Talk:Voz de Aztlán

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Voz de Aztlán falls under the scope of WikiProject Mexican-Americans, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Mexican-Americans on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to Mexican-Americans as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Mexican-Americans. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

Contents 1 Wording 2 Article needs to be re-written 3 POV tag 4 Problems 5 FBI Raid?

[edit] Wording

There has been some back and forth in the phrasing of the warning on the external link. Having looked over the website, it appears to me to be primarily anti-Israel/pro-Palestine rather than anti-semitic. I urge other editors to actually look at the site before changing the text. The warning may be unnecessary and should probably be removed anyway. -Willmcw 07:02, Mar 16, 2005 (UTC)

The site has numerous overtly anti-Semitic references. For one example, take a look at the political cartoon at the bottom of this page, which has also appeared on numerous neo-Nazi websites and includes a number of typical anti-Semitic caricatures. This article talks more generally about how "local Jews in the USA" are behind all manner of things, including Monica Lewinsky. --Delirium 06:41, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

You've probalby spent more time mucking around the site than I have. I defer to your view. An external view would be the most useful. -Willmcw 09:31, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

I think I'm quite external, in that I have no reason to be biased in favour of the "they're anti-Semites" view if we consider that I am anti-Zionist and that people like SlimVirgin, Jayjg and Mel Etitis are convinced that I am an anti-Semite myself.

Looking at that website, I'd say that some legitimate concerns about Zionist bullying are expressed, but that there are several points at which they go beyond such legitimate criticisms and go into the realm of generalising about all Jews, and accepting paranoid conspiracy theories without question.

Though I reject the term "anti-Semitic" as meaningless, I'd say that these people are to some extent racist against Jews. (Much as it galls me to agree with the scum of the Defamation League.) — Chameleon 12:57, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I too am loathe to agree with basically anything trotted out by the ADL, since I think they're a bunch of raving lunatics, but the Voz de Aztlan really does permit themselves to be used as a voice for antisemitism, even if they don't actively take antisemitic stances. The fact that original accusation in this comes from the Voz de Aztlan doesn't even mildly surprise me, having reviewed a number of their other "contributions" to the intellectual betterment of the world. Tomer ^TALK 03:33, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Article needs to be re-written

The article is vague about aztlan.net. It's shouldn't only read things like "ADL claims" this or "ADL claims" that.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.94.86.164 (talk • contribs).

This is true, the article should be about Voz de Aztlan not about who claims what about them. Maybe there should be a seperate article for critique of Voz De Aztlan.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.18.220.187 (talk • contribs).

It's not hard to find the anti-semitic views on this site. 1. There is an article with the headline "Those nefarious Jews at it again". 2. They have the "Protocols of the learned elders of Zion" (which has proven to have been ripped off) posted on their site to poison minds about a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. 3. There is a section of their site dedicated to female Palestinian suicide bombers. They are repeatedly praised as martyrs...even those who killed innocent children. 4. There is an article about a young child who wrote "Toten Den Jewden" (misspelled kill the jews in german) in a yearbook, afterwards which parents complained but were unsuccessful in convincing the school board to remove the statement from the year books. The people at aztlan.net are then quoted as saying something to effect of "even the children are sick of them now". Statements like these are not ambiguous. La Voz de Aztlan is quite upfront about their hatred of Jews. Furthermore, in another article, (http://www.aztlan.net/eradicate_israel.htm) Hector Carreon, the editor, calls for Israel to be destroyed and all Jews to be shipped the moon. Nah! Not anti-semitic there...right?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.94.86.164 (talk • contribs).

Wrong! Please reread - The author of the article is quoting others.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.18.220.187 (talk • contribs).

This article needs to be re-written to refer to La Voz de Aztlan as blatantly racist and not just "ADL claims" is racist. I hate the ADL but truth is truth and these guys are racist psychos. If ever there was a group which needed to be investigated for assisting terrorists in America, they are it (Especially since they have another article comparing Osama Bin Laden to Poncho Villa and praising him as some sort of revolutionary). Also, FYI. They are not only racist against Jews but whites as well as they constantly use ethnic slurs when referring to them.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.94.86.164 (talk • contribs).

I agree with your views on Voz but wikipedia is not here to make a judgement on an organization. It is merely to give an article consisting of many points of view. It's sad that Mecha's article is vandalized on a regular basis and crap like the reconquista article is spewed forth when the Voz organization article is just a stub. These guys are the real holders of radical ideas like separatism. There's a difference between fighting against the oppression of a society that rewards a chosen few and becoming the hispanic equivalent of Save our state. I would put Voz in the category of the latter. Mosquito-001 15:46, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV tag

OK to remove now? And what about the merger? The two articles overlap substantially...--Rockero 20:57, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd second the merger. From all I've seen there is little difference between the news outlet and the group. Both are headed by/written by the same individuals. Lucky Adrastus 03:33, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I removed the POV tag, since there doesn't seem to be any objection. Any editor who thinks it should be put back, please comment. Lucky Adrastus 09:22, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Problems

The sentence "La Voz de Aztlán as alleged to have ties with the pro-Chicano Chicano group MEChA, although MEChA claims no affiliation with the Nation of Aztlán" was one of the ones I excised in my rewrite. Who alleges that MEChA is tied to La Voz? Where? Short of any proof, the sentence is just an blind accusation, and ought not to be included. And someone has also restored the sentence "The SPLC and the Anti-Defamation League make slurs against Voz de Aztlán" -- the word "slurs" is POV. It suffices to say that they are accused, labeled, or criticized. Other incidents have come and gone from the article, some of which are noteworthy. The "Kosher Nostra" article, the "Jewish pornographer" accusations, and the controversy over an exhibit by artist Alma Lopez (which has yet to be included) are all examples. I am willing to expand and improve the article, but can we discuss major changes and these additions and restorations here on the talkpage first? Thanks, --Rockero 09:55, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I made some relatively minor edits that address what appear to be anti-SPLC and anti-ADL POV changes by previous editor(s). As for allegations of connections to MECHA, here is a link to a post on Instapundit, a popular conservative blog that conflated the two groups, and then in further updates alternativly heightened or backpedaled from that conflation. http://instapundit.com/archives/011273.php There seems to be a lot of confusion on this issue, which a good Wikipedia entry could possibly alleviate. Lucky Adrastus 00:12, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FBI Raid?

Is there any source for the paragraph about an FBI raid of Voz de Aztlan regarding an article about Juba? If not, I think it should be removed. Lucky Adrastus 06:14, 14 May 2006 (UTC)