Talk:Weimar Republic

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Contents 1 Archives 2 Call for polish 3 Freistaat (Free State) 4 Zweites Reich 5 GA status 6 Constitution 7 Reich or state? 8 Weimar stamp

[edit] Archives

1, 2,

[edit] Call for polish

Am I the only one who feels that the writing could be tweaked/polished beginning from the section "Franz von Papen calls new elections? I would do it myself, but I came looking because I don't know much about Weimar Germany. Oh, and I'm lazy. 09:52, 8 February 2006 unsigned by 64.180.47.30

[edit] Freistaat (Free State)

I have just copied a map onto the article page from the article States of Germany. I have left the caption alone. "The Länder of the Weimar Republic, with the Free State of Prussia (Freistaat Preußen) as the largest". But were the federal parts of the Weimar Republic called Länder in the constitution or some other name?

Articles like Free state (government)#Germany also use the term Länder,"In Germany the term free state (in German, Freistaat) was part of the full names of most Länder (federal states) during the inter-war period." is the term correct for the Weimar Republic?

In the article States of Germany has another map with "The Provinces of the Kingdom of Prussia (green) within the German Empire (1871-1918)" Was East Prussia a province of Prussia the Weimar Republic or did it have some other designation? --Philip Baird Shearer 11:37, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

The Weimar Constitution called the states "Länder", much to the dismay of the states. This is one example of centralizing effects of the Weimar Constituion, which is an often overlooked problem of the new system. However, the various Länder all had names of their own and most of them called themselves Freistaat (Free state), Hessen was a Volksstaat (Popular state) and Baden a Republic. As for Prussian provinces. Everything that was Prussian under the Kaiser was also Prussian under the Weimar Republic (with the exception of the territories ceded to other nations, most notably Poland). The only change in provinces was that the remnants of the Provinces of Western Prussia and Posen were merged into a new province. Some parts of Western Prussia were also merged into Eastern Prussia. All other provinces remained the same. Str1977 ^{(smile back)} 00:08, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zweites Reich

I wasn't a fan of the part that glosses over the political structure of Germany prior to WWI. I was under the impression that while the ministers in the Kaiser's government were ultimately answerable to the Kaiser, the Bundestag had control of the purse strings. Historically, this arrangement typically leads to parlimentary democracies (I think...like in Britain?). I usuallly think that the Zweite Reich gets treated too much as a totalitarian regime that was an enemy of democrcy, while in reality it was probably on a course to eventual parliamentary democracy. But, I'm not a student of Germany history...So feel free to enlighten me. 67.160.235.243 06:09, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

To call any German state prior to 1933 totalitarian is just ridiculous. Those who do probably haven't considered what the term actually means.

In the Kaiserreich, there actually were no ministers as such. There was the Chancellor appointed by the Kaiser. The Chancellor had his sub-secretaries that later developed into something like ministers but these were never politically responsible to anyone.

The Reichstag (=parliament) had legislative powers and budget power, though that was limited regarding the military budget (and that was the largest part of the budget): the military budget was voted every seven years - the Reichstag was elected every three years.

The Bundesrat (=states' representation) was in the beginning the central body and it was more powerful than the Reichstag.

In 1918 however, the constituion was changed, under the pressure of World War I (especially the US and the German military leaders that wanted to shift the blame): ministers were introduced and made politically responsible and the Chancellor needed parliament's approval. Members of parliament (Social Democrats, Centre Party, Left-wing Liberals) became ministers. But this arrangement was short-lived because of the revolution in November.

However, it should be clear that it were these changes and not the revolution that turned Germany into a parliamentary system. Ebert would have preferred a parliamentary monarchy with a different Emperor.

How things would have unfolded without the war, we cannot tell. Str1977 ^{(smile back)} 00:02, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Forgive me, it's a while since I have studied German history, but I seem to remember a school of thought (Fisher, Berghan?) which argued that the contradictions and tensions within the Kaiserreich between feudal/militaristic and parliamentary elements made it inherently unstable? The war, this thesis continues, was in some respects a consequence of these contradictions. I doubt very much if the Prussian Junkers around Wilhelm would ever willingly have surendered power-and control of the military-to the Reichstag. You are right, though, to dismiss any suggestion that the Second Reich was 'totalitarian'; but does any state-with the possible exception of Stalin's Russia-come anywhere near this model? Hitler's Reich was such a bundle of madly competing interests that it cannot really be described as totalitarian in any meaningful sense. White Guard 02:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

You are right about this school of thought.

I also doubt that a parlamentarisation would have easily happened. There certainly would have been conflicts about that, the outcome of which we can never know.

About "totalitarian":

The difference between "totalitarian" and "authoritarian" is that the latter merely demands obedience from its subjects (and to the extent that any state does that, any state is authoritarian). The former however is not content with mere obedience, it wants complete internal assent, in a way, it wants to be loved. You could grumble about politics under the Kaiser and thought this didn't change anything, you were free to do it. You couldn't under Hitler.

Now, there were a couple of totalitarian regimes: you mention Stalin (but let us not forget, that the Soviet Union was already totalitarian under Lenin and remained totalitarian under Stalin's successors), but there's also Nazi Germany, Mao's China, the Khmer Rouge, or to go back in time, the French Republic under Robespierre. And certainly various revolutions (or wannabe revolutions) have created an totalitarian environment, but as they were short-lived I won't go into details.

One more thing: the totalitarian nature of a regime does not depend on whether it actually has the means to implement its totalitarian objectives - yes, there were niches under Hitler and also in the Soviet Union but they existed because the regime could not (yet) remove them.

Str1977 ^{(smile back)} 13:23, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA status

• Send it to peer review now for more insights. Lincher 03:20, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Constitution

Does anyone out there have the text of the constitution of the Republic? It seems like a relevant issue to me.

EDIT: Found it and put it in "see also"

King ofall1 13:51, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reich or state?

To translate 'Reich' as 'Empire' is far too precise: it can indeed mean 'empire', but it also means 'realm', which is, I think, a far more accurate rendition for the Weimar Republic. White Guard 22:25, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I would suggest not to translate it at all. Whenever it is necessary to use the official name say "Deutsches Reich" (with possibly an explanation), otherwise say Germany. Str1977 ^{(smile back)} 23:52, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

My view also. White Guard 00:53, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Weimar stamp

Hi this might not be appropriate to ask.. but i was just wondering if you guys knew where the weimar republic stamp was (ie the ink rubber stamp, and it was black on white paper. on its own) . I'm sure i have seen it on one of the articles about weimar etc, 2-3 weeks ago. But now i cant find it. Would any of u hava clue.? please help thanx