Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/Archive/December 2006

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Have counted well over 60 of these. Will also be a parent for Cat:Dutch football biography stubs and Cat:Dutch swimming biography stubs. Waacstats 20:45, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Support Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 11:06, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was create

Currently, the only road stub for New York is {{NewYork-State-Highway-stub}}. This is fine for state routes, but it creates an odd situation when a non-state road in New York (such as a county route) needs to be tagged as a stub, hence my proposal for a generic road stub for New York, as well as a cat for such. ~25 articles currently in Category:New York State Highway stubs (county routes and articles about non-state route roads) would be better suited for a generic template/category, and most of the articles in Category:County routes in Dutchess County, New York are untagged stubs that would also fall into the scope of the generic road stub but not the state highway stub. For the most part, every article that would be tagged with this stub is associated with the New York county routes WikiProject. --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 02:04, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

• Support, thought it should have been done that way all along. Alai 03:39, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
• Support, but with this reservation: How many roads in New York are notable enough for articles? Darcyj 12:23, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Mostly county roads; as for a number, it'd definitely be more than 60. --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 20:55, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
• How many of them are notable enough for articles is the business of AfD (if it comes to it, and obviously the writers in the first place); our business is just managing the roads that already have (stub) articles. Alai 23:07, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Just out of interest, Alai, is there any reason why you're keen on this split but far less so on the London one? Personally I can't see any difference between the two (support, BTW). see below Grutness...wha? 18:37, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
    • Personally, I really can't see the similarity. These are already tagged as roads, are quite clearly in the "primarily notable as transport infrastructure" food group (rather than being essentially 'local' articles), and are currently in an inappropriately named, over-specific, and questionably-capitalised stub cat (that the roadfans seem to be inordinately fond of). The London ones, well, aren't. Alai 21:59, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
  • The London ones should also be stubbed as roads - that they aren't is neither here nor there. They are also currently in an inappropriate stub cat - a geo-stub cat, unlike every other road article I know of. Many of them are also transport infrastructure, and - if the NY cat is made, I would expect to find New York City streets listed in it as well in exactly the same way (there are quite a large number of them currently residing in the US-road-stub category). There is no difference at all between these two proposals, and if one is made, it forms a further precedent for the other. Grutness...wha? 22:22, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
    • That they aren't, on the contrary, argues that many of them are only marginally anything to do with transport (as is also clearly the case by inspection); to argue that they're "inappropriately" tagged as geo-stubs seems to be putting this backwards. This category is being cleary and explicitly proposed on the "transport" basis, and your gloss on what it "should" contain is rather unhelpful. Once again, asking NYC editors which scope and sorting scheme they'd find more helpful would seem to be prudent, rather than ignoring both notability and utility in favour of an arrangement based on semantics. Alai 22:54, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
      • So the New York City streets marked with US-road-stub should go where, exactly? Are they or are they not covered by NewYork-road-stub? If they're not, then I oppose this proposal, because it clearly doesn't cover what it says it does, and needs considerable tinkering to make sure it's for "New York roads except thpse which are primarily known for other things than transportation stubs". If they're not, then why are they marked with US-road-stub? And if they're not, why not? These are roads within the United States - in fact, within New York State, and as such, there is no logic whatsoever in marking them with anything other than the stub which is for exactly the topic which they are part of. To say that a road suddenly stops being a road because it has buildings on it is ridiculous. Both the London and New York proposals cover exactly the same sort of thing - thoroughfares within the boundaries of a specific subnational region. Arguing that one is worth creating and the other isn't makes no sense whatsoever. And arguing that for some reason the London ones should not be marked with a road stub because of objections to the split of geo-stubs by type ignores the fact that we have had road-stub and its subcategories for a very long time. You might just as well argue that we shouldn't have rail-stub or any of its subdivisions. Grutness...wha? 00:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
        • Since it appears my initial proposal has been skewed out of proportion here, let me reiterate my point: my intentions were to create this stub and the associated cat so that articles for roads not maintained by the state such as county roads or city streets would have a proper stub type. Additionally, I am not requesting that the existing NY highway stub be abolished - rather, it should become a "sub-stub" of the proposed road stub. --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 00:13, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
      • No - no-one was expecting you to mean that. The problem was whether you also intended to include NYC streets and roads. I thought you were (correctly, it seems), whereas it looks like Alai didn't think they'd be included. I can support this scope for the category far more easily than if the NYC thoroughfares were not included. Grutness...wha? 00:32, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
        • Yeah, when I made this proposal, I fully intended on including NYC streets and roads, as a couple have seeped into the NY highway stub cat and, after reading this discussion, it appears that the US road stub cat has a handful as well. --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 03:58, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
      • More than a handful - there are about a dozen in the first column of Cat:United States road stubs - 1.e., about 20% of that column. Grutness...wha? 22:51, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
        • "Skewed out of proportion" seems about right to me; I think it would have been highly preferable to 'keep what happens in London-road-stub proposal, in the London-road-stub proposal'. No, obviously I'm not suggesting that there's any problem at all in sorting what there's common consent to tag as a -road-stub, that happens to be in New York, as a New York road stub. As I've already said, the "street" vs "road" distinction is moot, if the article really a "road transport" one. I'm saying it's far from obviously useful to take what's for all intents and purposes a "local human geography" article that happens to have "Street" in the title, and insist that it be tagged as roads, absent of any prior inclination for anyone to do so. Alai 03:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
      • Virtually identical situations i.e., urban roads, ended up being commented on in exact opposite ways, and that certainly needed mentioning somewhere - and it had to be either here or in the London proposal. If I'd commented on it in the London section, you could have just as easily made comments saying 'keep what happens in NewYork-road-stub proposal, in the NewYork-road-stub proposal'. It's clear from the US-road-stub category that local urban streets are being marked as roads. It's also clear from almost every geo-stub category that they shouldn't be marked as geo-stubs. So, where to put them? Obviously in a road-stub category directly related to the area in which they exist, be it New York, London, or wherever. If streets and roads are regarded as a local human geography topic, then that's fine. They'll be marked within a regional-road-stub type where anyone working on such matters can find them readily. If there were complainst about these actually being geo-stubs, there would never have been a split of all the dozens of different road-stub categories there currently are. You can't have it both ways - it can't be a road stub when it's a road that has gaps between the buildings and runs across the country and not a road-stub when it runs through a city and has buildings on most of its length. Grutness...wha? 05:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

