambiguation issues for naming conventions for television episodes", which as you can see will affect how Buffy articles are titled (or retitled when the current majority there gets around to it). I don't care what your position is, but the discussion there is getting somewhat stale and frustrations are kind of high. Everybody in the discussion needs to really get into 'constructive mode', so any input in any of the areas of disagreement that you perceive would be greatly appreciated, particularly as relates to that discussion's effects on projects other than Lost (um, you). Again, regardless of your position, a fresh eye and new perspective would be very, very cool. Riverbend 00:43, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Episode Guide Copyright

Much of the text appearing on Buffy episode descriptions appears identical to text appearing on various fan sites. Can someone verify for me whether or not we actually have permission to use this material? Dragons flight 05:39, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

The users AnGeL X & BuffyGuide gave permission for the use of synopses from their sites (also see Wikipedia:WikiProject Buffyverse/Episodes#Contributors and their contributions) -- Buffyverse 14:21, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Okay, AnGeL X's angelicslayer.com seems to cover the material that caught my eye. Since this material often appears as large, unwikified blocks it obviously looks suspicious, but it was hard to tell where it was coming from because the same text often seems to appear on a variety of websites, and there is nothing in the history or talk of the pages I looked at to explain where it was coming from. Dragons flight 15:04, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
I've moved this section down to the end of this talk page since this is a current issue. User:BuffyGuide did not have permission to copy text from BuffyGuide.com. See user talk:BuffyGuide. I expect the same might be true of AnGeL X's contributions. This means almost of episode guides are copyright violations dating back to March 2006. Angela. 01:53, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Some of these articles are now on deletion review. Angela. 07:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm extremely puzzled and disappointed by this whole situation. I contacted BuffyGuide through http://www.buffyguide.com/mail/contact.shtml to ask whether they were interested in sharing the short summaries on Wikipedia. I offered to create a ghost account called 'BuffyGuide.com' which would represent the site and the respect work (since this was not allowed I created 'BuffyGuide'). I did this with premission and agreement because I told the web master that I did not deserve credit for adding these summaries to Wikipdeia when the much harder work was their creation. My workplace blocks access to email right now, but I'm sure I will still have those emails detailing our correspondence over this issue. I have explained the situation to the user, Actual BuffyGuide here, hopefully this whole situation will be cleared up, because to be honest I am very confused as to why I was told that using the summaries was fine after contacting the site through http://www.buffyguide.com/mail/contact.shtml, and now Actual BuffyGuide are stating that material has been used without permission? I will find those emails later when I have access to my email, and also email the web master again to find out what is going on?
Similarly, I contacted AnGeL X through her email at http://www.angelicslayer.com/angelsoul/main.html, about the use of synopses, and she generously allowed their use on Wikipedia. Once again I offered to setup an account, AnGeL X to make it clear I had not written these synopses, but they had come from the web site, angelicslayer.com. - Paxomen 10:10, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Please can you forward those emails to permissions@wikimedia.org so the Foundation has a record of this? Angela. 12:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Just to chime in with a very short paraphrase of what I've posted elsewhere - Paxomen did believe that he had my permission, but it wasn't actually me who granted that permission (not his fault). And the GFDL is indeed the reason why I'm not granting it now - I'm just not prepared to offer my work up to the whole world. -- Actual BuffyGuide 07:41, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I just removed every single piece of text added by the user Buffyguide. AnGeL X is another matter (do we know for certain that's a copyright violation yet?), but Buffyguide is dealt with.--Nalvage 05:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Thank you to 'Actual BuffyGuide' for explaining what happened at your discussion page by showing the email you just sent me there. For those not in the know, the whole sitch so far:
1: In March this year, I emailed BuffyGuide.com web master, and asked if Wikipedia could use the summaries under a 'BuffyGuide' account. I received emails (plural) back from the web master's email account confirming this. In these emails the person who sent the emails back to me, even signed their name as her.
2: Believeing I had the permission to do this, and never even thinking there would be a possibility of any problem, I created the 'BuffyGuide' account and used it only to create brief summaries for episode articles.
3: In past few days, the web master created the wiki account, User:Actual BuffyGuide, and said that material was taken without permission.
4: User:Centrx became aware of 'Actual BuffyGuide' and deleted many Buffy episode articles
5: I emailed the web master in a state of confusion (Actual BuffyGuide), she has since emailed me back after finding emails in her own inbox giving permission to me. She has said she was unaware of the emails and that it is most likely that over the period of a few days a family member repeatedly hacked into her email account and pretended to be her, (see User talk:Actual BuffyGuide).
6: Nalvage sensibly deleted the additions made by the 'BuffyGuide' account as copyvios.
7: I have emailed her back and asked if she could appeal directly to User:Centrx to return the deleted Buffy episode articles at least the versions before March 2006, and preferably the most recent versions simply with the 'Summary' section removed. IMO those Buffy Season 1 articles were all done really well, much better than most buffyverse episode articles.
On AnGeL X: Unless someone also hacked into "AnGeL X"s email account without her knowing, and emailed me back pretending to be AnGeL X, we have her permission and support to use her synopses. In fact I re-read the emails we sent to each other yesterday, and found out after I had emailed asking for use of synopses, she suggested setting up an account called 'AnGeL X' for me to add the synopses. Nonetheless, under the current circumstances it's best I email her tonight and ask if she would be kind enough to also send an email to permissions@wikimedia.org, and/or maybe even put a brief note on her web site somewhere stating that the synopses can be used at Wikipedia, and so hopefully I will hear back from her within a few days. -- Paxomen 10:33, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Asking if the "synopses can be used at Wikipedia" is not enough. People need to understand that they will be releasing their text under the GFDL and all that entails. It is not simply a matter of us using their text here on Wikipedia. It will be used on numerous mirrors, forks etc and may even be used commercially. Sarah Ewart (Talk) 13:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
That's true, & I've emailed her about GFDL, and the synopses, and shall await a response. - Paxomen 12:42, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lists of Slayers

