Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga

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See also: Other recent discussions in WikiProject Anime and manga articles

[edit] Cosmic Era article series facing deletion

Here there is a blanket AfD for probably a good 50-100 Cosmic Era articles. I have objected to this out of principle, saying that one cannot nominate 50 different articles without explaining specifically how each one violates a Wikipedia policy. If this is passed as a delete, it might not bode well for future anime articles. — Dark Shikari talk/contribs 11:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Clear case of an m:don't be a dick violation by the original poster. Those gundam articles are one of the reasons I started editting here, removing them reduces wikipedia. Kyaa the Catlord 12:22, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Hey, there's a Wikiproject related directly to these articles. I bet they'll be surprised. :P Kyaa the Catlord 13:10, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
They aren't active though. At least, I thought the project was shut down. Anyways, see also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cosmic Era vehicles‎.--SeizureDog 13:11, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
For some reason, the linking doesn't seem to work. Not sure why either.--SeizureDog 13:14, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I really think it is overstating the case by implying that if these articles are deleted, other anime articles will be deleted. This particular lot of articles are horrible quality and are in dire need of clean-up. Someone went way overboard with creating entries for every minor character and machine in the series. If they're not deleted (I see one big no-consensus result for the lot) they'll all need to be trimmed substantially and merged and redirected where necessary. We'll also need some non-primary references for the entire group. I wish the nominating editor had listed all of them separately ans conducted his deletion debate in a more civil manner. Finally, because someone is a fan of a certain series doesn't mean that that article deserves to be in Wikipedia. This detailed fan stuff is more suited to Wikibooks, as the Harry Potter fans have shown us with the Guide to Harry Potter. --Kunzite 19:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
The gundam articles are mostly just fancruft, and can be merged / trimmed to a hand full of pages and do a lot better job. -- Ned Scott 21:08, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
If there's an easy way/tool/bot to go through and nominate multiple articles for deletion I'd like to know it. Because it could talk half a day for one person to go through and list each Gundam article that needs trimming one by one. I tried by best to make it clear that I wanted people to vote on the articles seperately and not together in my nomination. In a sense, it's the same thing, just less hassle for the nominator.--SeizureDog 13:25, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Help with kanji/romaji names

I am unable to vizualise kanjis for technical reasons beyond my hability, and would be eternally grateful if someone could help me with the simple task of adding the kanki and romanisation for the names in the character section of Serial Experiments Lain where it is still missing. I believe that's only Taro, Miu Miu, their friend, the Office Worker, and the two MiBs. Thanks for your time!--SidiLemine 12:38, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

You seem to be missing a Miho Iwakura, Reika Yamamoto, Yuri Katō, and Chisa Yomoda. At least, they're listed on the Japanese article. --SeizureDog 13:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
They all seemed like very secondary to me. Miho says two sentences in the whole series, Yuri and Reika are only Alice's supporting crew, and I'm pretty sure Chisa doesn't acheive 15 mn of screen time. Actually, I still have doubts about Taro and the Office Worker, but they play key roles in the plot developpement so I thought it was best to include them.--SidiLemine 15:07, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Can someone offer a little feedback on edits

I've done a bit of edit to Sentou Yousei Yukikaze, and Submarine 707R. I know the latter isn't finished, but it at least has SOMETHING in there now.

--Kschang77 00:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Sentou Yousei Yukikaze needs wikifying. Remember that wikipedia is an encyclopedia, it should explain things in an Out-of-universe perspective and should not contain rhetorical questions (for example: "Was it just a mirage, a sign that he's still out there, or was it really him?"). --Squilibob 12:55, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Things related to anime that we need articles for.

  • Idol club - Those crazy clubs based around a certain hot girl at school.
  • PVC model / PVC figure - A type of model that anime characters often come in. Can end up being really expensive too. There are similar articles that almost seem to be good choices to redirect too, but none seem to actually be quite right.
  • One coin - Small anime figures that randomly come in sealed boxes that you can buy with one coin. Similar to gashapon.
  • Character album - Albums where the voice actors sing songs in-character.
  • Japanese school swimsuit - Those blue, one-piece things seem to have a pretty big fetish around it. I can't figure out why either.
  • Speed lines - The half-assed way of drawing motion.
  • Bloomers needs an image of the kind of bloomers we've grown to know from anime. If someone clicks on a link of bloomers from an anime article for some reason they're going to be grossly misled as to what we're talking about.

