Talk:Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos

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Contents 1 Professional players 2 Split RoC and TFT? 3 balance 4 Merge material 5 Custom Maps 6 Regarding War3 Units 7 ETS 8 Custom maps list 9 Mergeing Dragonhawk Rider, Witch Doctor and Pandaren Brewmaster 9.1 Pandaren Brewmaster 9.2 Witch Doctor 9.3 Dragonhawk Rider 10 Art Tools and other modding apps 11 Undead Campaign 12 Overview? 13 Quotations 14 Removal of lingo used on Battle.net 15 More merges 16 Time 17 Tactics, shouldn't be there...? 18 Warcraft Custom Maps 19 Custom Maps Section Significance 20 Advanced Melee AI 21 Removal of some external links

[edit] Professional players

The blurb about professional players was deleted from the page, but I'm not sure why. There are a number of professional Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne players worldwide. It was tagged for deletion based on the concern of notability. But what do we have to do to establish this? There are numerous websites discussing the professional multiplayer scene. It should at least be mentioned. For example, 4K.Grubby was just elected the world's best Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne player. That's really cool! Where was the link to Grubby's Wikipedia page? Csc14us 04:33, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Split RoC and TFT?

Should this be moved to Warcraft III: The Reign of Chaos and be adapted into a disambiguation page that links to Reign of Chaos and Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne? Just a suggestion... ugen64 03:59, Mar 18, 2004 (UTC)

No. They are not big enough subjects unto themselves to warrant seperate articles. I know there is a seperate article for Frozen Throne, but, IMHO, I don't think it'll ever grow past it's stub state and should be merged into the main article. —Frecklefoot 15:55, Mar 18, 2004 (UTC)

Yes. Not only do they have enough subject matter they have too many differences and inconsitencies to include them on the same page. In Warcraft III: The Reign of Chaos it should say "Each race has a choice of 3 heros to choose from", then you would only have to turn around and negate that when talking about the Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne because 4 heros now exist. Instead of a detailed list of what changed (which is too long) the Warcraft III: The Reign of Chaos should denote a sequel came out and link to Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne page.—dwp 10:48, May 13, 2004 (UTC)

Yes. Looks like this question has gone unanswered for about a year, so I figured I would dig it up again. In my opinion the Warcraft III page should be renamed/moved to Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos and then there should be a separate Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne and all related information should be split out into that page. My justifications for the rename is that there are many other game pages which list the name as the full game title. And since there are technically two different games which use the Warcraft III name (Reign of Chaos and The Frozen Throne), this would allow a clean separation between the two. Warcraft III would redirect to Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos so there wouldn't be a problem there. And Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos would make reference to its expansion Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne so I don't think there would be a need for a disambiguation page. My justification for splitting out the TFT stuff in the current War3 page into it's own page is that like dwp mentions above, there truly is a ton of stuff that is different between the two games. There are massive amounts of new features, units, and interface changes. (Note also the comment below about balance changes between the two) We don't want to clutter the War3 page with two differing versions of the various information. In regards to Frecklefoots comment that they are not big enough subjects, I contend that they are big enough subjects, and I have volunteered to flesh out the pages with information and images. Anyways, since no one has responded to this question for about a year (and the "voting" is now 3 to 1), barring any objections, I will go forward with this action in a few days. x3rx3s 07:06, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

No. I like having one master Warcraft III page, a sort of "portal" to the major WCIII content on Wikipedia. But, I do like the idea of having separate pages describing each multiplayer campaign. That would help to make the main page shorter and less overwhelming for casual readers.Csc14us 08:39, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Frozen Throne needs its own page. The Warcraft 3 page is so long as it is already, plus so much needs to be added to both the WC3 and TFT sections we should make them separate pages.Spazm 17:42, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] balance

It's also important to note that Reign of Chaos and the Frozen Throne have significant balance differences. The attack type versus armor type is completely different for each version, and this changes strategies for each.

they are both 40 patches away from a decent balance and you want to state that theres even a balance there. The only differences is that in ROC: UD doesnt build slaughterhouses, the gem of true sight is sold at markets, the UD town hall supertower actually matters (and not uber-nerfed as in TFT), the game is slower and the maps are different also. Nothing more than that (their armors might look different, but they are the same, the names are different, thats all).

[edit] Merge material

Could someone please merge the following content with this article? Thanks. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 16:54, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Sylvannas Windrunner is a fictional character introduced in the Blizzard game Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos. She was the leader of the elven defenders of Quel'Thalas, who initally fought against the Death Knight and former Prince of the Kingdom of Lordaeron, Arthas Menethil. Her forces were driven back through the three elfgates by the merciless Undead and she finally fell outside the elven capital. Despite her pleas for a quick death, Arthas raised her as a banshee after slaying her. She is not seen again in the game, and acts as a normal unit but with a different name during that mission.

