Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Armenia

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Contents 1 Awesome! 2 Adopt an Article 3 Cool 4 Topics 5 Translations 6 I thought you Guys could use this 7 Alphabet 8 Deletion-sorting page 9 Abdul Hamid II 10 Take a look at the role of Armenia in a war a US-Iran War 11 Armenians in Latin America 12 Armenian in Wikipedia 13 Anyone can contribute? 14 Project directory 15 Poll on Armenian flag and coat of arms 15.1 The flag 15.2 The coat of arms 16 Web Link Hub & Spokes 17 Outreach Effort 18 Armenian Economy Articles to be Merged 19 Latin Transliteration 20 Armenian SSR flag and coat of arms poll 21 Some Armenian villages in Iraq 22 Haghartsin 23 Cities and towns in Armenia (box) 24 Armeniapedia 25 Norshirakan and Persarmenia - same region?

[edit] Awesome!

Good going, folks. It is a big task, but an ideal way to focus attention on Armenian related articles and subjects that are not yet well developed. --RaffiKojian 01:51, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm guessing you would like to be a participant, so I took the liberty of adding your name to the list.--Moosh88 02:08, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adopt an Article

Please decide to "adopt an article", this basically means that you will be researching and adding the majority of the info to your adopted article.--Moosh88 02:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cool

Hi! This is a great idea, will add templates. I will start working on an article on the Armenian kingdom of Gardaman-Parisos in a little bit. I gues this would be my article ...

Hetoum

I added you to the list of Participants, Hetoum. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me on my talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Moosh88 --Moosh88 04:39, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Topics

Some more relevant articles:

• Turkish-Armenian War
• Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline
• Accession of Turkey to the European Union
• Human rights in Turkey
• Southeastern Anatolia Project
• Foreign relations of the Republic of Turkey
• Ilisu Dam Campaign
• Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia
• Treaty of Sevres
• Caucasus Campaign
• First Republic of Armenia

[edit] Translations

Hello. I have a suggestion four you. What about add to task table a string "Translation" and write there articles from other wikis to translate into english? For exemple, there are some quite a good articles about cities and rivers of Armenia in russian wiki such as ru:Иджеван, ru:Арпа (река), ru:Агарак... I know that some users of this project understand russian. I want to ask you if you are interested in this idea? --FHen^(ru) 18:26, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that's a great idea. What you propose should be incorporated under To be created.--Eupator 19:03, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not shure if such incorporation is the best way. I suggest to translate also a articles, that have already been created, such as Ijevan (ru:Иджеван), Hrazdan (ru:Раздан (река)). May be it will be better to create a separate table like this--FHen^(ru) 19:45, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

English	Russian	Deutsch
Cities and towns
Ijevan	ru:Иджеван	...
Agarak	ru:Агарак	...
Stepanavan	ru:Степанаван	...
Goris	ru:Горис	...
Meghri	ru:Мегри	...
Rivers
Hrazdan River	ru:Раздан(река)	...
Voghdji	ru:Вохчи(река)	...
Vorotan	ru:Воротан(река)	...
Aghstev	ru:Агстев(река)	...
Arpa (river)	ru:Арпа(река)	...
Diaspora
Armenians in Europe	...	de:Armenier in Europa

Yes you're right; however, we should only include articles that are signifcantly better or longer than their English counterparts (if one exists). For example Zvartnots should not be included.--Eupator 19:59, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I tryed to move this table to project page, but had a problem: links to iwikis are seen only on talk pages. --FHen^(ru) 16:20, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

prefix it with a colon like so: [[:ru:foobar]] ru:foobar

[edit] I thought you Guys could use this

[[1]]

