Talk:Westfield shopping centres in Australia

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[edit] Merger proposal

I am suggesting that a single article be created Westfields in AustraliaWestfield shopping centres in Australia. It would definately have sections by state then if needed by city. The existing articles would be culled for much of the repeated information. An infobox could be created showing:

  • Suburb (linked back to suburb article)
  • phone number - directory style information
  • direct link to Westfield.com.au website
  • floor space
  • number of shops - This seems directory style but it does give an indication of indiviual size / notability
  • number of car parks - is this too directory style?
  • closest railway station - is this too directory style?
  • rail line - is this too directory style?
  • etc.

Please see my suggestion that All Westfields are the same, and my proposed new article, Westfields in Australia. So far the proposed article is a bit of a bare bones effort but with some collaboration it would come together quite quickly, and if everyone who is working on about twelve articles now, all started working on one article, it would quickly reach Featured Article quality. --Garrie 00:45, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Support - I think one generic article rather than lots of separate ones is much more interesting and encyclopaedic.--A Y Arktos\talk 22:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep SeperateDo Not Merge - I like the extended detail on each Westfield, and if all Westfields are merged into one article, this detail will be lost. Even if some details about each unique Westfield are kept in one article, it will be really, really, really long. I like the information on what bus services, carparking and where the major shops are located in each indiviual article. Do not delete --Whats new? 09:24, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I am not proposing to do away with anything unique about any of the locations. If you feel bus route information belongs in the article then it will fit. WP:NOT paper! the article can be long. If a section outgrows being a section then it can move back to being a standalone article referring back to this one so that it does not duplicate information which is on a large collection of other articles.
Comment:If you feel so strongly about bus route information being included on westfields articles perhaps you could expand Westfield Hurstville#Access? Garrie 03:00, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Don't not merge into one article - nothing is gained from grouping a number of stub and directory entry style articles into a single directory style article. Directory type information (phone number, parking information) doesn't belong on Wikipedia. Once that is cut out, few Westfield centres support more than a paragraph or two of prose, so the place for most of them is within their suburb's article. --Mako 22:19, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment:The proposal I think would not be to create a directory style article but to create an article describing the cookie cutter approach. As wikipedia is not a directory, information about car parking in each centre for example is not really encyclopaedic to my mind, whether in individual articles or a single article. The approach to car parking for shopping malls as a principle is, similarly lists of shops is not what an encyclopaedia is about; relationships with franchises, retail chains and individual leaseholders is.--Arktos talk 05:57, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment:Fair enough leave the directory information out. But rather than the detail what about the concept? Individual Westfield centres don't support much more than a paragraph or two. But what about the fact that there are 53 of the things, 10,900 shops, 3.4 million sq metres of leasable space, worth $20.4 billion Aust? Garrie 03:00, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Merge Voting to merge as proposer Garrie 02:49, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose this process. First create article Westfields in Australia; include in the article relevant general information on Westfields in Australia, and a section entitled "list of Westfield shopping centres in Australia", containing relevant information on each centre. Then, one at a time, propose the individual shopping centre articles for merging into the general article. That way we get to consider each article on its merits, instead of mindlessly applying an alleged consensus that was formed even before the general article was written. Snottygobble 03:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment Agree. It also strikes me that "Westfields" is a euphamism and is innapropriate for an article name in an encyclopaedia. Suggest Westfield Shopping Centres in Australia. -- I@n 03:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
      Or Westfield shopping centres in Australia? Snottygobble 03:50, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
      I agree that my proposed name isn't quite right. The name I support would be Westfield shopping centres in Australia - maybe with another article for the Westfeild Group in Australia if they do anything else. Garrie
Thanks for moving this talk page. Garrie 23:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Clarification: I don't know if you missed my existing proposed article. It is in userspace because it's not ready for article space yet and I don't want it showing up in search results until it is a bit more polished. The link is Westfields in Australia. Garrie 23:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
True, but I don't see that as a reason not to merge. -- I@n 07:24, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment as per I@n, it is no reason not to merge that this article might gather up many shopping centre articles. Furthermore, something specific to a locality can be mentioned in that locality's article page - eg the fact that the locality has a shopping centre operated by Westfield. So two places a shopping centre might be mentioned - this merged article and the locality article but not its own article as per wikipedia is not a directory and each shopping centre in itself is not encyclopaedic (at least most of them are not).--Arktos talk 08:20, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Comment This concept has prompted an editor from Wagga Wagga to consider a similar approach for the various "(suburb) Marketplace" shopping centres (see: Wagga Wagga Marketplace). So many of the articles on that page will link back to common articles. This in itself is not unusual.
Also, the link can be to a section it doesn't have to be to the top of the article.Garrie 23:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plans for this article

It appears the consensus view is Do Not Merge, but the discussion has been worthwhile. It appears there is room for a single article to discuss the common features of Westfield shopping centres in Australia, and the important part Australia played in the corporate history and development of The Westfield Group.

I will go ahead and create an article, which fits between Westfield Mount Druitt and The Westfield Group. When it reaches a point of stability, as the main editor involved in Westfield Mount Druitt I will bring that one article in, and get it to fit without excessive directory replication from http://westfield.com.au/mt_druitt.

I had become a bit too involved in my personal plans for this article but it should be built upon a consensus view not the opinion of one editor. Thanks to all for input.Garrie 05:27, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge into articles for each state

Sorry to join the discussion so late, but, might it be an idea to merge the articles into one article for each state / territory (or something similar)? e.g.Westfield shopping centres in New South Wales. One article for the whole of Australia seems too long and long articles should be broken up into separate articles each dealing with a separate topic. Most articles would be a good length and could form a meaningful series. -- Gareth Aus 10:37, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

There was absolutely no consensus to merge anything, as seen by the equally split discussion above. I have thus reverted all this mess. Rebecca 09:48, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Well as it all happened in user space ( the actual articles in main space weren't created were they?) the only thing to revert was the merge templates... so thanks for doing that. If anyone had drawn them back to my attention I would have been all too happy to do the same. Garrie 11:48, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
No, they were all actually merged. It took up quite a lot of time to clean up the resulting mess. Rebecca 02:17, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
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