Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anti-war

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Contents 1 Archive 2 Historical bias 3 War of 1812 4 A. J. Muste 5 Category:Anti Iraq war people up for deletion. 6 Women Strike for Peace 7 Suppression of Angolan War opposition 8 Creating a "Peace Theory" project 9 High-visibility pages needing expansion 10 Template:Anti-war topics up for deletion 11 Category:Anti Iraq war people up for deletion again. 12 Peer review 13 Template: Anti-warTasks 14 Peace Poles 15 Category:Anti-war films 16 Chants and slogans up for deletion 17 Resisters and dodgers 18 Opposition to war against Iran 19 Project directory 20 Stablepedia 21 Use of Anti-war template on Conscientious objector article

[edit] Archive

• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anti-war/Archive1:17 August 2005 - 27 March 2006

[edit] Historical bias

At the moment the articles are biased quite hevely towards present or recent anti-war movments, we need to work on more historical articles to address this. As a start I have created Opposition to the Second Boer War, I also hope to create Opposition to the First World War soon. --JK the unwise 22:56, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Opposition to the First World War would have to be somewhat more international, there was definatley opposition in France (people like Jean Jaures opposed French entry). I think what you might call the first 'anti-war' organisations in Britain sprung up around the Napoleonic Wars. Try James Hinton, Protests and Visions for a history of 20th century peace politics. Sjeraj 09:38, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I've also noticed a bias towards the modern. For instance the London Peace Society started in the early 1800s. I'm a novice so not sure how to add that article to this project.--Erp 01:26, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] War of 1812

I'm sure there's very little interest in this topic here, since it's an old and obscure war, but just in case anyone gets around to it, a good article on opposition in the United States to the War of 1812 should be written. Here's a quote from Donald R. Hickey's The War of 1812: A Forgotten Conflict (1989):

The War of 1812 was America's most unpopular war. It generated more intense opposition than any other war in the nation's history, including the war in Vietnam. (p. 255)

Historian Samuel Eliot Morrison argued the same thing in Dissent in Three American Wars (1970).

During the war, there were riots in Baltimore—not anti-war riots: the violence was directed at Federalist opponents of the war. A plan for conscription passed in the Senate, but failed in the House, thanks in part to opposition from Daniel Webster. National mythologies aside, militiamen in the United States and Canada generally wanted no part of the war. (The U.S. war effort arguably failed because many U.S. militiamen refused to invade Canada.) The Hartford Convention was organized to oppose the war, and even discussed the secession of New England from the United States. This opposition to the war paved the way for the demise of the Federalist Party (the party of George Washington and Alexander Hamilton).

U.S. domestic opposition to the wars in Vietnam and (especially) Iraq were minor compared to opposition to the War of 1812, so someone might want to write an article about it someday. A good basic source would be the entry "Antiwar Sentiment" in Encyclopedia of the War of 1812 (Heidler and Heidler, eds., 1997). --Kevin Myers | (complaint dept.) 13:59, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

It does sound interesting and more than worthy of an article. I'd like to read about it so I'll take it on sometime this week if I have time. Kalkin 19:09, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Done, mostly using the very handy if questionably ethical "Search Inside This Book" feature of Amazon.com on the Hickey book. Give it a rating if you've got a chance. Kalkin 19:25, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Well done! Just the kind of thing that this project needs to overcome the current bias towards recent events. keep up the good work.--JK the unwise 11:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll second that "well done!" Kalkin, if you do more work on the article, there's more to add, as well as some corrections. Opposition to the war actually generated more long-lasting peace organizations than you suggest. The New York Peace Society was formed as a result of the war; many others soon followed. There was also a huge anti-war rally in New York City in August 1812. And there's no mention of Caleb Strong in the article yet, the Governor of Massachusetts who refused to call out the militia to support the war effort, and even talked of Massachusetts making a separate peace with the British. --Kevin Myers | (complaint dept.) 00:27, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A. J. Muste

Hi,

I've just joined the project, and I've rated the article on A. J. Muste as needing expansion, something I hope to do something about after reading up on him a bit more. From what I understand he played a huge role in organizing the protests against the Vietnam War, and the article doesn't do that justice, as well as not explaining much about his views. I hope that's appropriate. Rafaelgr 19:20, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Anti Iraq war people up for deletion.

