Talk:Weapon (Final Fantasy)

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Contents 1 Uppercase Magic 2 Origin 3 Sapphire Weapon 4 Omega WEAPON 5 Missing Weapons 6 WarMech 7 Ozma - Final Fantasy IX 8 Ultima Weapon 9 Theory in the FF universe 10 Ruby Weapon 10.1 Note on Ruby and Emerald HP in VII 11 Ultima or Ultimate? 12 Chaos 13 You're Missing One 14 Diamond Weapon ... Sensing Murder? 15 The Ultima Weapon from FF 1+II: Dawn of Souls should appear in this

[edit] Uppercase Magic

Shouldn't the FFVII Weapons have the 'Weapon' part be all uppercase, as in Diamond WEAPON, instead of Diamond Weapon? That's how they were referred to as in the game. --Apostrophe 05:15, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Origin

arent the Cetra the the Creators of the WEAPONS? If So this should be included in the article.

Nope, they were created by the Planet itself. -Reichu 05:08, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Where is that mentioned? Because I thought the Cetra had some connection in their creation. -- Psi edit

It's mentioned by Bugenhagen, I believe. Before the WEAPONs wake. Definitely made by the Planet itself, and not by the Cetra, though they probably knew about them.
TKarrde 20:07, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Played through the game again. Ifalna talks about the WEAPONs in the recordings at Icicle Inn before you go to the Great Glacier, and Hojo talks about the WEAPONs more immediately before the WEAPONs wake up and go berserk. They were created by the planet to destroy Jenova, but never had a chance to be used because the last survivors of the Cetra used their remaining power to seal Jenova up underground (this was before Jenova was dug up by a Shinra archaelogical team). TKarrde 15:20, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes and Ive also found information regarding what theyre supposed to do. Which is destroy every thing capable of harming the planet and the lifestream and in doing so increase the flow of souls in the lifestream. -- Psi edit 17:12, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sapphire Weapon

Sapphire Weapon's name is never actually mentioned in FFVII. It was fan-given. Should this be included as well? ~ Hibana

I know it wasn't named in FFVII the game, but the name is not fan-given. It is actually its official name. I have record somewhere... — Cuahl 30 June 2005 17:38 (UTC)

Okay. ~ Hibana

In case you're still interested or confused, here's where it was confirmed: square-enix.co.jp/shop/goods

A long time ago Square Japan were selling models of the FF creatures and here is "Sapphire". See here also (2nd set). — Cuahl 4 July 2005 22:29 (UTC)

I have pictures :)

It was first confirmed to be its official name in the bonus fourth disk that was included with FFVII International. Druff 18:45, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Omega WEAPON

Where does the information on Omega in DoC come from? I can find no co-oberration in a quick search, though I did find this; http://www.ff7-doc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=90. --Made2Fade 18:16, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure this is just blatant speculation. They refer to Chaos - and arguably Lucrecia, as well - as "weapons" in the DoC trailer(s) (E3 one, I think), which would imply that they are NOT talking about the same Weapons that we met in the original game. Impossible to be sure, although I think that this sort of speculation does not belong in Wikipedia at this point, considering the ambiguity. Omega, as the forum thread you found speculates, may simply be Azul's transformation, in the same way that Chaos is Vincent's. -Reichu 15:32, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Missing Weapons

I added the Warmech to the page. I also thought of adding Asteroth from FFII and Shinryuu from FFV (Japanese versions.) Finally, what about the Dark Aeons from FFX? None of these has a weapon-related name, but I think they fit into the definition presented in the article.--Lettucefolk 12:41, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

