Talk:Wallace & Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit

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Wallace and Gromit buffs should scrutinize the Wikipedia entry on The Wrong Trousers for an insight into the potential profundity of Nick Park's master creation. Or has Wallace and Gromit just become mainstream with age, or since they sold out to Hollywood? Watch this space and the discussion page on The Wrong Trousers! 18:02, 3 September 2005 (UTC)PaulRichmond

Contents

[edit] Is the "how to prepare" section encyclopedic?

I appreciate the enthusiasm and intentions of the "how to prepare" section, but is it really encyclopedic? A discussion of whether "The Wrong Trousers" is a political satire a) probably doesn't belong on the "Curse of the Were-Rabbit" page, and b) seems to me to veer awfully close to original research. Not that the discussion doesn't have merit: I'm just not sure it belongs here. Josiah Rowe 13:02, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I'm going to be bold and remove the section. Here it is, if anyone wants to defend it:
==How to prepare yourself for Wallace and Gromit's new adventure==
It's not long now before we all have a chance to see how Wallace and Gromit will fare in their first feature-length film outing. You would do well to review Wikipedia's entry on The Wrong Trousers before you view their new escapade. A lot of things have come to light recently, and within the The Wrong Trousers may be lurking a brilliant allegory and political satire - the new Animal Farm?
Do Nick Park and his team have some hidden meanings up their sleaves? Don't rely on them to announce any - they haven't publicly acknowledged that The Wrong Trousers may have a deeper meaning.
You should wonder why.

(moved by 13:27, 4 September 2005 (UTC))Josiah Rowe

[edit] Reply to Josiah Rowe from PaulRichmond

I contend that you have been a tad too bold: The Curse of the Wererabbit is shortly to be released, and devoted Wallace and Gromit fans will stream in to see it. The monied interests behind the film will ensure creating enough hype to whet their appetites and attract new devotees. The Curse of the Wererabbit is thus "endorsed" by the Wallace and Gromit "brand", so to speak. Your boldness is preventing the public from scrutinising that brand. The Wrong Trousers more than any other work established the Wallace and Gromit brand, and many parents will only too happily take their kids to see Wallace's and Gromit's new adventure, firmly believing in the innocence of this dynamic duo. But would they have been quite so happy at letting their kids see The Wrong Trousers if they had known that it was not just an Oscar- endorsed animation but also a political satire that contained racial puns and stereotypes? I'm not saying that The Wrong Trousers is racist. In fact, I think that the hidden messages in The Wrong Trousers are extremely complex and deserve serious academic and public scrutiny. I also think that The Wrong Trousers deserves viewing anew, viewers having been forwarned that it might actually be a be an allegory and a political satire, thus allowing them to "interconnect" the myriard of symbols, allusions, puns etc and establish, perhaps a new meaning or interpretation - and quite probably a quite unexpected renewed affection for this work. The viewing public needs to be warned that there may be more in the Wallace and Gromit brand than meets the eye. They need to be given the choice. They can then make up their respective minds themselves. I am therefore putting my "warning" back to where it was, so that the public has a better possibilty of making an informed choice. Of course, The Curse of the Wererabbit may be perfectly innocent, but until it goes on general release, we have only the word of those who are seeking to make money from it about what it may contain. The public are unlikely to go here, to the discussion page, and so the information needs to be on the article page.PaulRichmond 15:00, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Your points are well taken as topics for discussion. However, I'm still not convinced that that discussion belongs on the article page, unless the questions have already been raised in some other outlet. Your stated purpose above is "to warn the public", "to give the viewing public the choice" and to promote "serious academic and public scrutiny." I don't think that Wikipedia is meant to be the venue for any of those purposes, laudable as they may be. The purpose of Wikipedia isn't to promote individual viewpoints or opinions: see here, here and here. Specifically, I'm thinking of the following from Wikipedia:No original research:
The phrase "original research" in this context refers to untested theories; data, statements, concepts and ideas that have not been published in a reputable publication; or any new interpretation, analysis, or synthesis of published data, statements, concepts or ideas that, in the words of Wikipedia's founder Jimbo Wales, would amount to a "novel narrative or historical interpretation".
I think that discussion of Wallace and Gromit as a political or social satire qualifies as a "new interpretation, analysis, or synthesis" (unless, of course, these themes have been raised elsewhere, in a reputable publication).
If the points you raise have been published somewhere else, it would be appropriate to mention it — on the Wrong Trousers and Wallace and Gromit pages, with the relevant citation. For a good example of Wikipedia treatment of the serious or academic aspects of a pop-culture creation, you might want to have a look at the main Buffy the Vampire Slayer page and the well-cited Buffy the Vampire Slayer and social issues. —Josiah Rowe 16:17, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Not wanting to flame or anything, but I think the political interpretations of 'The Wrong Trousers' need to be taken with a pinch of salt. Having read them, they sound more like the interpretations of people with too much time on their hand rather than them being the intention of the film maker. You can often read too much into things, you know! Philmein 15:22 GMT, 17th January 2006.