Category:Anti Iraq war people is being considered for deletion. Share your thoughts on the Categories for deletion page. JonHarder 02:19, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I've weighed in, again suggesting a rename over outright deletion. SchuminWeb (Talk) 02:53, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

This discussion was closed with no consensus. See the final discussion. JonHarder 20:15, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Women Strike for Peace

We have nothing on Women Strike for Peace. Very important organization in the 1960s peace movement, an amazing oversight. I'm a bit busy with other things right now. If no one gets there first, I'll do this eventually, but I'd love to see someone else get it started sooner. -- Jmabel | Talk 20:16, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suppression of Angolan War opposition

Hi guys, I can't tell you if I was a paid-up member or not, but I attended meetings of the End Conscription Campaign before it was banned in 1988. I've been trying to put a page up on Opposition to the Angolan War but its already been suppressed thanks to one of your members User:Schuminweb. What's the problem, don't you know that the US government backed a failed bid to overthrow a foreign country, and that hundreds of South African soldiers died defending liberal democracy against Cuban soldiers? Ethnopunk 12:05, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

If you look at the articles associated with the project, I think you'll find that we haven't been suppressing negative information about the US. The dispute here isn't political. I don't know much about the Angolan War but I would love for you to write an article on it. Feel free to use sources but you can't take text straight from them.

The opening of your article before deletion:

Angola achieved independence from Portugal on 11 November 1975 and by 29 February 1976 the last of the now long dormant colonial Portuguese forces had withdrawn. Cuban forces (acting as Russia's proxies in the cold-war) began to move into Angola in April 1975 to support the communist backed MPLA (people's liberation army) and to help them to gain power in the post-colonial power vacuum created by the Portuguese agreeing to leave Angola. South Africa faced the prospect of communist state bordering SWA, then a territory administered in terms of its mandate received after the first world War.

The opening of the fourth paragraph of this offsite article:

Angola achieved independence from Portugal on 11 November 1975 and by 29 February 1976 the last of the now long dormant colonial Portuguese forces had withdrawn. Cuban forces (acting as Russia's proxies in the cold-war) began to move into Angola in April 1975 to support the communist backed MPLA (people's liberation army) and to help them to gain power in the post-colonial power vacuum created by the Portuguese agreeing to leave Angola. Suddenly South Africa faced the prospect of communist state bordering SWA.

This is plagiarism by any definition, intentional or not. Kalkin 13:50, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Creating a "Peace Theory" project

Haven't settled on a name, but I shall possibly be starting a project arround peace and conflict resolution and want people's reactions from this project, as it is a very closely related subject. The aim of the project would not be to tread on this project's toes, but instead to develop content which can be used for Peace Education. I'm a Peace Studies student, and an anti-War campaigner, and well aware of the difference between the two areas, so I hope they can be kept separate. What do people think?

--Graham Martin 03:36, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

It's an interesting idea, and I'd like to see you bring it to fruition. Suggested name: WikiProject Peace (also how I'll refer to it from here on). What I'm interested in, though, is seeing more about where the line is drawn between this project and your proposed project. I see this new project as being a parallel project to this one, forked out of it. I personally am less interested in the theoretical aspects of such things as I am in actual events and such (and I have participated in some of the actions listed in the project). Others are possibly the other way around. It could certainly bring more focus on what is admittedly a very broad WikiProject.

In thinking about it, I'd be inclined to divide it this way: Articles on peace in a theoretical sense would fall under WikiProject Peace. Thus you have such articles as Satyagraha, Peace through strength, Turn the other cheek, World peace, etc. that would fall under that umbrella. Then you have articles about real-world people, organizations, and events, such as A.N.S.W.E.R., Peace Action, Cindy Sheehan, September 24, 2005 anti-war protest, Protests against the Vietnam War, etc. under WikiProject Anti-war.

I still imagine that there would be some gray area in between the two projects, where material could fall either way. I'm not ready to consider such a possibility at this point, but it is likely to come up.

Others' thoughts? SchuminWeb (Talk) 04:24, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Since this project is not all that active the idea of spliting stuff off to another project might not be the best idea as it might reduce involvement further. Also I am a little bit worried about the way you have presented the project ... it sounds like it might have NPOV problems to me. Remeber Wikipedia projects are not allowed to be used to advocate anything neither peace nor fascism.--JK the unwise 08:09, 11 May 2006 (UTC)--JK the unwise 08:09, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Regarding NPOV, I really don't see it as having an issue there. I consider such a project on par with this project as NPOV goes. It's a fine line to walk so that you can write about anti-war (or peace) topics, and not be seen as POV-pushing. SchuminWeb (Talk) 11:21, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] High-visibility pages needing expansion

• I've just added a section to the article war for a discussion of prevention of an alternatives to war, since there is currently zero content of that type in the article, and it seems like relevant information. I thought perhaps people checking this page would have some knowledge on the subject which they could contribute. -- Beland 21:36, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
• Portal:War could also use some rounding out. There's a request for suggestions on the talk page there. -- Beland 21:58, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Anti-war topics up for deletion

Template:Anti-war topics is up for deletion. Please weigh in on the discussion. Thanks! SchuminWeb (Talk) 23:06, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Result was keep, see Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2006 May 20.--JK the unwise 09:40, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Anti Iraq war people up for deletion again.