If no one objects, I'll create the stub/cat sometime later today. --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 20:21, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, in theory you should wait the (now) 5 days before creating, which would be Dec 6th. ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 20:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Will do. Wasn't sure if there was a waiting period or not. That's no problem. --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 20:34, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Yup. It's right here. ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 20:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Since it appears that there is a good deal of support for this stub and the proposal is now well-beyond the five day period, I'll go ahead and create it. --TMF ^{Let's Go Mets - Stats} 21:14, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was create

• Cat:1972 Summer Olympics stubs 91
• Cat:1964 Summer Olympics stubs 86
• Cat:1960 Summer Olympics stubs 77
• Cat:1976 Summer Olympics stubs 75
• Cat:1956 Summer Olympics stubs 65
• Cat:1952 Summer Olympics stubs 60

These have grown a huge amount, but fortunately they're well-categorised, so splitting should be easy enough. IIRC the '72 one is already proposed and approved. Alai 03:46, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Make it so. Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 10:58, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was create

Only 51, I'm afraid, but the euro-sports-venues are oversized again, and this seems to be the largest split available. Alai 03:19, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was create

Must have been Haiti month in November: this seems to be the largest candidate split available, at 54. (Much uncategorisation by nationality, however: only about half.) We could go for a Cat:European painter stubs, over threshold from just the Poles and Spaniards, but I don't know how useful that'd be in the long run. Alai 03:16, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

• Support Someone really likes creating stub-level Haitian biographies!--Thomas.macmillan 15:20, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
• Support - yay for Haiti.Bakaman 04:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

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There's 63 articles double-stubbed with Cat:American novelist stubs and Cat:American short story writer stubs, which suggests to me we're rapidly going the way of the actors with these. I suggest a similar solution (i.e. the Cat:American screen actor stubs). We'll probably have to split the fiction-writers by genre pretty soon anyway though (cue noises of db grinding in background). Alai 01:59, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

• Support, I guess - it's going to be a massive category. I originally saw the novelist/short story stubs as intended for people who exclusively or primarily wrote for one or the other, but it could go both ways. Crystallina 14:27, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm fully in favour of keeping those, too, on exactly the basis you suggest, just as long as the double-stubbing doesn't get outta hand. Alai 18:20, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was create

Thought I'd proposed this already, but I can't find a link to it. Anyhow, there's now 65 double-stubbed with the two parents, one of which is significantly oversized. Alai 01:34, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Support per nom. Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 11:05, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

• Support per nom.Bakaman 23:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was create

Didn't see this one coming, but there's 63 double-stubbed this way, one parent is oversized. Alai 01:34, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

• Support per nom.--Thomas.macmillan 15:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

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Further to the musicians, and the need to whack this down below 800; there's something like 129 of these, at least 80 of them double-stubbed in some manner. Alai 03:47, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Comment Not sure how much I like this one. It seems like we've begun splitting both by party, by constituent nation and by chronology, so the British -politician tree is getting somewhat complicated. On the other hand, we've already split off the Scots. Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 11:13, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure I like it much myself; however, {{England-bio-stub}} is an oversized type, so pretty much necessarily we either have to split it on such bases as present themselves, or get rid of it and split the Brits on different axes. Alai 04:02, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Support as per original propose. Monni 14:34, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was create