Meanwhile, it was the father of the present Azeri president, Haydar Aliyev, who first said that “Karabakh is lost for us.” On July 22, 2002, while receiving the founders of the Baku Press-Club in his palace, Aliyev made a number of avowals. The full text of Aliyev’s interview was published by Zerkalo daily on July 23, 2002. In particular, Aliyev said that as the first secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the USSR “he did much to help Nagorno Karabakh to develop, but, at the same time, he tried to change the local demography.” “Nagorno Karabakh asked for an institute. I decided to open one, but on condition that it would have three sectors – Azeri, Russian and Armenia. We opened the institute and began sending Azeris from nearby districts there rather than to Baku. We also opened a big shoe factory. Stepanakert had no sufficient labor force, so we began sending there Azeris from places around the region. By doing this I tried to increase the number of Azeris and to reduce the number of Armenians,” Aliyev said. He also noted that “when I left Azerbaijan, the situation there got worse – Armenia’s influence grew bigger, and our authorities did nothing and missed the moment.” “When in Feb 1991 I was elected deputy from Naxcivan and came to Baku and said in the parliament that Nagorno Karabakh was already lost,” Haydar Aliyev said. Returning to our topic, let’s try to describe the consequences the war in Iran may have for Armenia. The armed crisis in Iran, the preventive strikes on or the military invasion of the US and the “accomplice-countries” in that country and the possible consequences this may have for Armenia are a question that can knock out any Armenian politician. They in Armenia have no answer to this question – they just well realize how serious this threat is. The possibility of a US-Azeri or any other conspiracy over the Karabakh-Iranian problem as a whole is an even bigger trap for the Armenians. We can hardly imagine them to rule out this possibility at all. The region is too small, and there is just one step from Iran (and, most importantly, from its regions where the ethnic Azeri majority is several times bigger than the whole population of Armenia) to Karabakh. Yes, it’s not calm in Armenia, and not only because of the daily shuttle visits of US politicians and diplomats. In fact, any destabilization will reveal the real balance of forces in the region and will blow up the whole foreign political doctrine of Armenia. The country will have to instantly choose which camp to join. The situation is going beyond short-term predictability, which means the end of the epoch of complimentarity – a wait-and-see policy, a policy of balance between the interests of macro-players.

Yerevan seems to have already taken the first steps in this direction… not without Moscow. In the chronology we give in the preamble shows that after the usual OSCE MG format broke up and the Russian co-chair went into the shadow, it was only the Armenian FM that visited Moscow. But this was overshadowed by an unprecedented meeting of the Russian ambassadors to Georgia, Azerbaijan and Turkey and Russian Deputy FM Grigory Karasin in Yerevan. Even in calmer times such a meeting would look intriguing. The N1 topic before and after the military exercises in Nagorno Karabakh was the Armenian-Russian military cooperation. Apr 19 the chief of the general staff of Armenia’s armed forces Mikayel Haroutyunyan said that “Armenia and Russia should conduct joint exercises more frequently and should involve the Karabakh armed forces therein.” In the meantime, Armenian Defense Serzh Sargsyan said in an interview to Krasnaya Zvezda newspaper that Armenia would welcome the training of Russian military students in highland conditions.

Is a local war in Karabakh possible? It is — as war is still regarded as one of the possible ways to resolve the dragging conflict. But who will it benefit? The benefits are many, but they depend on what the beneficiaries want. Let’s consider some of the possible scenarios: The US involves Azerbaijan in a local war with Armenia and deploys its military bases in the Azeri territory to protect its oil-gas interests and, at the same time, pressures on Iran from the north. This scenario fits well into the US’ strategic plan of Iran’s military-political encirclement.

I am from the Azari Wiki Project and both a Iranian and Azari. I know I am an ethnic Iranian and not a Turkic as fake party line in Baku cliams. The Baku government has even killed Azari scholars who have taught that Azaris are really ethnically non-Turkic. We are reallly an Iranian people related to the Armenians and I hope their is peace for everyone in the region. 72.57.230.179

[edit] Alphabet

I've redone the alphabet table in Armenian_alphabet. An Armenian speaker should add in the IPA-values, as I meself don't speak a word Armenian. The German and Italian pages might help there (see interwikilinks on the Armenian alphabet page). ActiveSelective 06:18, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion-sorting page

Hello,

I just wanted to let you know that Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting is being provisionally reactivated, and that you can find current deletion debates related to Armenia at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Armenia. At this writing, there's only one debate listed; if you know of others, please feel free to add them. -- Visviva 10:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abdul Hamid II

Fellow Armenians, there is an anonymous vandal who keeps removing a part of Abdul Hamid's page where it states about the hamidian massacres, and about the reforms Armenians demanded...we should pay attention -- Fedayee 22 September 2006

[edit] Take a look at the role of Armenia in a war a US-Iran War

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=NAZ20061001&articleId=3361

[edit] Armenians in Latin America

I can write about the argentino-armenian relations, i know we are so far from homelands, but the armenian spirit still remains!