[edit] His hair claims?

I haven't seen the film yet (it hasn't opened here), so I've got to ask: "his hair claims to be a wig"? Really? Does the hairpiece speak, or have a tag on it saying "I AM A WIG" or something? I'd not put it past Nick Park to do something like this...—Josiah Rowe 04:49, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

It does fall off at one point, leading to the line: Wallace: What do you want? Victor: Toupee! Wallace: Well, we take cash or cheques... smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 11:52, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Title

According to [http:www.wandg.com the official website], the name of the film is Wallace & Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit. I tried to move the page to that name, but the wiki software wouldn't let me, since that page has a (small) history. Should I put it on the requested moves page, or is there a kind admin who can do it without the formal procedure? —Josiah Rowe 20:35, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

According to the IMDb, it's Wallace & Gromit in The Curse of the Were-Rabbit, but then they're a bit over-literal sometimes. That is exactly as it appears on screen (with a page flip in the middle), but I'd settle for a colon instead of in. --KJBracey 14:36, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Some Other Gags

When I saw the film a few weeks ago I observed a few other gags. The first one is the name of the policeman, PC Mackintosh, which is a take on PC's and Apple Macintoshes. When Victor goes to the Vicar to find out about the Were-Rabbit the Vicar says "Look at the book on it" (or something to that effect), Victor then looks down at the table to see a magazine called "Nun-wrestling" before the Victor hastily turns round and moves it. While the ending credits roll you see many rabbits fly around the screen. At the very end you see the clichéd phrase "No animals were harmed in the production of this film" and just after that comes up on the screen one of the flying bunny rabbits knocks its head on the phrase!

[edit] Spoiler removed

Forgive me for being so bold, but I've removed a spoiler from Philip's character section. Placing the Characters sections after the Plot section is, in my honest opinion, a poor idea- people wanting to get a small idea of the movie without having seen it may want to know the characters that are in it without actually knowing their involvement in the final 20 minutes of the film. Without wanting to sound arrogant, surely spoilers need to be marked, particularly when the Plot section doesn't actually mention the scene in question. Actually, I think the Plot section of all 4 W&G films' wikis need some serious revision. I'd be willing to do just that if nobody else fancies giving it a shot. --L T Dangerous 20:47, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

This is the film's true name, according to its posters and website. Requires admin assistance, because Wallace & Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit has an edit history.

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~
  • Support per nomination —Josiah Rowe 23:22, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Support KJBracey 17:27, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments

I don't know whether we really need to go through the formal moving procedure, since this move should be uncontroversial, but here it is just in case. —Josiah Rowe 09:10, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

It's worth pointing out that the IMDb has it as Wallace & Gromit in The Curse of the Were-Rabbit, but they go from the opening titles of the movie, not the posters. I don't mind either way. sjorford #£@%&$?! 15:27, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

You'll also find that they've just renamed all the shorts in a similar vein ("A Grand Day Out with Wallace and Gromit"; "Wallace & Gromit in The Wrong Trousers"), partly at my prompting. But they're a film database, and very, very literal about onscreen titles. Even last week they were still trying to decide between "Kill Bill: Vol. 2" and just "Vol. 2". (Now locked at the former - only "Vol. 2" appears on screen, but the Bride says "Kill Bill" in voiceover just before it. And a spoken title counts.)
But for our purposes, an encyclopædia, even if online, is effectively a print medium, and should use the normal print title, rather than any on-screen shenanigans. --KJBracey 17:38, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
At a guess, I'd chance that the reason for only "Vol. 2" in Kill Bill is for ease of special-edition-uber-extra-long-conjoined-DVD-version assembly. But we're straying ... Current title seems sensible. Chris talk back 22:40, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Is that an Oppose vote? (I've just added my vote, 'cause I just realized that it might not be clear that I was the nominator. I was once told that "you can't vote for your own move request", but I don't know if that's really a rule or not. —Josiah Rowe 23:22, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Eh? I thought it had already been done? Am I missing something in the title somewhere? Chris talk back 01:45, 28 October 2005 (UTC) To answer my own question, it appears I misread the whole vote, and missed the lack of The in the current title. Make that a Support. 01:48, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Notes" section