I'm sure there are more that need to be done. We need to be sure that all cultural references that pop up in any have at least stubs. I would make them, but I'm hoping someone else knows more about these than me.--SeizureDog 18:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Image album already has an (extremely small) section on character albums that could be used as a start. — Dark Shikari talk/contribs 10:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Hmm. Image album looks like something that needs to be merged into something else. It seems that most "soundtracks" in the West these days are actually just Music Inspired by The Lord of the Rings with songs that never even appeared in what they're supposed to be soundtracks for, which is what it seems like an image album is (in the case of the album I'm referring to, it was songs inspired by the book). Furthermore, I've not seen the term "image album" used and it seems pretty misleading, plus no Japanese trans-wiki link to help verify it. Dunno what to do with that. --SeizureDog 13:20, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
      • Check here for an example. Image albums are a very specific category of album. — Dark Shikari talk/contribs 11:24, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
      • Do we have an article about those summer sport shorts they have (bulma or something like that?)--SidiLemine 13:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
      • Closest we got is Bloomers (clothing). And like I said before, that article is totally misleading if we link to it in our articles. --SeizureDog 14:16, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
        • Gosh, you're right. It is not the same thing. This is what Minnie Mouse used to wear. Not anime cuties.

[edit] Need help with fanboys at Negima!: Magister Negi Magi

In trying to enforce Wiki-policy, I keep kinding myself getting reverted on this page. The problems:

  1. Someone seems to thing trivia such as "In volume 2, when 2-A is declared first place in the tests classification, a chibi version of Mitsune Konno (Kitsune) from Love Hina can be seen in a certain panel, throwing her tickets in the air, as she usually does when loses a bet." is, "notable".
  2. "Fuck" (as quoted in a review) keeps turning into "f***", a clear violation of Wikipedia is not censored.
  3. That's of course, when the review is actually in the article. The review is by The Comics Journal, a published magazine and thus one of the few creditable places we can find critical reviews. However, it's negative and fanboys don't like that :/

I'm about to revert all of this, but the page as they seem to want it can be seen here. I could use some support here. --SeizureDog 16:25, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Deppey described the series as creating "simultaneously ... wildly entertaining situations" and extremely disturbing ones. When in doubt, paraphrase? --HKMarks(T/C) 17:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I've added my two cents. Note that if this fails to produce consensus, the next step in the dispute resolution process is to open up a case at ArbCom. --RoninBKETC 23:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
You sure this is bad enough that mediation needs to be skipped? NeoChaosX (he shoots, he scores!) 00:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
According to Wikipedia:Resolving disputes, asking for mediation at a WikiProject satisfies the mediation step --RoninBKETC 00:28, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TV WikiProject needs your help!

There's some discussion at WT:TV#Infoboxes on articles covering multiple media, where I suggested looking at our animanga infoboxes as a solution to shows with lots of different media (TV, movies, games, etc). I thought I'd make a note here incase anyone had any more suggestions or feedback on adapting the animanga infobox system to the TV infobox. -- Ned Scott 07:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jump Ultimate Stars in need of alot of help

I haven't played the game, but I've noticed the article is a long cluttered mess. It's a video game, and falls under the anime category as well. The biggest problem: the characters list. One long list isn't working and just makes it cluttered and long. Yes, the game has many characters... but so do many other games, they don't have long lists like that. In the table for the characters, there is an "original appearance" section. Not needed either, in my opinion: the article is about the video game, not about the anime and/or magna. If people want to know about those, they can read it on the character article itself. Anyone have any thoughts on what to do about the article? Feel free to post them, or be bold... and fix the table. The cleanup tag has been there since November. RobJ1981 07:16, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

