Talk:WikiMapia

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the WikiMapia article.
Wikipedian The operators of the subject of this article, WikiMapia, have edited Wikipedia as Alexandre Koriakine (talk • contribs) and Jacksav (talk • contribs).


Contents

[edit] WikiMapia talk needs to be there, not here

It really is not appropriate to discuss features/bugs/criticisms of the site on this page; I wish the creators would enable that discussion on WM rather than taking up space here. Talk pages on Wikipedia articles are, of course, for discussing the article, not the subject of the article. We are not an auxillary webhost. -- nae'blis 16:20, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


Wikipedia is not being used as "an auxiliary webhost", here... WikiMapia is one of the more exciting developments to have grown out of the entire Wikipedia project, and very much deserves its own article and discussion in Wikipedia itself: not only is WikiMapia a subject of very valid interest, to the world-at-large -- that world very much including non-developers like myself -- it also is very much in need of some general discussion of precisely the type which appears here on this Talk page.
We are not techs, here. The WikiMapia folks have asked that tech questions be emailed to them, for now, and that is what I assume tech people are doing. Yes a wiki or other "auxiliary" would be a useful thing for them to set up, probably -- like GoogleEarth's "keyhole bbs" -- but I am not tech enough to participate in that sort of thing, nor would I have the interest.
The discussion here is more just for fleshing out the Wikipedia article, so I really believe it should remain: no different from any other Wikipedia article, on any other subject of general interest.
--Kessler 23:02, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but that's not the purpose of an article talk page. Discussing what does and doesn't belong in the article is fine; discussing features or bugs of the site is not. I've archived the entire page, as it was ALL off-topic, and encourage the founders/site operators to open their own forums or discussion board so that Wikipedia is not misused for this purpose. -- nae'blis 07:06, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


Alexandre, have you thought of setting up some sort of wiki-style page on a subdomain of wikimapia? Something like "wiki.wikimapia.org" or "talk.wikimapia.org"? If Wikipedians are getting upset about having the talk here it might function better at a subdomain of wikimapia. Thoughts? Matt510 23:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Isn't a template enough telling that the content was off topic, and thus deleted, and then welcome on topic discussions? Logictheo 19:03, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reversion of edits

David, why did you reinsert the how-to sections into the article? Why do you feel it is not a stub? And finally, why did you revert me using the automated tool? -- nae'blis 14:41, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of whole chunks of accurate information is vandalism. If you want to remove relevant sections, get consensus first. Otherwise, it gets reverted. That's what the rollback tool is for. David Cannon 21:14, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

That's not accurate in my view; deleting chunks of non-encyclopedic material (how to use the software) is not vandalism, and I am insulted by your use of the automated tool as if my edit was not worth your consideration. If I'd been smacked with a trout by a bot, I could understand, but you don't seem to be taking a neutral viewpoint on this matter. It's not Wikipedia's responsibility to teach users how to use /implement Wikimapia (which is the second paragraph I removed), and the first one just doesn't make any sense. Where is this car? -- nae'blis 01:42, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
The "car" is in the top left corner. As I see it, the article does not describe the workings of wikimapia in any detail. The superficial description of how it works is necessary, in my view, to show how wikimapia differs from similar projects. I didn't mean to offend you, and I'm sorry I was so abrupt and acted without explaining my actions at the time. But there are procedures to be followed. The de facto procedure is that information is not deleted without consensus, unless it is wrong or obviously unencyclopedic. This paragraph does not fit that description: pick up any encyclopedia (such as Britannica) and read any article on a piece of software, and it describes how it works. I'll look something up in Britannica tomorrow and cite the relevant page numbers, if you like. David Cannon 09:07, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] copyright and wikimapia

I wish to know if images from wikimapia used in illustrating wikipedia article is violation of US copyright laws. Legaleagle86 11:16, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