As well as the basic list of Slayers on the Slayer (Buffyverse) page, and the list on the Potential and new Slayers page, we've also got:
1. Other vampire slayers
2. Buffyverse Slayer timeline, and
3. Buffyverse Slayer timeline (canon)
..with number 1. on that list being kinda like a half-complete version of number 2., for instance having some Slayers from Tales of the Slayers but not all. Is having all these lists too confusing? --Nalvage 12:12, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes. There really is no need for the other vampire slayers page, if most of that info would be incorporated into the timeline articles. It's a rather redundant article, since the timeline articles are much more complete. Kusonaga 12:17, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Ditto on 'Other vampire slayers' being merged where needed to timelines. Not sure what we should do with 'Potential and new Slayers'? - Paxomen 12:42, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I'd suggest adding that article in too. Kusonaga 13:18, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I just shifted the list on Slayer (Buffyverse) onto the timeline page, and also added some info from Other vampire slayers. So the Other vampire slayers page is now redundant, and can probably be deleted. I'll go chase up any links to it and make them link to the timeline page instead. The Potential and new Slayers page has a lot of info, perhaps too much to simply add to the timeline without serious editing. I'll leave that for others ;)--Nalvage 15:29, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stablepedia

Beginning cross-post.

See Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team#Stablepedia. If you wish to comment, please comment there. ★MESSEDROCKER★ 23:25, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

End cross-post. Please do not comment more in this section.

[edit] Episode articles

I think now might be a good time to discuss how we want to structure the episode articles. There have been some recent changes to Buffy Season 1 by User:Redsignal.

E.g. Welcome to the Hellmouth, The Witch, and most of Buffy Season 1 episodes

In brief, Redsignal is making them much shorter. This involes deleting and removing certain sections & content including 'Cut dialogue' (from Watcher's Guides or published shooting scripts), 'Arc significance', 'Writing', 'Cultural references' and 'Production details'. I think we we should try to cite and/or improve rather than delete.

I think we should make an effort to comment on these matters and reach a consensus, because there is no point in people working on episode articles, then seeing their work deleted.