I've removed the "Notes" section added by an anon user. Most of the entries were unremarkable plot points, and several were already covered in the article. I don't think the section was really very encyclopedic, but I've retained it here, in case anyone disagrees.


[edit] Notes

  • Lord Victor Quartermaine and his dog Philip hates the Anti-Pesto.
  • Gromit discovers that Wallace is the Were-Rabbit, after the footprints did Gromit found leads to Wallace's room, and Wallace's bed is full of vegetables.
  • Wallace and Gromit uses the BV6000 at the Anti-Pesto van if there are too many rabbits to clear.
  • Quartermaine had found out that in order to kill the Were-Rabbit is to use golden bullets.
  • Wallace had found out that the mind manipulation can solve the garden problems.
  • Pansy Spray hurts Quartermaine's eyes.
  • Victor had found out that the golden bullets doesn't improve of killing the Were-Rabbit. So, he uses the golden carrot trophy to kill the Were-Rabbit.

[Edit] Not true, he simply ran out of bullets. Victor: I need more golden bullets! (while shakeing the vicar) Vicar: They don't come cheap you know

  • Everyone has an Anti-Pesto alarm to alert Wallace and Gromit if there are rabbits attacking their gardens.
  • At the night, Wallace had a plan to catch the Were-Rabbit is to use a decoy
  • At the Giant Vegetable Competiton, Quartermaine orders one of the clients of the Anti-Pesto to use one of the giant vegetable to lure the Were-Rabbit.

[Edit] Again not true, he just says that the rabbit will come to the fair because there are vegitables there.

  • At Lady Tottington's garden, it is revealed that Lord Victor Quartermaine says to Wallace to get away from his future wife.
  • At the rooftop of Lady Tottington's house, Quartermaine confronts Wallace, while his dog, Philip confronts Gromit by using toy-planes.
  • Gromit tells Wallace that he was the Were-Rabbit, but Wallace doesn't believe him. So, Gromit shows Wallace at the basement that Hutch, one of the rabbits did he and Wallace capture likes cheese while Wallace likes vegetables.
  • Victor Quartermaine uses a rifle for hunting.
  • Lady Tottington asks Wallace to call her "Totty".
  • Gromit is the hero in this movie.
  • It is revealed that Victor's dog, Philip has coins in his wallet.

[edit] reference question

is there any rabbit movie they didn't refrence, besides "night of the lepus"?


[edit] Necessity of "References, in-jokes, goofs, and mistakes" Section?

This section (or anyway, much of the material therein) seems a bit extraneous. It's as if we're trying to document every single joke in the movie and explain why they are funny. I was hoping to get some discussion started on whether or not we should at least do some trimming on that section, or perhaps remove it altogether. Any thoughts? Boxclocke"!" 22:28, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I suppose I've grudgingly come around to the conclusion that it should be left, after finding a similar list on the page for the equally gag-laden film Airplane!. It still seems strangely extraneous. Boxclocke - "!" 08:27, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

One of them is wrong anyway. The one about "Run Rabbit Run" being a "clear reference to Dark Side of the Moon" seems a little odd, considering "Run Rabbit Run" is originally from a childrens nursery rhyme. I removed it.

There isn't anyone who can get all the jokes so a list of them should be availible for reading after you've seen the film. Although it should be moved to another article in my opinion.

Leave it. If we can have articles on movies with Historical Innaccuracies (see Pearl Harbor (film) for a noteable example) and even trivia on other films, it's worth saving. Besides, it's a movie where kids can get entertained, and adults can giggle at some of the in-jokes.