As with previous splits i would like to propose

• Cat:Hungarian athletics biography stubs – template already exists - 61
• Cat:Finnish athletics biography stubs – template already exists - 70
• {{Bulgaria-athletics-bio-stub}} – feeding into Cat:European athletics biography stubs and Cat:Bulgarian people stubs - 40
• {{Netherlands-athletics-bio-stub}} – feeding into Cat:European athletics biography stubs and earlier proposed Cat:Dutch sportspeople stubs - 40

These should help cut down the European category. Also although neither Cat:African athletics biography stubs nor Cat:Central America and Caribbean athletics biography stubs is not in need of pruning

• {{Cuba-athletics-bio-stub}} / Cat:Cuban athletics biography stubs } - 65

is possible and for future splits

• {{Nigeria-athletics-bio-stub}} – feeding into Cat:African athletics biography stubs and Cat:Nigerian people stubs - 45
• {{Ethiopia-athletics-bio-stub}} – feeding into Cat:African athletics biography stubs and Cat:Ethiopian people stubs - 44
• {{SouthAfrica-athletics-bio-stub}} – feeding into Cat:African athletics biography stubs and Cat:South African people stubs - 40

Waacstats 23:31, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

• Let me also throw in Cat:Australian athletics biography stubs, 66 on double stubbing alone. (I think actual double-stubbing, as far as I can see there's no {{Australia-athletics-bio-stub}}, {{Australia-athlete-stub}}, etc yet.) Alai 01:46, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I didn't propose Australia as that would have left Oceania-athletics-bio-stub serious short of numbers at 26. Waacstats 22:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was create

The record labels are over 800 again, and while my db dump is now over a month old, there's still nothing remotely like a country reaching 60 (but there's also huge uncatting by country). For the time being, I suggest a Cat:European record label stubs, which would be viable if we throw in the Germans, Swedes, and French (separately templated, of course). Alai 17:16, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

• I though European record labels were approved already. I'll do some digging to see if I can find it. ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 17:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I believe it was just Germany and Australia I proposed previously, which it was correctly pointed out I'd no idea if they'd actually reach threshold (I was just hoping, on the basis of the aforementioned undercategorisation). Alai 17:44, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
    • I did find this discussion about Italian record labels, and you even suggested a {{Euro-record-label-stub}}. =P Oh, and support. ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 18:22, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
      • Ah-hah! Close enough to fair warning for my purposes, I think... Alai 21:51, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was create

Canada bio stubs have reached 7 pages since the last dump; a rudimentary search provided me with plenty of candidates, and probably more unsorted. Crystallina 14:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

• This was actually approved back in November, so it's probably a speedy create or something like that. ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 14:48, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was create template, upmerge cat

We already have stub categories for United Kingdom Members of Parliament (MPs) from the other two major parties ({{Labour-UK-MP-stub}} and {{Conservative-UK-MP-stub}}). At the time those stub categories were created earlier this year, there were not many articles on Liberal MPs. That's partly because editors have concentrated on creating articles on more recent MPs (and obviously there have been no Liberal MPs since 1948).

However, as coverage of 19th century MPs grows, there are an increasing number of articles on Liberals: until the 1920s, they were one of the two dominant political parties. Category:Liberal MPs (UK) now has over 300 articles, some of which had existed previously but not been correctly categorised. I haven't counted how many of them are stubs (does someone have a tool to do that?), but I think that about half of the current crop are stubs, and I know that more will be created. (Note those counting: it's not enough simply to chck the intersection between Cat:Liberal MPs (UK) and {{UK-MP-stub}}; some of th existing stubs may be tagged as {{Scotland-MP-stub}} or {{UK-politician-stub}}, and I have found plenty that have a much more generalised stub tag) --BrownHairedGirl ^{(talk) • (contribs)} 14:50, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

For information The discussion which led to the creation of {{Labour-UK-MP-stub}} and {{Conservative-UK-MP-stub}} is at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/Archive/August 2006 completed#Split_of_.7B.7BUK-MP-stub.7D.7D_.2F_Cat:British_MP_stubs. --BrownHairedGirl ^{(talk) • (contribs)} 15:14, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Support template. Create category as soon as we have 60 relevant articles. Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 18:22, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was create

With the success of the Tanzania stub (there are well over 100 in the category created yesterday), I am proposing another major stub to break down the behemoth that is the Africa-ethno-group-stub. I haven't done a count, but Sudan has 173 articles in their "Ethnic groups in Sudan" category. Just guessing, but I bet their is at least 100 stubs to be found for this one. I am also proposing templates and upmerging for the Kenya (59 articles in category) and Ethiopia (49).--Thomas.macmillan 14:42, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Support per nom. Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 17:28, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was do not create

