Talk:Wendy Carlos

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I've moved this from Walter Carlos because: 1. she's not known as Walter any longer; and 2. almost all the stuff she's famous for is under the name "Wendy". --Camembert

OK, maybe not "almost all", but she's almost always referred to as "Wendy" these days, anyway. --Camembert

Plus it's just nicer.Hyacinth

Of course :) --Camembert

What is it with musicians and sex changes? Wally Stott did it too...

You can't really generalize like that, surely? Out of all the musicians here, only 2 so far are transsexuals... Dysprosia 03:02, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)
And then there's Prince...

Should I add Wendy to Category:Women composers? I don't want to pigeonhole her into a fixed gender role, but it seems as if her gender is that of a woman. Jimaltieri 08:29, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

She identifies as female, so go ahead. Dysprosia 08:37, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I agree. Leaving her out of any list of composers would be a loss to whomever is doing the research. --Richard deCosta

Removed image. It's not representative of her, and there's no sort of source or other information for the image (or copyright for that matter). Dysprosia 00:49, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Historical Revisionism Sucks. Thebaron

1st, I moved your comment to the bottom of the talk page as is standard for new comments, see Wikipedia:Talk page. I added the line because I'm not sure if you're commenting on the article in general, the talk page discussion in general, or recent Dysprosia's edit. See directly below:
2nd, what are you talking about? It would greatly help discussion if you elaborated on your problems with the article. You could also use a Wikipedia:Heading, which may facilitate discussion by indicating and limiting topics related to the article. For instance, you could make a heading (commonly "header") whose title describes in a few words one problem you have with the article. This will make it easy for people to address that issue, work towards consensus, and eventually resolve the issue or dispute and improve the article.
Hyacinth 03:11, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
It's not really legitimate to be editing other people's comments, Hyacinth. Jake b 14:19, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Being not "cruel"

On a link given at "personal life" section, there is another link in which Wendy lists websites that have mistreated her. I am not sure what is her criterion for mistreatment, but I wonder if it was a good idea to remove all this "personal life" stuff and references to gender issues from this wikipedia article. Of course, wikipedia can have material that somebody regards as offending, but in musician articles, personal issues are not very important so they could be removed. 128.214.200.98 10:09, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

You're right. They're not very important. But I see nothing cruel about discussing factual information in a frank and honest fashion. I am aware that she views her Playboy interview as a mistake, but that places no obligation on Wikipedians to censor themselves in recording the facts. I don't see this situation as being mistreatment: this article concentrates on her career and all other Wikipedia articles that mention her make no reference to her transition. The "Personal life" section handles the situation very respectfully, I believe. It would be a shame if articles had to be censored so as not to offend anyone. I've reverted your edits. -- Krash 14:27, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
In the case, if facts are not important and there is possibility to hurt somebody, then I would prefer careful line. And living persons can be treated more carefully than dead ones. Cencorship is a wrong word here, let's not use it. I made a new suggestion about discography formulation and then I removed those surgeon things. I think they are unimportant and very private matters. I probably don't make further reverts or edits, but this is my current suggestion. 128.214.205.5 08:39, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
I believe she is talking about people talking about her using inaccurate pronouns, inaccurate representations of transgender people, etc. etc. We have a fair and accurate representation here of her; our article I would argue does not "hurt" her -- we can't be responsible for how others use our information. Dysprosia 09:48, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
Probably true. I just got cautious, when I read she did not like Allmusic guide, and I didn't manage to find anything that special from allmusic.com site. 128.214.200.99 12:56, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "born"

I've long perceived wikipedias "born (other name)" policy as somewhat rude, especially since it's so prominently placed in a page. For Wendy's page, I'd prefer a phrasing like "some records released under the name Walter Carlos, see Personal Life for details". For some other transsexuals (that don't have a record back catalogue) I don't see why the birth name should figure so prominently in the beginning of the article. It's more than enough to mention it in passing in a short biographical note. I'm very hung up on names and I get seriously anxious/hurt whenever I'm called by my birth name. Wendy seems to feel the same way. This might seem silly to people who've never been in this situation. --85.226.144.15 21:16, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

People's attitudes do change through their lives. In this instance Wendy's history is being reported both accurately and neutrally. She is not being called by her former name in the article, but the name needs to be up front for identification purposes, as a disambiguation just like in any other Wikipedia article. I have the early Walter Carlos albums, which she chose to release under that name. She could have used a pseudonym (a common entertainment industry practice) if it had bothered her at the time. Anyone with the early albums would be confused by the article if the disambiguation was not present. Notice that the focus of the article is on her wonderful work, where it should be. --Blainster 22:44, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
What's rude about it? This is supposed to be a biography. A sex change is a tremendous step, and to pretend that it never happened would just be dishonest. --24.58.13.127 18:45, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Facts are facts. If I was born name Tulip and I did not like it and changed it, the faact remains that I was born Tulip, no amount of politness will change that fact. It does not invalid the fact that I am now known differently. (FYI, I was not born with the name Tulip). HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 01:54, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] that picture