I know I have some family in Argentina. We went anywhere we could find safety in after the Genocide. -- Augustgrahl 03:17, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Armenian in Wikipedia

A guideline on whether or not to italicize Armenian (and all scripts other than Latin) is being debated at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (text formatting)#Italics in Cyrillic and Greek characters. - - Evv 17:00, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anyone can contribute?

Not according to Eupator and Clevlander, they teamed up to delete my name, I have made many positive contributions to this project and do not appreciate being deleted.--Caligvla 03:41, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, this deserves an explanation. -- Augustgrahl 03:52, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Caligvla's contributions have not been positive for Wikipedia. Instead, they have been offensive towards Armenians. -- Clevelander 11:35, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

True, his contributions to the Armenia article are questionable and his userpage emphatically states that he will never travel to Armenia. -- Augustgrahl 15:09, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Your motives are dubious when your userpage clearly states contempt for Armenia. It would seem that you are using Wikipedia to push a personal and potentially offensive agenda, which is contrary to the spirit of the encyclopedia. Your past edits have been disruptive, rather than constructive, to the aims of Wikiproject Armenia. -- Augustgrahl 14:00, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

• • • Does that change the fact that "Participation in WikiProject Armenia is not limited to anyone"?

I mean no ill will, so please assume good intent, I am trying to help wiki reach academic standards.--Caligvla 07:07, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

So can I please be added back in? thanks...--Caligvla 05:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

No, you are not welcome here.--Eupator 12:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 15:07, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poll on Armenian flag and coat of arms

I was wondering if we should change the colors of the Armenian flag and CoA. See below for arguments. -- Clevelander 19:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The flag

The colors of the Armenian flag as presently featured on Wikipedia are directly reflected by those that appear on the Armenian government, Flags of the World, and Armenica websites. However, on the CIA World Factbook, Vector Images, and FIFA websites, the colors appear more faded. Vote change to change the flag to the CIA/Vector/FIFA colors or vote keep to keep the colors as they are.

• Keep -- Clevelander 19:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep--Eupator 19:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
• Change - The problem came up when I was trying to state what the HTML codes for the colors are, in the Flag of Armenia article. I noticed that in every site the colors look different. Let's take blue color, for example, Wikipedia's flag shows #0000AA, Gov't's flag shows #0000D6, FOTW shows #000099, CIA shows #3B5AA3. However, I remember people were saying in Armenia that the colors on the flag are the colors Martiros Saryan loved to use, which were faded. So the colors that CIA or FIFA uses look more Saryan-like than the one at Wikipedia. I really believe that the colors on this image look as close to Saryan's colors as possible.--Crzycheetah 19:53, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Take a look at the flag at Armenian embassy in Washington DC. The blue and orange look like they are worn out, but they are the real colors of the Republic of Armenia.--Crzycheetah 22:08, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

• Keep -- Fedayee 20:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep -- Augustgrahl 20:16, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
• No Preference at this Time It should be possible to find out if the nation assigned Universal Color Codes to the national colors. If so, then it's a simple, indiusputable matter to pick the correct color. Regardless, this is a de minimus issue. - Gregkar 19:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The coat of arms

The Armenian coat of arms as presently featured on Wikipedia comes from Vector Images. This same version is used on Armenica's website. However, the coat of arms as featured on the Armenian government's website shows a slightly different color pattern with the red and blue parts of the shield switched. Vote change to change the CoA to reflect the version from the Armenian government's website or vote keep to keep the CoA as it stands.

• Change -- Clevelander 19:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
• Keep--Eupator 19:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
• Change - The Gov't website states The law "On the State Coat of Arms of the Republic of Armenia":

The colors of the kingdoms of the historical Armenia are as follows: from top to left - red, from top to right - blue, from bottom to left - blue, from bottom to right - red, with orange-painted Mount Ararat positioned in the center on a shield."