In the Category:Art_movements_stubs there is no De Stijl/Neo-modernism art stub; perhaps an addition would be helpful? It seems hard to describe articles like Red_and_Blue_Chair as any other type of art. AC 14:21, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure I fully understand (actually, I suspect you don't understand). That category contains individual articles about specific movements. The article on De Stijl is well beyond stub level. Individual works of art are sorted according to what they are, rather than the movement involved in their style. In this case, the item in question is a piece of furniture and as such should be stubbed with furniture-stub as well as art-stub. Hopefully it's in the permanent Cat:De Stijl category though. Grutness...wha? 23:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was create

Per previous English-regional splits; parent is oversized again. 57 articles on the basis of what's now a verrrrrry olllllld db dump, may well have grown in the meantime. Alai 22:36, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

• Actually, I was forgetting about Wiltshire, which is officially in the SW, so it's over 60. I've speedied this, since the precedent of English regions seems pretty clear. Alai 01:43, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was create

With a hand count, I found 88 potential stubs and it has one sub category.--Thomas.macmillan 20:26, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to support this, if I may. I've been trying to write up articles for a bunch of Zimbabwean sculptors, and I know there are more than 60 of those alone. I'm not quite ready to request a stub for Zimbabwean artists, but that might not be so far off... --User:AlbertHerring ^{Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!} 06:51, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Support. The category should be named Cat:Zimbabwean people stubs to match the corresponding material (perm cat and related stub categories). Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 17:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Btw, now that we're at it anyway, an upmerged -politician template might be an idea. Do we have an updated count for them? Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 11:00, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I didn't do a handcount, but there are 47 articles in the Zimbabwean politican category.--Thomas.macmillan 14:08, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was do not create

I would like to propose the above stub, and I propose that {{Fann Wong film-stub}} feeds into Cat:Fann Wong films. Voda voda 19:21, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

• There are 7 articles in Cat:Fann Wong films, so I'm not sure you'll be able to get 60 stubs out of that. Oppose ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 19:23, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Plus, 99.999% of film stub categories are created by genre or nationality rather than participant, so it wouldn't really conform to the convention either. If you want to connect a bunch of the actress' films, you might try using a navigation box instead of a stub template. Cheers, Her Pegship 23:23, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
    • A navigation box was what I was looking for! Thanks! Voda voda 02:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was create bio, do not create politician

I got a little inspired by the proposal for Zimbabwe and I counted 59 stubs here. Suggest both template and category. Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 17:36, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I haven't done a count, but perhaps an upmerged -politician template might be an idea since we're going through this material anyway. Does anybody have an updated count for them? Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 11:01, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I haven't done a hand count, but there are only 27 articles in the Zambia politician category.--Thomas.macmillan 14:07, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, it was worth a shot :) Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 14:21, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was do not create

7 Television Networks will be reinstated and I can Propose

• {{CBS-stub}}-feeding into Cat:CBS stubs
• {{NBC-stub}}-feeding into Cat:NBC stubs
• {{ABC-stub}}-feeding into Cat:ABC stubs
• {{TheCW-stub}}-feeding into Cat:The CW stubs
• {{MyNetworkTV-stub}}-feeding into Cat:My Network TV stubs
• {{Univision-stub}}-feeding into Cat:Univision stubs
• {{Telefutura-stub}}-feeding into Cat:Telefutura stubs All the Television Networks will be hitting 1000.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.77.215.153 (talk • contribs).

• The first 3 have already been deleted as a part of this discussion. Oppose all ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 04:52, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

All of them hitting 1,000? Not until pigs begin to fly. Oppose all Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 17:29, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Strong oppose I could possibly see using network affiliation as a way of subdividing Cat:United States television program stubs or Cat:United States television biography stubs but categorizing commercial TV stations by stubs, which based on past practice of stub assignment would be the main use of a plain network stub, is not a good stub assignment. Caerwine Caer’s whines 20:28, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Comment Found an existing {{MNTV-stub}} / Cat:MyNetworkTV stubs pair that got overlooked back in October containing all of 5 station stubs. Have sent that pair directly to SFD without collecting dust at Discoveries first. Caerwine Caer’s whines 20:49, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was do not create

This would be a great place for all the character articles clogging up the Computer-Video-Game-Stubs category. If you have a better name or anything you wish to revise, feel free. It seems redundant to list the articles that would fall under this stub, but I will if it is required. Serph, Hitoshura, and Argilla are a few quick examples.N9philim 01:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

• Already exists with {{cvg-char-stub}}. It may need further sorting though. Crystallina 01:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.