If you are talking about satellite/map images owned by Google - then it will be a violation of Google terms of service, I suppose. But, I think that for non-commercial purposes it's allowed. Alexandre Koriakine 10:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
This is important: I removed a link to Wikimapia because it appeared to be a link to copyright violation material, a violation of Wikipedia:External links. Can setting up a whole wiki with copies of the maps really be "allowed"? Notinasnaid 19:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Is it really impossible to get a definitive answer about this? I would not want to start removing all the thousands of Wikimapia links in Wikipedia without proper confirmation of the copyright position. Hasn't Wikimapia obtained legal advice or an official note from Google? Notinasnaid 11:02, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
The definitive answer is provided by Google itself. Follow the link at the lower right corner of any wikimapia map (TERMS OF USE), and it will take you to a page outlining the matter crystal clear. Wikimapia is NOT violating their terms of use, unless I can't understand English. David Cannon 11:20, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I see "Google Maps, including local search results, maps, and photographic imagery, is made available for your personal, non-commercial use only." Wikimapia is presumably non-commercial, but can a collaborative project of this kind, with countless unknown participants and results published to the world be described as "personal"? I see the comma in "personal, non-commercial" as meaning "and", not connecting synonyms. I am not a lawyer, but I am concerned at this. "Also, you may not use Google Maps in a manner which gives you or any other person access to mass downloads or bulk feeds of numerical latitude and longitude coordinates." also worries me, though it depends how you break up this clause. Notinasnaid 11:33, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
And, perhaps simplest of all "The photographic imagery made available for display through Google Maps is provided under a nonexclusive, non-transferable license for use only by you." Notinasnaid 11:34, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, bulk feeds and mass downloads are certainly not possible in wikimapia. I can see why you regard the word "personal" as problematic, but I do believe it means only that the individual persons viewing the maps are not to use them for commercial purposes. I don't believe it refers to the medium through which the maps are viewed. If so, Google Earth and a host of other projects are jeopardized also. Your last quote, "The photographic imagery made available for display through Google Maps is provided under a nonexclusive, non-transferable license for use only by you." - also refers, I believe, to the use of the images by the individual viewing them, not to the medium through which they are viewed. David Cannon 11:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Hmm. Seems based on a very optimistic reading of the license, and lawyers aren't optimists. I don't understand why the public domain NASA images weren't used instead, creating a squeaky clean project that I know I'd be happy to contribute to. Instead of one that may end up not even allowed in Wikipedia. Notinasnaid 17:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
David is clear - Wikimapia does not violate Google Maps terms of service. Wikimapia is opened for everyone to use. What the problem with it? If there's a problem with Wikimapia, then there is a problem with Google Maps, Yahoo, MSNLive .. and.. many-many others since their licenses are not compatible with Wikipedia. NASA images are not sufficient.Alexandre Koriakine 00:27, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
I think there is a little confusion on what Wikimapia is. Wikimapia hasn't downloaded any Google Maps images. It is simply a software product that connects Google Maps with their own database of map info generated by their users. When you use Wikimapia, you are actually using Google software (Google Maps) to download Google Maps imagery directly from Google. Wikimapia isn't copying any copyrighted content, so copyright law doesn't apply to them. The only person doing copying is the user of Wikimapia, and their use is explicitly permitted by the Google Maps terms of use. I hope this makes sense. Nohat 20:28, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Connecting Wikipedia users to Wikimapia

Read more in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Alexandre_Koriakine

[edit] Terms ou Use and Licence?

Still no answer to these questions : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:WikiMapia/Archive_1#Terms_of_use_and_licence.3F) and http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimapia . For me the goal of Wikimapia is still unclear. So I do not participate as actively as I would like to, nor I'm doing tech. proposals, etc. Sorry for repeating that Alexandre and Jacksav, but I think it's a fundamental point...Olivier Auber 15:34, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I inderstand you, very soon (one-two, max three weeks) we are going to open API, for which we need a licence of use, so we need to really choose it. It would be a licence like http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/2.5/, I hope it will be ok to you. :) Alexandre Koriakine 17:59, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Good news Alexandre! As I understand, there is 3 main item which require Terms_of_use_and_licence:

1-Server program
2-Client API
3-Collected data

What do you imagine for each one? I would recommand (just like FSF does) 1-GNU GPL and GFDL, 2-GNU GPL and GFDL, 3-GFDL, and/or for the whole wikimapia project: FreeArtLicence because I think what you are doing could be a major work of art. Choosing CC-by-nc (non-commercial) would probably cause difficulties for the continuation of the project, including some kinds of incompatiblity with wikipedia --Olivier Auber 13:31, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Ce que je pense - Currently the server program is not planned to be released. Client API - sure it must have own TOS and license, thanks for pointing it. And for collected data, we want it to be opened to the public, but we don't think it must be fully compatible with Wikipedia one. Wikipedia uses many sources, but not every source really compatible with it. Moreover, as I understand, we can give special permission to Wikipedia (which is a subject to think).Alexandre Koriakine 18:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Ce que je pense cher Alex: If you don't release your server program as Free software just like mediawiki is, wikimpapia will be seen by wikipidians as a business or a web2.0 start-up like many others (http://mapygon.com , http://maplandia.com , Google Earth itself, etc.). Wikipedians will prefer free systems (http://www.geonames.org or other systems listed here) or simple solutions for geocoding wikipedia articles like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dschwen/WikiMiniAtlas and finaly reprogram a kind of wikimapia one day or another just like Passtor claimed it here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimapia#Governance.3F . As I understand the situation, you have NOW the opportunity to go further than geonames (*) and to deliver great services to the wikipedia community as well as to NGOs, even to Gov organizations in the global context of crisis. All these people could defend and finance a free project which allow them to do what they want, otherwise, they will simply do their own tool. I understand your fear in front of such a decision... Ce serait dommage pour vous et une perte de temps pour tout le monde. - Olivier Auber 00:10, 10 November 2006 (UTC) (*)for example by being compatible with it and by including statistics and import/export functions.

All we want is a successful project which is useful for people. We don't want to clone Wikipedia, we want the further development of the internet. And if the project won't have a success - this will be a problem, but the license incompability. Alexandre Koriakine 10:55, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
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