One joke that I didn't see mentioned in the article: The planes that Gromit and Philip "fly" are replicas of the Sopwith Camel and the Red Baron's Fokker triplane, possibly in reference to Snoopy's fantasies as a WWI flying ace. Willbyr 01:52, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

The jokes and popular culture references should be left, but it would be good if they could be integrated into the summary of the movie or into a new article, rather than being left as an indiscriminate collection of information. --Gray Porpoise 00:41, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mackintosh reference

Quit editing the section to reference the computer. If it was meant to be an injoke to the computer, the spelling would reflect this. The spelling and the character reflects the Mackintosh raincoat.

  • Another reference has been added to the article. Willbyr 04:17, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Doesn't the first name PC make it pretty obvious it is a reference to the Macintosh computer and Windows PCs? 17 March 2006

It could also stand for Police Constable and the the raincoat identified above. Since it's not completely clear it's referencing either or, that piece of trivia should not be entered unless verifiable proof can be produced to substantiate either claim, as it's already adding space to an already huge article. Same goes for other ones with questionable references.--293.xx.xxx.xx 07:00, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Please also read Wikipedia:Citing_sources for further info. --293.xx.xxx.xx 07:03, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changes

I've made a few changes to the main page, namely removing the 'end of spoiler' warning as there are some major spoilers detailed below it; altering the fact about Hutch (he says 'mmm.... Monterary Jack, which is not in any of the other films) and adjusting the fact about Totty. It's a slang word but it's not rude! Philmein 15:24 GMT, 17th January 2006

[edit] The Vicar wasn't attacked

My problem is with this part of the 'References, in-jokes, goofs, and mistakes' section: "The vicar, in one scene, is attacked by the Were-rabbit, yet he himself never transforms at the full moon, which is what is believed to happen if an individual survives an attack of any were-animal." The were-rabbit doesn't lay a finger on him. He eats the veggies on the alter and the 'cross' the Vicar holds up, but doesn't touch the Vicar himself. Therefore there wouldn't be any reason to expect the Vicar to transform as well. 4.153.235.201 21:56, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Invisible Man ref?

Does anyone else think that P.C. Mackintosh looks like he's a read ringer for E.E. Clive as P.C. Jaffers in 1933's The Invisible Man?

Personally, I think the entire section has gone way outta hand. Excluding obvious ones, and the ones I noted from the artbook, many of them seem either silly, or needs a stretch of the imagination to figure out. I think it needs to be sheared. --293.xx.xxx.xx 08:33, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree, but the Mackintosh-Jaffers resemblance seems to be fairly obvious in my opinion. One look at a picture of E.E. Clive as Jaffers and I didn't need to even employ my imagination. Now, what would be a stretch is saying Reverend Clement Hedges looks similar to Dr. Septimus Pretorius in The Bride of Frankenstein. In Mackintosh's case the resemblance makes perfect sense, so I ask that it remain, if only as a speculative "By the way" kind of thing. - Kooshmeister

It's not exactly your contribution, it's some of the other ones. I already deleted a trivia entry that sparked a minor edit war a month or so ago due to the contributors either not meeting halfway, or more of a "I'm right, your wrong!!" type of mentality to see who has the bigger e-penis. Another trivia entry cites 3 possible sources for it's reference. And some of them really are a stretch of the imagination if you think about it. I'm just ready to start pruning since it's pretty much comprising close to 40% of the article layout.--293.xx.xxx.xx 09:16, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

All right, that makes sense. I agree that quite a lot of that stuff needs to go, and I'd personally limit it to just stuff revealed in the book (which I admit I have not read) or on the extra features on the DVD. Prune away, although I should just mention that I recently watched the "Cracking Commentary" on the DVD, and during the town meeting at the church they mention "the skeptical policeman" in The Invisible Man. They never actually come right out and say they mean Jaffers, or that Mackintosh was inspired by him, though. Still, I figured I'd mention this anyway. - Kooshmeister

I'm in the process of reviewing the movie, and taking notes. So far, at least 5 of them will be pruned.--293.xx.xxx.xx 08:21, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lord Of The Rings Reference

"This will be a night to remember" is a line in the movie The Fellowship Of The Ring at Bilbo's party. Blue Leopard 18:54, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ben Hur reference?

Did anyone else think the dog race at the end was a parody of the Ben Hur chariot race? Cribananda 03:52, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

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