Sylvannas reappears in Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne in the first mission of the Undead campaign. She has been upgraded to a Dark Ranger, a hero unit. She assists Arthas in his return, slaughteirng the hapless humans as they try to escape from their villages. Shortly after this mission, Arthas's powers begin to fail, and his grasp over her mind dissapears. Sylvannas and some of her fellow freed banshees plots a trap and attempts to assasinate Arthas outside the fallen city of Loredaeron, but their attempt is foiled by the Lich Kel'Thuzad. The remainder of the Undead mirrors both her rise to power and destruction of the Dreadlords in the Plaguelands, and Arthas's flight to the Frozen Throne to defend the Lich King against the assault of Illidan.

In her war against the Dreadlord, Sylvannas recruits many of the residents of the countryside. Included are gnolls, ogres and bandits; all conviently placed to be possessed by banshees. The greatest addition to her army is Varimthras, a Dreadlord who promised his loyalty in return for his life. As well, nearing the end of her campgain she was able to enilst the aid of an Alliance squad of humans, led by the Grand Marshal Garithos. Using Varimthras's knowledge she launched at double headed attack on the base of the Dreadlord Balnazzar at Lordaeron. It finilized with her ordering Varimathras to kill Balnazzar as a final test of his loyalty. As well she betrayed Garithos, having Varimthras kill him too. With this victory she proclaimed herself and the freed Undead the Forsaken, and took up residence in the Ruins of Lordaeron, eventually transforming it into the Undercity.

In World of Warcraft she is the leader of Undead forces, still called The Forsaken. She and Varimathras lead from The Undercity, after allying themsleves with Thrall and The Horde to war against the Alliance. What else has occurred in the years between the end of The Frozen Throne and World of Warcraft is still shrouded in mystery, however.

The text has been added to list of Warcraft characters. —Lowellian (talk)[[]] 03:59, Nov 14, 2004 (UTC)

one part of the newest diff rubs me the wrong way... about night elf not harvesting lumber efficiently. while i could see how that could be true, don't night elf players end up having an excess of wood over most players or is that just me?

Yes, because they don't run out of trees and/or have to harvest trees really far away from buildings. – ugen64 02:50, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Custom Maps

There are 2 internal links to Defense of the Ancient. DOTA and DotA, the first is complete in my opinion. The material in those is enough for a different article. --vininim 03:38, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I believe that a link to the official Battle.net custom game section would be appropriate for this section. Also, the comment about Defense of the Ancients in this section "Defense of the Ancients -very popular among weaker warcraft players" is a POV statement which I believe should be deleted. First, no comment about any other map in this section makes a POV derogatory reference towards a player's skill. Secondly, DOTA is much more complicated than many of the other custom map types in this section, such as dodgeball or sheep tag. If any comment should be made, it should either be that DOTA is the most popular custom map variant, or that DOTA Allstars was the first map to be inducted into blizzard's Battle.net hall of fame.

This section needs to calm down. If you want to add more custom maps, make a case for why they should be included. This article needs a re-write badly and almost none of the custom maps should be mention, save DotA. Even then, the vast majority of people contributing to multi-player articles need to learn how to write better.

[edit] Regarding War3 Units

I just wanted some feedback on whether or not we should either merge the existing unit articles (Crypt Fiend, Dragonhawk Rider, etc) with the umbrealla articles (Undead Scourge, Human Alliance, etc) and give a synapse of the units there or we compile a list of all the units (I wouldn't mind doing this) and put them in their own sub categories. -Derktar 02:17, May 8, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] ETS

Although Enfo's Team Survival has my name on it. Most versions out there are not created by me. I created the initial versions and concept, but haven't worked on it in two years. -Enfo

[edit] Custom maps list

I've just cleaned up (i.e. removed most of the superfluous comments) and alphabetized the list of custom maps. It may need more work, though; I'm not sure every map listed there is exactly popular (some I've never heard of), and there are undoubtedly some more popular types unlisted. Many also don't have associated pages. Heptameron 19:06, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

I added some genre descriptions for some of the popular map types, I would have put the corresponding maps under thei right genre but I'm out of time. -DungeonM

