Wikipedia talk:WikiProject BBC

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Contents 1 Which parts of the BBC does this project deal with? 2 BBC One Scotland 3 Islands 4 BBC Logos 5 Project Directory 6 Category:Lost BBC episodes

[edit] Which parts of the BBC does this project deal with?

You might indicate on the project page whether this project deals with the BBC in all of its aspects, like BBC radio, BBC television, and whatever else, or not. Right now, the project page is rather vague in that area, and it would be useful for an outsider like me to know, so that it could be placed in the appropriate areas of the directory to publicize it. Thanks. Badbilltucker 21:36, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, do those employed directly by the corporation or who appear on BBC programmes count? I created Category:BBC newsreaders and journalists and have been working on List of former BBC newsreaders and journalists. Would they count under the project? Wikiwoohoo _talk 15:55, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

The BBC being so huge, and Wikipedia so (what's bigger than "huge"...?) unlimited, I think it's a good idea that we absorb all BBC-related articles. Why tie the Wikiproject down to just TV or just BBC output. The joy of the BBC (I only say such things on talk pages, honestly) is the immense breadth of the organisation, its unparalleled history and way it touches everybody in the UK and so many people world-wide. The bigger the better for this project, IMHO! ➨ ЯEDVERS 19:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure whether "absorb" is definitely, the right word here. There are, after all, already a large number of projects dealing with the BBC, including Wikipedia:WikiProject Blackadder, Wikipedia:WikiProject Dad's Army, Wikipedia:WikiProject Doctor Who, Wikipedia:WikiProject EastEnders, Wikipedia:WikiProject Fawlty Towers, Wikipedia:WikiProject HHGTTG, Wikipedia:WikiProject Monty Python, Wikipedia:WikiProject Spooks, and, to a lesser degree, Wikipedia:WikiProject Holmes and Wikipedia:WikiProject Soap Operas. However, it might well be a good idea to list them as "daughter" projects on the project page and at least make mention of the Featured articles and Good articles they have produced. It is always possible that one or more of those projects might fade to inactivity and then this project would be able to step in and at least manage the preexisting articles. Just a thought, of course. Badbilltucker 19:38, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

The project covers ALL BBC related articles as it has done from the start. Unisouth 07:49, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BBC One Scotland

I proposed the merge yesterday of this article into BBC Scotland, for the reasons explained on Talk:BBC One Scotland. I'd like your opinions please. - Lee Stanley 20:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Merge it into BBC One and mention it at BBC Scotland. BBC One Scotland, Alba and NI are so very much the same as BBC One English Regions as to have very little encyclopedic reasons for standing apart. There's a very good argument to be made for BBC One Wales being a separate article (the schedule is noticeably semi-independent and the channel - as BBC Wales - has a history dating back to the mid-60s) but Sc, Alba and NI are just variations on a theme. Separate articles for them are just fancruft. ➨ ЯEDVERS 20:36, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

You meant BBC 2W, not BBC One Wales, right? - Lee Stanley 20:54, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

No, I meant BBC One Wales (formerly BBC Wales on One, formerly BBC Wales). ➨ ЯEDVERS 21:13, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

See, I could argue fancruft there too because you're Welsh. We don't have a BBC One Wales article either, but you're not suggesting we create an article for every national variation of BBC One and BBC Two... - Lee Stanley 03:44, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Since ITV has an article for each of its sectors, shouldn't BBC have them to? Unisouth 07:49, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

ITV is a group of television companies that have gradually almost completely coalesced into one over 50 years.

The BBC is a national broadcaster that has arbitrary regional distinctions that have come and gone over 70 years.

In that time, the BBC has been made up of only two entities (the Company and the Corporation), both with the same policies. ITV has had, oh, 27, 28 different entities as part of it.

Those entities all have very good reasons for existing as Wikipedia articles as they all have unique and notable histories of their own, with unique and notable people working for them.

BBC One Scotland is a regional variation of BBC One (UK). We no more need an article on BBC One Scotland than we need two articles for ABC Weekend TV from Manchester and ABC Weekend TV from Birmingham - another case of regional variation, not complete difference. If that's too obscure, imagine articles on Central South, Central East, Central West, Anglia East, Anglia West, Tyne Tees South etc... ugh.