Do we want to try to create, maintain and cite sections like 'Writing', 'Production details', 'Arc significance'? (Also structurally, do we want 'Music' and 'Translations' to appear as subsections within 'Production details'?) Or do we want simple short articles? -- Buffyverse 10:26, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I think that we should keep the information in there as there is more to an episode than simply the plot and actors, which is essentially what alot of these are becoming. As far as the structure of the article, I prefer the individual sections as the stand out easier when scanning through an article, but either way is fine with me. Gatorsong 04:18, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

There are problems with a lot of the episode articles; the summaries are, by and large, too long. There is a lot of (at least potential) copyright issue in there. Things do definitely need to be sourced. But relevant and verifiable information should stay in. - Che Nuevara 20:59, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Gatorsong. I prefered the layout and the summaries before the most recent edits. In fact, the only reason I made a Wiki account was to comment on the recent changes because I couldn't find information that had been recently deleted. I'm very new to Wiki and appreciate all the hardwork that goes into creating these articles. I hate seeing it disappear. QuinnZadok 14:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I've added a note on Redsignal's Talk page to let them know that the issue has been raised here.--Nalvage 15:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I would think that (if properly sourced) those topics would add needed out-of-universe context, no? I think they should be there, and we should have a task list of what needs to be done to improve them. Riverbend 15:31, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Articles for deletion

[edit] Fluffy the English Vampire Slayer

Fluffy the English Vampire Slayer is up for deletion. Appreciated if people could have a look at the article, then read through the comments at the deletion forum, before voting.

-- Paxomen 12:49, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

RESULT: SURVIVAL.

[edit] Template:Buffycanon

Template:Buffycanon is up for deletion. It's generally used at the top of articles of uncanon materials such as unused scripts, novels, video games, most of the comics.. Appreciated if people could have a look at the use of the template (e.g. see top of Buffy the Vampire Slayer (film)), then read through the comments at the deletion forum, before voting. -- Paxomen 16:05, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

RESULT: DELETION.

[edit] Buffy the Vampire Slayer adult parodies

One for just the grown-ups here, but Buffy the Vampire Slayer adult parodies is up for deletion. Appreciated if those people who won't be offended by such an article (it's about the 4 pornographic spoofs of Buffy) could have a look at the article, Buffy the Vampire Slayer adult parodies then read through the comments at the deletion forum, before voting.

-- Buffyverse 20:27, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

RESULT: SURVIVAL.

[edit] Buffyverse fanfilms

Buffyverse (Fan made productions) is up for deletion.

In addition,related articles are also nominated for deletion, the Buffyverse fan films: Forgotten Memories, Consanguinity, and Cherub.

Would be hugely appreciated if people are willing to have a look at these articles, and get involved in the discussions to either Keep, Merge, or Delete. -- Paxomen 12:55, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

-- Buffyverse 20:27, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

RESULT: UNDETERMINED (as of now Delete 5, Keep 1)

[edit] Cover images

Take the The Curse (Angel comic) page. That's just WAY too many images. They serve no encyclopedic use. We really need someone to go through those articles and take out the redundant images and get them deleted. It's A) not pretty and B) not necessary. Kusonaga 10:19, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Then change it: either re-arrange it or delete the excess images. But make sure you go through all the Angel comics to make sure it's uniform with the others. -- Majin Gojira 16:17, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Created by

In the info boxes on the character pages there's a "Created by" line, but there isn't total consistency. Most just say Joss Whedon, but some say Joss and the writer of the episode the character first appeared in. So, should they all have that extra writer's name? Or none? And if Joss is there by virtue of being the creator, then I guess Greenwalt should be credited on all the Angel character pages. But if Joss is there as the Exec. Producer, then Noxon and Minear should probably make appearances too.--Nalvage 17:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Do you want every character's page to have the name of the writer of his first episode? - NP Chilla 18:41, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Currently some do already. What I'm suggesting is that there should be consistency on that score. There doesn't seem to have been a decision made as to whether they should or shouldn't, or why Whedon's name is there but not Greenwalt's or Noxon's or Minear's. Thought I'd ask people's opinions on which names should be present--Nalvage 05:58, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Oh, I see what you mean now. Hmm... I honestly don't know what would be the right thing to do; but I would say it's worth mentioning somewhere in a character;s article. - NP Chilla 13:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
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