I would suggest moving this entire section to it's own article, right now it's just makes the WC3 article heavy. Havok (T/C/c) 11:18, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I removed some biased comments and cleaned it up by removing some derivative maps (such as Dracula's Curse which derives from Vampirism). Also added a few others, such as Pyramid Escape and Spellcraft, which, while not common at the moment, were rather popular a year or two back. 203.59.240.222 13:30, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mergeing Dragonhawk Rider, Witch Doctor and Pandaren Brewmaster

Unofficial vote of Merge, Keep, Delete

[edit] Pandaren Brewmaster

Firstly we have a section already on the Pandaren race at Races in the Warcraft universe this is exclusively an article on the Warcraft III unit. Personally I think the article should be deleted with a redirect, but if someone wants to make a section in the Warcraft III article about all the Warcraft III units themselves, then here is the opportunity. Personally I think thats its unnecessary, but by all means offer your oppinion. - UnlimitedAccess 06:38, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

personally i think we should just make a section on the units in Warcraft

[edit] Witch Doctor

Same as above but with no Redirect, because 99% of the people who type in "Witch Doctor" shouldnt find themselves at the Warcraft III page. :) - UnlimitedAccess 06:38, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Delete. :-) --Ihope127 21:16, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dragonhawk Rider

The dragonhawk rider is not important enough to have its own article and isnt a notable group or race that appears in the Warcraft Lore so I think doesnt even belong in Races in the Warcraft universe or Organizations in the Warcraft universe. - UnlimitedAccess 06:38, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Agree. Dragonhawk riders are very minor members of the Warcraft universe. I was kind of surprised myself to see it listed under Warcraft organizations ... --Arabani 07:00, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Well im just trying depserate to get rid of these three articles, I first thought I could do that by merging them with Warcraft Organizations... but changed my mind, I may remove it... - UnlimitedAccess

Yeah, just delete them. I don't think Wikipedia needs articles on units from a game ... a article on ALL of Warcraft III's units would probably be fine, but definitely not separate articles for each. --Arabani 19:50, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

--user:Dr khan of the universaty of sudenims they are the most yousles unint in the intire game the orc peons or the night elf druid of the claw are beter18:52

[edit] Art Tools and other modding apps

it seems this article didnt have any information about the blizzard art tools or even a good expansion on the world editor. I added a section about modding that includes these, but im not sure about the grammar/wording of it...--ThrashedParanoid 02:16, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Undead Campaign

I'm pretty sure the city destroyed in the Undead campaign was not Trisfal, the Human capital, but instead the capital of Dalaran, a nation boardering Lordereon.

I thought Dalaran was the wizard's city

Dalaran is more of a city-state than an actual nation, I believe. And yes, you're right, it was the wizard's city. The Undead did indeed destroy Dalaran in the campaign. --Arabani 23:43, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I believe Mannoroth destroyed it with his Demon Magic.

Negative. It was Archimonde who used his magic to destroy it. --Kaziel 22:57, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Overview?

What happened to the overview? It disappeared a week or two ago. Is there any reason for me not to restore it? --Polkapunk 19:16, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, please restore it. It appears to be a work of vandalism that no one reverted: [1]. --Muchness 19:35, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quotations

Hi! Is it true that one of the Dwarf characters in Warcraft 3 can be made to say 'This Warhammer cost me 40K!', in reference to the two Games Workshop main universes - which may or may not have had some influence over both Warcraft and Starcraft? And if so, would it be a relevant quote and context to add to the article? --Nerroth 18:37, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

• I seem to remember hearing something like that by a Gryohon Rider, but I'm not sure. I don't believe that any quotes are really relevant, but add this one if you wish.- Discombobulator^talk 07:15, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

A section on quotations could go on indefinitely, especially with the recent addition about the Ice Trolls. I'm not even sure if it's true. We should shorten it down to just saying that Blizzard likes including quotes, with one example, and be done with it. Really useful and accurate information could then be moved over to the WoWWiki since Wikipedia doesn't really need to have all these quotes in it. --Htmlism 14:56, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of lingo used on Battle.net

Re this edit: I removed the list of Battle.net lingo because lists of definitions are not appropriate according to WP:NOT policy. If the consensus is that this list is needed, it should be relocated to the Battle.net article. --Muchness 18:49, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More merges

I stumbled across Defense of the Ancients and Defense of the Ancients: Allstars, which are extensive gaming guides to mods of Warcraft III. Obviously, Wikipedia is not the place for detailed gaming guides. I also scratched my head over why the articles existed in the first place. I would recommend that any useful information from those articles be added to Custom Maps section and the original articles deleted. --Habap 17:52, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, no. When I looked at the custom maps list, I see there are like 20 articles on WCIII maps. This can't be real. --Habap 17:55, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I do really think that Dota Allstars shall be separated article. It's much more popular then Warcraft itself. If you like to merge, let merge Warcraft to Dota but not vice a verca 80.242.64.3 10:58, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Surely you can't be serious. --Habap 14:41, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