Category:Anti Iraq war people is being considered for deletion. Share your thoughts on the Categories for deletion page. JonHarder 13:53, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peer review

Wikipedia:Peer review/February 15, 2003 anti-war protest. Please add your comments. --JK the unwise 14:34, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Template: Anti-warTasks

There is a debate on Template talk:Anti-warTasks about whether to have the peace flag or the CND peace symbol. The peace flag image (Image:PACE-flag.svg) seems to have been deleted, I can't find out why or were. Please join the debate.--JK the unwise 09:00, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peace Poles

The article on Peace Poles defines them narrowly and ignores the traditions of other countries. How could I suggest improvements to that page? Sighalot 16:05, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The best place for you to bring up problems with the article is probally on the talk page of the article but hopefully some people from this project may be able to help.

I don't know anything much about peace poles myself but what I would suggest that you look for some texts that talk about the traditions that you feel arn't covered by the article, they can be on-line (try google) or on paper (try your local library). Then be bold and add the information; adding referances to the texts that you use.--JK the unwise 10:08, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I didn't see any discussion about them, but I'm new and was worried I wasn't looking in the right place. I'm an expert on peace poles. I make them for a living and have web pages about them. It sounds as though there might not be an objection to my editing the page and I should try it. Thanks. Sighalot 21:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Anti-war films

Category:Anti-war films is a subcategory of Category:War films—fine. Fahrenheit 9/11 is in Category:Anti-war films—okay. Category:War films is a subcategory of Category:Drama films—alright. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a documentary—uh oh. Jonathan F 06:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Considering that Category:Anti-war films and Category:War films and Category:Drama films all are individually listed in Category:Films by genre, I felt comfortable going in and removing "war films" from the "drama" category, saying in my edit description that not all war films are dramas. So that ought to fix the Fahrenheit 9/11 problem. If you see anything else, let me know. SchuminWeb (Talk) 09:20, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chants and slogans up for deletion

List of slogans and chants opposing the Iraq War is up for deletion. Kalkin 00:00, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Resisters and dodgers

Though your article on "draft dodging" mentions civil disobedience, it is heavily slanted toward discussing draft "dodging." You go on at great length about those who went to Canada during Vietnam but ignore the great numbers of people who did time in federal prison to protest the draft. As a former draft resister, I am rather bothered that the subject is addressed under "draft dodger." That's like discussing feminists under "bra burners." (I added a paragraph, but more needs to be said.) cliforeman (foreman@covenant.edu) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cliforeman (talk • contribs) 11 August 2006.

I would suggest that an article draft resistance would be in order. - Jmabel | Talk 21:38, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd agree. It seems that the two are for the most part different concepts. SchuminWeb (Talk) 23:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I see. That is a redirect to draft dodger. I agree with Cliforeman that that is inappropriate. - Jmabel | Talk 21:39, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Opposition to war against Iran

i started the article Opposition to war against Iran. Whether or not there will or will not be a US+UK war against Iran is a matter of speculation, not NPOV fact, though there are several people claiming that the war has already started. In any case, it seems to me undeniable that protests against a war against Iran definitely have started, so it's a good time to start documenting them as part of NPOV knowledge. i'm not totally sure if we should have a title like "opposition to would-be war against Iran" or "opposition to threats to attack Iran", but i do feel that "opposition to Iran War" (modelled after the Iraq article) would constitute a claim that the war has already started, while in fact it's not (yet) widely accepted as having started. Boud 22:52, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

IMHO there probably is a lot of info out there in the web on actions already taken against a war on Iran - so i'm sure there's plenty missing. Boud 22:53, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 22:07, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stablepedia

Beginning cross-post.

See Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team#Stablepedia. If you wish to comment, please comment there. ★MESSEDROCKER★ 03:19, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

End cross-post. Please do not comment more in this section.

[edit] Use of Anti-war template on Conscientious objector article

There has been an ongoing disagreement about using the Anti-war template in the Conscientious objector article. Editors who think it may or may not be appropriate for that article are invited to share their thoughts. See Talk:Conscientious objector#Anti-war template. JonHarder 22:50, 5 December 2006 (UTC)