No comment on most of that, except that you're right that it needs help. The original appearance section, however, is necessary. Not only for those characters which do not have their own articles, but because in a real-world sense, the important thing is not which fictional character is there but rather what real-world franchise they are from. --tjstrf talk 07:47, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Damn that's a lot of characters...I totally need to import this game for x-mas. Anyways, I went ahead and did some major and rough splitting of the lists off. --SeizureDog 08:59, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't know about that. Moving alist from one page and just making it into a new page doesn't solve the problem completely. RobJ1981 18:41, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Of course not, but it's a quick fix. The list certainly can't be turned into prose in any case.--SeizureDog 05:38, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
I figured people would revert it, due to them not wanting the article to change. Cluttered lists make the article look horrible. It's basically a guide to characters (and the series they are in) and levels as it is now. There is some other information, but overall... just that. It should be noted: Jump Super Stars suffers from the same problems. Also there is this: Jump Superstars manga: Special Edition. It's an article on a free comic that came out because Jump Super Stars was popular. Many video games have free things: it doesn't make many (or any for that matter) notable for a single article on Wikipedia. A one time manga certainly isn't that notable in the long run. A note on the Jump Super Stars page is all that should be done in this case. RobJ1981 16:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please explain why anime and manga need to better represented on Wikipedia

Rather than deleting pages, let's talk about this in the discussion page here. Why do specific anime and manga characters or story lines warrant placement in an encyclopedia? I see the need for this page, about manga in general, and certainly one on anime in general, but what makes each character noteworthy to those outside the anime and manga community? Thanks! Uvacss 03:08, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Not a whole lot, and you're not alone in your view. However, less cruft in itself can be "better representation". -- Ned Scott 03:51, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Storylines/plot summary articles should be moved to WikiBooks. Character articles should be judged on a case by case merit. Characters for anime that last less than 26 episodes probably should be probably be merged into a "Characters from ..." article though.--SeizureDog 05:35, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree storylines and plot summary articles don't belong here. This is an encyclopedia not a storyline guide. People assume it's alright, because they see other summaries...so they make one, another person makes one, and the cycle keeps going. Fancruft of summaries needs to stop for anime and manga.RobJ1981 17:00, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Personally, I think the most egregious example of cruft, and this may be endemic to TV-show topics, is the creation of articles for each episode of a series, especially when these articles don't provide much more information than the episode-lists. I imagine it's a rare TV episode that is notable enough to have its own article.--Monocrat 17:47, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I think there's a discrepancy between the title and the question asked. For "better represented", (ie topic), I agree with most of that. There is a need to contain this section from being overwhelmed by fancruft. However, Uvacss asks "Why do specific anime and manga characters or story lines warrant placement in an encyclopedia?" I would not want him, or anyone else, think that there is no valid reason for most (if not all) anime to have their own article in Wikipedia, as I am keen to include most published books, aired TV shows, and featured movies. Just to make that clear: they are all part of contemporary culture. And they will, for the most part, become part of classical culture. As such, I think that some plot overview is necessary to provide context, and explain the nature of the cultural item. Monocrat is right about the creation of episode articles. There may be one day a show that is so popular, deep, controversial and influential that every single episode of it needs its own article. This show has not yet been aired. For now, some TV shows have some very important episodes (South park and Seifield come to mind). Some characters might also be important enough to warrant indepandant articles, but I can't think of anime/manga characters right now (maybe cobra, or Ken? They marked a whole generation worldwide). Also, I'm OK with the idea about the characters of shows with less than 26 eps, but that definitely shouldn't be strict.--SidiLemine 18:50, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Monocrat: TV episode articles for every episode are a big problem on Wikipedia. It seems like once they started, they didn't stop. The problem is people wont approve of mass AFDs on any TV show's endless episode articles. It's the whole problem of "this show has episode articles, so any other show must have them". There is a TV wiki, isn't there? Episode guides belong there for all shows. I'm sure there is anime and manga Wikis as well: episode articles should be put on there, not here. RobJ1981 05:55, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