I think we need to have the right Coat of Arms, not the one that looks nicer.--Crzycheetah 20:00, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

• Keep -- Fedayee 20:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
• Change - and add a redesign to the todo list... --RaffiKojian 08:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
• No Preference at this Time - Gregkar 18:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I decided that it should be changed once and for all. I think this'll work better. -- Clevelander 18:57, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Web Link Hub & Spokes

Greetings Ladies & Gentlemen! Is there a standard box of text we can attach to other pages linking back to Project Armenia? I mean something along the lines of what has been done in other project: "This article is part of the Wiki Project Armenia...." If not, should we create it?

Great job so far! Keep up the good work!

Gregkar 22:33, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

It already exists. See the talk pages of the articles. Did you miss this in the project page:Wikipedia:WikiProject Armenia#Project notice ?--Eupator 00:13, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Outreach Effort

I think we would benefit from reaching out to other branches of the academic and Armenian community instead of hoping they stumble upon us by accident and decide to contribute (like in my case). I propose reaching out to Armenians because they will be highly motivated, having a personal interest in the project. I suggest reaching out to the academic community so that we can benefit from a rigourous, academic level peer review of our work and to benefit from HIGHLY knowledgable contributors and scholars. Objectivity, credibility, and unimpeachability are important objective to attain. I have already spread a few bread crumbs around at the Myspace forums. Gregkar 19:44, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds fishy. I would't have thought a thing, but MySpace?--Eupator 20:41, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Fishy? Outreach cannot hurt or am I missing the obvious? Why Myspace? Only because it happens to be a central location for English speaking people of Armenian descent. A good many of the people there are students at CSUN, UCLA, UCSB, UCSD, and UCR. I don't suggest that as the exclusive recruiting ground, only as one of potentially hundreds. Gregkar 21:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if Myspace is the best recruiting ground for potential motivated editors. -- Augustgrahl 20:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I concur. Read my reply to Eupator supra. Myspace is not necessarily the happy hunting ground for academics, but there are a good many Armenian-Americans students there. It doesn't have to be perfect. It only has to be progress. There are enough people already ensconced here who can do clean up and editorial work if we have a good crew of workers who can generate the raw work product in the first place. And finally, it couldn't hurt to do some soft advertisement of Armenian culture and our cause among non-Armenians. The more awareness there is, the more people will put a "human face" on the word "Armenian;" ergo, the greater the likelyhood that genocide recognition will reach political critical mass and start move as an agenda in the world community. But I digress. I don't wish to steer the conversation off topic. My main objective is to identify and recruit people who can flesh our the articles that need to be created for the project. Gregkar 21:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Armenian Economy Articles to be Merged

Gentlemen and ladies, yesterday I came across another article on the Armenian national economy and I proposed that we merge the two together. The other article is outdated, but much more comprehensive. Merging the two would be a real time saver and brings a quality product to fruition faster. Gregkar 14:30, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. I say that the Agriculture in Armenia and Armenian Stock Exchange articles should be created as separate (other countries have individual articles on their argiculture and their stock exchange - so why not Armenia?) -- Clevelander 23:13, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I wasn't proposing eliminating agriculture and the armex. I was proposing merging the two existing articles o nthe ECONOMY. The other articles can certainly be drafted and posted and linked up with the general article on the economy. I'll do more when i have more free time. Gregkar 21:48, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Latin Transliteration

Could anybody do this? Luka Jačov 18:08, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Of what?--Eupator 15:18, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Well many or maybe all of the Armenian related articles have original Armenian name but without latin transliteration (Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic). Luka Jačov 17:32, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I added translit. for ASSR, anything else in mind? Maybe you can compile a list and it to the project?--Eupator 18:12, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Armenian SSR flag and coat of arms poll

A poll: should we change Image:Flag of Armenian SSR.svg and Image:COA Armenian SSR.png to Image:SovietArmenian flag.jpg and Image:Armenian COA.jpg respectively? Vote change to change the flag and CoA or vote keep to keep things as they are.