I think we need to keep on point here: the only special case presented originally was Final Fantasy V's Omega, and the rationale for that was simply because he reappeared in a very similar form as Omega Weapon in Final Fantasy VIII. The Dark Aeons certainly don't fit in with the definition presented (they're not biomechanical), and I'm not really comfortable including WarMech, either. This isn't an article about powerful, optional bosses from the FF series, and if we start treating it as such, it's going to get way too long, and very likely way too fancrufty (Pink Puffs, Ozma, et al.). I think the furthest astray we risk going is for folks like Omega and Atma (second form). Anything beyond that belongs in another article, IMO. – Seancdaug 02:14, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Ok if we're only keeping things with "weapon" in their name, why is Nemesis from FFX there?--Lettucefolk 07:20, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Good question, actually. Probably because of its resemblance to the two Weapons that are in the game (Omega and Ultima). I don't really have a problem with mentioning other superbosses where appropriate (say, for example, mentioning Shinryu in our writeup of Omega from FFV), but I think any mention should be fairly restricted. For example, I think it would be worthwhile to have a sentence mentioning WarMECH in the context of another entry (perhaps Omega, again, because they look superficially similar), but not much beyond that. Contextualizing is good, but this article does have a topic, and that topic is not being served if we just take it as an excuse to summarize every optional boss in the series' history. – Seancdaug 11:13, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Hmm, good answer. ;) I don't think that a mention to Warmech in Omega will look pretty, since it's from a different game. Maybe there could be created a section/page that described/named some powerful (more powerful than the final boss) monsters in the FF series. They are no so common, and I guess they deserve a mention somewhere.--Lettucefolk 13:15, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

On the subject of Nemesis in FFX, it's probably worth mentioning that Paragon in FFX-2 is classified as a Weapon under Shinra's Dossiers, meaning that both itself and Nemesis are Weapon-type Fiends. So both are Weapons even though it's not affixed to their names. -- Ryu Kaze January 16, 2006

[edit] WarMech

WarMech was recently added as a Weapon from Final Fantasy. It kind of makes sense to me, but WarMech is a regular, random enemy that can be encountered multiple times. What does everyone else think? ~ Hibana 23:12, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

WarMech should stay out. Omega from FFV is pushing it and only valid due to it being the obvious basis for other Weapons later in the series. Ryu Kaze 06:57, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

But WARMECH is not listed anywhere on Wikipedia. Where else is more appropriate? He's a precursor to the WEAPON concept - he's a powerful boss, he's not (necessarily) plot-related, he's more powerful than many plot-required bosses in the game (heck, some consider him stronger than Chaos - I sure do), he's got attacks and powers unavailable to other monsters (Nuclear)... The similarities are many. He's not called a weapon, but he does seem to be a precursor to the idea behind them. If not on this article, where would be most appropriate to include him? Kasreyn 02:27, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

There is also Shinryuu and Ozma, a couple more examples of Final Fantasy Superbosses that don't fit the Weapon mold, of which this page is specifically about. Granted, I'd say WarMech is more Weapon-esque than either of those two (though, on the other hand, my examples can each only be encountered once), but he isn't the only one getting shafted. There isn't really a point I'm trying to make; I just thought I'd mention that =] Ojaxis 14:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ozma - Final Fantasy IX

Alright, so he's not mentioned as a Weapon, but neither is Omega or WarMech. How about it? (Momus 00:23, 30 September 2005 (UTC))

Well, there is some debate on whether or not WarMech should be included, and I'm inclined to say no, myself. Omega (FFV) is in because he does reappear as a Weapon in later games (his appearance in FFVIII, for example, is similar to his appearance in FFV). I can see Omega as a border case, and would support his inclusion, but WarMech and Ozma both push things too far, IMO. This isn't an article on FF superbosses in general: it's an article on Weapons. – Seancdaug 02:03, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ultima Weapon

The name of the Weapon in FF7 is actually "Ultima", not "Ultimate", so I took the liberty of correcting this. On a somewhat more pressing note, Ultima Weapon has its own article. I think it probably goes without saying that it should be merged with this one... -Reichu 05:07, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

It does go without saying that the merge should occur. Seeing as how it's been four months to the day and not a single person has opposed the notion -- or taken care of it -- I'm going to do that now. Ryu Kaze 12:26, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Theory in the FF universe

I was just thinking that if WEAPONs appear in most of the FF games. Then couldnt that sort of imply that the world in the FF story lines are really the same and theyre all just put in diiferent timelines and alternate universes of each other? -- Psi edit

There are several consistencies between the FF games. That's what makes them all part of the same series. Unfortunately, no one has ever come out and officially stated anything in your theory. ~ Hibana 03:02, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ruby Weapon

Ruby Weapon has 800,000 HP not 1,000,000. All info concerning Ruby and any other enemy can be viewed in this Enemy Mechanics FAQ.