One solution would be to begin with the shows that have almost empty episode articles, like Planetes or Serial Experiments Lain, it would then create enough precedent that fans have to justify why a particular episode would have to stay.--SidiLemine 10:04, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
I think part of the reason shows like that get small episode articles is the thinking that they have to have them in order for the "List of ___ episodes" to be featured articles.--SeizureDog 00:45, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Also, if it would set a good precedent for mass deletion of crufty character articles, I'd be happy to sponsor Excel, Hyatt, Il Palazzo, Kabapu, Gojyou Shiouji and That Man. Seeing them gone would also be a way of atoning for my newbie sins. Apart from purging the Wikipedia of their trivia and speculation, there would be no real loss from getting rid of these articles: the main character-list has been sufficiently cleaned up in my estimation. Throwing it out there.--Monocrat 03:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
There's no cause for deletion when redirecting will work just as well, you know. If you believe the list does a good enough job, then just point the pages to the list after discussing it with any other active editors on those pages. --tjstrf talk 03:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I often forget about redirects. I'll keep that in mind. :) --Monocrat 04:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
One thing that always gets me depressed is the very low number of GA/FA in this project, compared to the number of articles (4500!!). Anything that reduces the number of stubs is welcome. Where shall we start?--SidiLemine 10:11, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, at least we have 2 articles sitting in the Good Article Candidates page (Shuffle! and Death Note), so maybe we'll be able to bring the number up some. Plus, Madlax is surely at least a GA article, but he's going straight for FA.--SeizureDog 12:43, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Good. I'm currently working on getting Serial Experiments Lain from GA to FA, and Monocrat is on a very good track to make List of Excel Saga media to FL. Once that is done, we might want to get NGE to GA/FA. To me it's the most encyclopedic manga ever, with tons of reviews, scholar work, etc. It will need a radical cleanup, and some warring with the fanboys out there to get all the cruft out, but getting it to GA should be quite easy. To me it's either Neon Genesis Evangelion or Cowboy Bebop (needs refs and deleting of trivia). Any preferences?--SidiLemine 14:44, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, Shuffle! just passed, so +1 for the GAs. I definately think that we should work on Neon Genesis Evangelion first. It's much more culturally significant than Cowboy Bebop and I think there are probably more resources out there for it. Plus, it's a better article to work with. Bebop has too much that needs to be removed; you'd have to write that entire article from scratch. Evangelion mostly just needs sourcing.--SeizureDog 21:51, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Well done getting Shuffle to GA. --Squilibob 08:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
(Breaking indent) SeizureDog, I really have to disagree about the state of NGE. In short, the article suffers from problems of emphasis: too much on fans and cultural-impact and not enough on the series itself. I'm surprised at the skimpy summaries in plot and characters, and I doubt that any 26-episode anime, even NGE, deserves a full page for its plot. If anything needs to be moved sub-articles, it's "Influence" and "Inspiration and symbolism," which currently dominate the article.--Monocrat 22:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, that's still relevant, ie, to be moved to other pages, whereas CB has a lot to be simply removed, for causes of OR and triviality. I say we begin by making the page as complete, thorough, sourced and big as possible, and then we see what gets out. --SidiLemine 10:14, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Edit That being said, I agree with Monocrat, too. There's a need to inflate a little the in-world sections. When that's done and all the OR has been removed from the others, it should look much better.--SidiLemine 10:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm confused. You just contradicted yourself by calling the plot summary "skimpy", but then complaining about how it has a full page's worth of information. In any case, I was saying that NGE has more to work with. Once we get rid of all the junk we'll still have a decently sized article. CB however, will hardly have anything left. In any case, it's nice that the problem is that we need more in-world information. Generally, we have the exact opposite problem.--SeizureDog 18:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I think what Monocrat meant is that the plot doesn't warrant its own article, while the summary presented on the main article is too short. I agree to what SeizureDog says, althought we'll have to see what's left after we get rid of the OR. It might not be much. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by $yD! (talk • contribs) 20:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Fair use image on portal

Hi. This proposal and discussion is relevant to the Animga and Manga Portal: Wikipedia:Fair use/Amendment/Fair use images in portals --GunnarRene 14:38, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Examples on Project page

I have added some examples on how to use the stub tag and talk page template to better explain them. A lot of users who are new to the project don't pick up on these straight away. --Squilibob 10:58, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

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