• Keep -- Clevelander 19:18, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
• Delete and replace them with the ones I uploaded directly from the SA Encyclopedia. Things like this are the least of my concerns but the SVG flag's colors are inaccurate and cartoonish. They are akin to having the American flag with red, white, and green colors. Moreover, the COA's colors display the real colors of grapes that we all hopefully eat - the green and not the yellow kind. The ones from the encyclopedia have a more authentic feel to them. Perhaps this "consistency" that they be svg format be reconsidered but we shouldn't forgo realism here.--MarshallBagramyan 19:41, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Are we both looking at the same flag? The SA Encyclopedia version looks just like the SVG version (of course, the scanned flag looks a bit darker and grainy - but that's expected from a scan). The consistency of using SVG flags is something that Wikipedia has been long-striving to achieve (almost all flags on Wikipedia are now in SVG format and if not PNG format). I really don't see how SVG flags "forge realism." The grapes on the coat of arms from the SA Encyclopedia are shown in the same color as the grain and the hammer and sickle are (that is they're all supposed to be gold). This is accurately represented on the PNG CoA which is currently in use. -- Clevelander 00:14, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

The "darkness" of the uploaded flag is not a byproduct of a poor quality scanning;it is the true color of the Soviet Armenian flag - Communism heavily emphasized the color red and all but it wasn't such a bright red like the SVG file but a mixture of red and more pronounced, orange hue. I'm willing to let all this subside but I can easily change the formats to .png extensions but its one thing whenever the official encyclopedia shows something different to what's being used here.--MarshallBagramyan 05:02, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

If it's the tone of the current Armenian SSR flag that's the issue, then that can be changed. In fact, I'd be more than happy to fix the color myself later today (I'll admit, the red is a bit bright). Kindest regards, Clevelander 09:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - Darkening the current flag's colors is necessary. The coat of arms has to be changed. The one we currently have was used from 1940-1966, the one MarshallBagramyan uploaded was used from 1966-1991.Source in Russian--Crzycheetah 08:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some Armenian villages in Iraq

Hey guys, I thought these couple articles I wrote long time ago might interest you; Avzrog and Dehi. It would be nice if any of you living in Armenia could visit Verin Dvin, Arzni or Dmitrov in the Ararat district and try to write an article about the Assyrian population their (with pictures of course ;) ) Chaldean 08:26, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Haghartsin

I have created the Haghartsin article, which is close to being finished text wise on my behalf. If you have any information you can add, and can help to wikify/clean up, that would be great. I will add some photos tomorrow. Also any "Did you know" suggestions would be nice. Thanks! --RaffiKojian 13:14, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cities and towns in Armenia (box)

Can someone fix the "Cities and towns in Armenia" (box). This is the box that is under all the cities of Armenia. On the box for the town of "Verdi" when I click on it it redirects me to somewhere else and when I click on the "Masis" city it redirects me to Mount. Ararat, but not the city of Masis. One more thing on the box of "Cities and towns in Armenia" "Martuni is under Armenian cities, but it is part of Nagorno-Karabakh district, It should be takne out. I tried to fix it, but I didn't know how. Thanks. ROOB323 23:15, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. -- Clevelander 00:47, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks ROOB323 00:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Armeniapedia

The Armeniapedia page is currently liable to be speedily deleted under WP:CSD A7, since it makes no attempt at establishing the notability of this website. I plan to delete it later today, this is just a courtesy notification, as it's been marked as belonging to you guys' wikiproject, in case anybody wants to improve and save it. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:27, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Norshirakan and Persarmenia - same region?

Note: In the Template:Historical regions of Armenia, there are two different links (Norshirakan and Persarmenia) that, I believe, relate to the same historical province. Can someone confirm this and take appropriate actions? I'd suggest to redirect Norshirakan to Persarmenia.--Crzycheetah 00:00, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

They seem to be the same thing but odds are Norshirakan has different borders and a different history, I mean what's the history of that name? Where did it come from? There must be some sort of a difference between Parskahayq and Norshirakan. My guess is that Norshirakan is the name of the territory of Parskahayq after the demise of Greater Amenia in 428?--Eupator 02:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)