I have to wonder if it's really necessary and/or appropriate. I'm removing it for now. -- Krash 00:53, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

What? Why?! That photograph was taken professionally after she had just gotten acclaim for her albums. She posed for it. Why is that unnecessary or inappropriate? Put it back. --WACGuy 06:37, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
I'll wait for someone who wants to put it back to do so. If that person is you, I won't revert your edits, but I might request for comment depending on the situation. However I figured this dispute would perhaps be more easily solved on this talk page instead. While the "photograph was taken professionally" and "she posed for it" are true statements, they do not appear to me to be valid arguments in this situation.
My thoughts are:
  • The picture is not relevant to the article. If this were about a model, numerous pictures would seem more necessary. However we're dealing with a composer/musician. There's already a more current (and more accurate representation) of Wendy at the top of the page. The article should focus on the career of Wendy Carlos, not her image.
  • Also, and please tell me otherwise if I am assuming incorrectly here, I'm not sure if Wendy likes gratuitous references to Walter. As such, I'm not sure if it's appropriate.
-- Krash 14:12, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
Yeh, I'm sure Wendy Carlos checks this page several times a day to make sure it's P.C. However, that "professional" photo is like a joke stereotype of the late-60s-early-70s look. How would any of us like to have our college-age snapshots posted publicly??? I say leave it off the page because it's stupid-looking. Wahkeenah 14:24, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
I'd be 99% certain that Carlos monitors this page, and I'm sure she's behind at least one of the edits in the history. I definitely agree that the artist's wishes on this subject should be respected and these pictures kept off. - Anon
Whatever, my intentions were honorable. I was taking a neutral stance, I tried my best to keep the language PC when adding additional info. My intentions were not to disrespect the artist nor praise her. As with any encyclopedia article, the author should be objective.
Model? Damn! 1 picture. You act as if I bombarded the page with photos.
An encyclopedia article about a person focuses on that person's life which includes her career. An article on Vincent Van Gogh would seem rather odd if it only talked about his paintings and not about his depression, his poverty, his ear. Same with Tchaikovsky, it'd be inadequate to have an in-depth article that didn't mention his homosexuality. It's not to slander these people, they were some of the most creative people who ever lived, but rather to perhaps give a better insight into their work, how their personal life impacted their art. Problems affect the way people live, the way they think.
And as for the picture, that was a very good picture, I don't know what you mean by "stupid-looking". It was taken at a good angle with good lighting, I wish I was that photogenic. The photograph was taken to promote her music, so that makes it inappropriate?
Whatever, I can't stop revisionism. Agenda over historical integrity. You guys do whatever you want. I don't care anymore. In fact, delete the entire personal history section, it doesn't make anyone feel good about anything at all.--WACGuy 04:02, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

The difference is that those others are long dead, so they couldn't care less what wikipedia has to say about them. That does raise the question, though... to what extent we should care what living persons have to say, as long as the article is factual. How much gory detail should it have about Walter being transformed into Wendy? As far as the picture goes, I took another look at it. My original assessment stands. It looks like anybody from that era, with the humongous sideburns and the Beatle haircut. Yuch. Wahkeenah 04:39, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

To the point of truth. No further, no shorter. HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 01:56, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lawsuit over song?

I heard that Wendy Carlos sued a band for making a song titled "If Wendy Carlos Went Back in Time, Could She Have Sex With Himself?"

Is this true? I've heard this a few places so it may be important to mention even if it's not true, just to clarify that it is an urban legend, if that's the case.

Also, I see evidence that she sued the band Momus for releasing a song simply titled "Walter Carlos." I believe a Lawsuits section would be appropriate to detail these various lawsuits. 24.18.35.120 02:51, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I found this info on the Stars Forever page: Stars Forever also features the winners of a karaoke contest started on the album The Little Red Songbook (1998) which featured the song "Walter Carlos", which postulated that Wendy could travel back in time to marry Walter, and led to Carlos' lawsuit.
It seems that this lawsuit was exagerrated somewhat. Perhaps a section clarifying it is in order? 24.18.35.120 02:56, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eclipses

In recent years, Wendy Carlos has gone into chasing and eclipses of the sun, and taking high-tech photographs of them. Her photos are very much respected. I met her, a little, in June 2001, when we were both on the same eclipse tour in Lusaka, Zambia.

I'm surprised none of that is in the article.

Stephen Kosciesza 140.147.160.78 15:32, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

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