What would we write in articles about BBC One Midlands, BBC One East, BBC One Midlands and East, BBC One East, BBC One Midlands, BBC One East Midlands, BBC One West Midlands, BBC One Oxford...? This is just one variation of BBC One, requiring 8 articles at least to say what one paragraph in BBC One could cover.

Nah, I'm sorry, but there's often a fine line between comprehensive coverage and fancruft. And there's also more often a bloody great gulf between a single-sentence article and a single sentence in an article. We do our readers no service at all by fancrufting one reasonable article into dozens of tiny ones. ➨ ЯEDVERS 19:12, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you completely on your final point there, Redvers. - Lee Stanley 19:51, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

It is difficult to compare BBC One Midlands (or any other of the English regions) with BBC One Scotland. One is very much BBC One, whereas the other has considerable programming and technical distinctions 86.132.235.34 21:05, 19 October 2006 (UTC) 22:05, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

And I agree with that too. But all these debates all on different talk pages is getting confusing and now it appears people are moving and redirecting stuff willy-nilly... I give up, and a mess it can stay. (I'm actually quite tempted just to delete anything related to BBC One, BBC Scotland and BBC One Scotland so you could all start again but I'd probably get a ban for that). - Lee Stanley 21:08, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Islands

The above seems to have become a Scotland v The Rest debate, so I hope the following helps:

The difference between Scotland, Wales, & NI and the rest, is probably best understood by the fact that the first three are nations with their own programming, and sometimes their own language. Output has increased over the years, trouble is - no dedicated channel to put it on - so they now end up "time shifting" some of the networked programmes coming up the pipe from London to accommodate their own within the BBC1/BBC2 transmission structure.

The other UK TV regions of the BBC grew as a response to the opening of ITV in the mid 1950's - midlands, north, west, etc. - and were fairly large, and based around the existing regional radio structure. They were capable of producing TV (and radio) programmes for the network as well as daily regional "opt-outs" of local TV news programmes for their own area.

In the late sixties/early seventies - partly as an introduction of colour which had generated more income (and led to new premises for Birmingham and Manchester) - they (plus Bristol) were designated as Network Production Centres (NPC) and the rest, which only produced local "opt-outs" became Island Sites in BBC parlance (Southampton, Plymouth, Norwich, Newcastle plus the newly created Leeds).

In recent years - just like an amoeba - all these have further divided to produce even more regional output, and most of these regional variants are now put back down the pipe and up-linked to Freesat! Hence, wherever you are in the country you can now tune your dish in to most of the Island Sites which only differ from BBC1 (which they rebroadcast) for around an hour a day of regional news plus the odd stand alone weekly programme of local interest, the best of which are sometimes given a network airing.

It's a paradox - ITV started as a regional structure, but in recent years, as individual companies are taken over has become less so - certainly in branding (ITV1) as regional identities are absorbed. The BBC has stolen it's clothes, producing output now on a micro-regional basis, having started as a national broadcaster.

Sorry, I've written far too much for a first attempt. Zir 17:17, 2 November 2006 (UTC) and clarified Zir 01:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BBC Logos

Trawling the BBC website today, I found: http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tvbranding/usage.shtml It's really meant for programme credits, but leads to links useful to this group. I'm making enquiries about using logos which are BBC copyright, in the meantime the old logo can be found here: Zir 20:18, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project Directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:

• User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2,
• User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory,
• User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States, (note: This page will be retitled to more accurately reflect its contents)
• User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory, and
• User:Badbilltucker/Science directory

and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 21:53, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now put the new draft in the old directory pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you. B2T2 00:38, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Lost BBC episodes

I've just been having a look at Cat:Lost BBC episodes, and it seems to me that Cat:Doctor Who missing episodes (or Cat:Lost Doctor Who episodes) would be a useful subcategory for it and for Cat:Doctor Who. I'd have gone ahead and made one straight off, but thought I'd defer to people involved in the articles in question. I've had no adverse comments to this proposal at the Who WikiProject. The naming's a bit tricky though - my first suggestion is in line with the Featured Article, but the second is more in line with the parent category. Any thoughts? If there's no adverse comments here, I'll go ahead with this in a couple of days. Grutness...wha? 23:16, 30 October 2006 (UTC)