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/final_fantasy_vii_enemy_mech.txt

that is a fan made guide. sure it looks cool, but it can be wrong and is not a valid reference. gamefaqs isn't always right. Spencer 06:47, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

That FAQ was made by digging through the source. What possible reference could you have that's more valid?

i'm sorry boss, you don't understand. it is not reliable. it is not an offical source. you do not know the person who made that FAQ. fan made creations cannot be held as truth. now please stop chaning the article. Spencer 06:55, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Good job at dodging my question. I won't stop until you prove to me that 800,000 is false and I yet to see any evidence to believe so. While the FAQ is fan made it's more creditable than some theory or hunch. I personally don't know the creator, but Terence is known to be a reliable source. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.185.120.63 (talk • contribs) 02:01, 16 January 2006.

I agree with Spencer that FAQs are not the ideal source of information. In this case, though, it's the only source that has been provided. An "official" source would trump the fan-made FAQ, but a FAQ is better than the lack of source information currently present in the article. – Seancdaug 10:24, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I've added a reference to a Versus Books player's guide that was published when the game was released in 1997. I could have used Harvard referencing to make it look more official, but this should be okay. The hit points should not be changed again unless a reputable source says otherwise. Then we can continue this discussion. ~ Hibana 16:54, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Here's a reliable source for you: Two official books, one of which was published by Famitsu/Aspect eight years ago when the game was released, and the other having been published just this past September by Square-Enix. Both clearly state that Ruby WEAPON's HP is 800,000, while Emerald WEAPON's is 1,000,000. The first book is the Final Fantasy VII: Kaitai Shinsho and the other is the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega Guide. Here's scans of the relevant pages from both books:

(From the Katai no Shinsho) [1]

(From the Ultimania Omega Guide) [2]

Adequate verification? -- Ryu Kaze January 16, 2006

not to be a jerk, but does that correspond to the North American release of the game? Spencer 21:26, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it does. This is the data used for FFVII: International, which is just the North American version with a bonus disc (vehicle schematics and an item encyclopedia) and a few extra novelty items (like Johnny's Jacket). -- Ryu Kaze 4:28 PM , Janary 16 2006

k, ^_^ Spencer 21:31, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Why does it say 1,000,000 when both scans say 800,000?

[edit] Note on Ruby and Emerald HP in VII

I've beaten each several times and noted down the damage required. The game seems to generate a somewhat random amount of HP for each of them every time you fight. (As opposed to Ultima and Diamond WEAPONs, which seem to always have a precise amount of HP). I've beaten Emerald with only barely over a million damage, and one time it took something like 1.7 million. Ruby has varied from 1.2 to 1.5 million in my experience. What system the game uses to generate the HP, I have no idea. Kasreyn 02:08, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ultima or Ultimate?

There seems to be a minor revert war going on between those users who believe that Ultima Weapon is called "Ultimate Weapon" in the English version of FFVII and those who don't. If I recall correctly, it is indeed called "Ultimate Weapon," but Cloud's most powerful sword that the player obtains from the monster, as well as the monsters and weapons in the rest of the games in the series, is called "Ultima Weapon." ~ Hibana 18:17, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

The Japanese name for it is actually "Ultima WEAPON." For whatever reason, the translators expanded that to "Ultimate WEAPON." Ryu Kaze 01:08, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Hibana, it should be called Ultima WEAPON. For the majority of the FF series it has been called that, so why not now? ~ Ultimate Perfect Chaos 20:26, 5 May 2006 (UTC) ~

[edit] Chaos

• Is Chaos ever officially referred to as a Weapon in the course of Dirge, or is this simply fanon? Some citation would be nice. --Made2Fade 08:58, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You're Missing One

Vegnagun from Final Fantasy X-2

[3]

[edit] Diamond Weapon ... Sensing Murder?

What does it mean when the Diamond Weapon sensed "murder"? I don't understand where this stems from... Disinclination 01:02, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Ultima Weapon from FF 1+II: Dawn of Souls should appear in this

In the "Dawn of Souls" bonus area that you get after beating the game, you can fight the Ultima Weapon to get the Ultima Tome in the warp leading away from Machanon. This is not only important to the storyline of the game, it shows that Weapons are capable of passing into the realms of the dead, which I think is an important bit of trivia.