The thought of merging an entire game's article into an article on a custom map seems ridiculous, to say the least. However, merging all these custom map articles into the Warcraft III article makes much more sense. --Arabani (Talk ∞ Contribs) 17:53, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Dota should get a seperate article, because it is popular enough. However, all of these custom map articles are ridiculous.--Kopaka649 00:59, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I've posted a comment on the Warcraft Portal talk page about this. Those articles are so detailed and unencyclopedic, yet there are dozens of them. I hesitate to comment as the two articles I mention are only the tiop of an iceberg. Isn't there a WC wiki out there somewhere that all this could be transwiki-ed to? --Habap 15:23, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I do not think this article is the right place to put them. I suggest a paragraph here, explaining the populatrity of custom maps, with a "see more" link to a custom maps article. --Falcorian ^(talk) 17:12, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Dota is quite popular Warcraft III mod (I am saying mod, and not the map, as I feel it describes it better), more popular than many other games that have seperate articles. Grujah

DotA, while being a mod to Warcraft III, is played instead of it's parent game on many international tournemants, and has in some ways overshadowed the original game. Certain other widely played mods (EotA comes to mind) should stay, too, but most of the other articles should be deleted, and the red letter list of custom maps pruned. - Discombobulator^talk 10:33, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Merging DotA with Warcraft III seems to be like merging Counter-Strike with Half-Life... both are extremely popular mods that dominated WON/Bnet/Steam servers. xertnevnI 10:10, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree with xertnevnI. DotA has eclipsed normal Warcraft in terms of popularity on Battle.net servers. They should not be merged. asphyxe8 09:18, 11 April 2006, (UTC)

OK, I have removed the merge tags. The articles are, however, not referenced and I'm pretty sure that none of this information has been posted anywhere else. If that is the case, it is all original research and doesn't belong in an encyclopedia. Of course, if we can find links that verify the information and include them in the articles (even if we just start with links to forum posts on the game), then we can keep everything. There is a fair amount of work to be done here. Also, it may be prudent to remove some of the articles on custom maps that really are not notable. --Habap 11:39, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Time

One part says a game of Warcraft takes 30 minutes, while Starcraft taking seven to eight minutes and warcraft can take an hour. this should be removed because it has nothing to do with the article, i have played many 2hour starcraft games, and some people play longer or shorter.

[edit] Tactics, shouldn't be there...?

I get the idea that the Tactics subsection isn't important for the article, and as Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a game guide... Maybe it should be deleted? Torte 07:37, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I aggree with you

[edit] Warcraft Custom Maps

I think there should be an article for Warcraft Custom Maps as it is a major feature of the game, sometimes rivaling the popularity of the original maps created by Blizzard in online play. Recently many articles have been put up for deletion due to notability and verification concerns. I think that there should be a custom map article giving information about custom maps. This would cut down on the Warcraft III article size, as well as negate the need for entire articles on maps that can be explained in a paragraph or two. See some discussion admist the comments on the most recent afdl for Footmen Wars. Altair 17:43, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Custom Maps Section Significance

The custom maps section should elaborate on the scripting and modding capabilities built into the games which are basically unseen in any other game (or anything, for that matter). The game's built in modding system itself allows for the creation of new and innovative games and even non-game systems and simulations, even with the ability to change models and artwork.

The individual map type sections are clunky and somewhat unfitting in the article and should probably be only mentioned as examples or in elaboration of the trends of maps that have been created in Warcraft. If seen fit, a seperate article detailing the major map and game types should be created, but a detailed list of them is not fitting here, even for just a few types. The system that allows for the creation of the maps that have already been made is much more significant than anything that has yet been made with it and should definitely be detailed in this article. Serialized 18:44, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Advanced Melee AI

There was a recent edit by 194.250.20.206 to include a link to a website which is about advancing the AI in Warcraft. I'm not sure this merits inclusion. I'm not removing it, yet. Currently looking up policies about the threshold for external links.--Htmlism 20:37, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Upon review of the website in question, I've decided that the link should be kept. The website seems to be a valuable resource, albeit for a specific part of the game. Only the link text and description were cleaned up.--Htmlism 21:31, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of some external links

I went ahead and removed some of the external links which did not need to be here. Wikipedia isn't a link farm. Links should be kept to a minimum. Bgold4 12:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)