Talk:Vor of Barrayar

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clarification on titles would be of value. It seems to be that barring their being a count of a family name, the senior male member is known as Lord Vor(name). In the case the family includes a count, the Lord is the the heir to the senior male member. Lower members seem to be known simply as Lord (First Name) -- such as Lord Carl and Lord Mark.

Women only bear titles of Countess Vor(name) or Lady Vor(name) by virtue of marriage. The wife of Count Vor(name) is titled Countess Vor(name) and the wife of Lord Vor(name) is titled Lady Vor(name). This can be seen with Countess Vorkosigan and Lady Vorpatril (note: it is unclear how dowager status is handled, but from the example of the Vorpatril's, it appears that when Ivan marries both his wife and mother will be titled Lady Vorpatril, with perhaps some use of the term dowager. This seems consistent with an idea that one can gain status, but not lose it.)

Vor women who are not married to a Count or Lord appear to all be titled Lady (First Name). As a point of clarification, the First Name referenced is the woman's own name rather than her that of her husband or father. This titling convention is true even if she is the eldest or only child of a Count as is seen in Lady Donna's title, though Lord Dono is a little confusing.

Do you mean unmarried women? Ekaterin's style (before she marries Miles) is "Madame Vorsoissons". —Tamfang 05:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Questions: 1. Ivan is referred to as "Lord Ivan" rather than Lord Vorpatril in some occasions. Is this a product of familiarity as with Lady Cassia, or is Lord Vorpatril in fact the error? Official contexts such as the treason trial in Warrior's Apprentice seem to label him Lord Vorpatril and this is consistent with his father, so the former seems more likely.

2. Based on comments from Mark, it seems that while addressing a Lord Vor(name) as Lord (First Name) is appropriate in soem personal contexts, it is never appropriate to address a Lord (First Name) as Lord Vor(name). Is this true? If so, can we always assume that someone addressed as such such as Lord Voraronberg (the castellan's food and bevarage manager in Mirror Dance) is either a count's heir or head of a family?

Mark is especially touchy about being mistaken for Miles, so he's especially careful to emphasize that Lord Vorkosigan is not himself; others may be sloppier, though I'd guess that a Lord Jim who asks to be called Lord Vorotoole would be frowned at. —Tamfang 05:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

3. Are all Vor entitled to be called at minimum Lady/Lord (First Name)?

I do not believe so. In Komarr, Ekaterin is only referred to as Madame Vorsoisson. Dachande 21:40, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

And in A Civil Campaign, one of the Koudelka sisters is nervous for a moment over whether to call her Madame or Lady, then decides that if she wanted to be called Lady she'd have said so. —Tamfang 04:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

4. If a Vor woman marries outside the Vor class, does she lose her Lady status such as a Haut woman marrying a ghem-lord loses her bubble? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.99.72.189 (talk • contribs) 10:01, 27 November 2006.

5. Komarr, Sergyar Are there Districts on Komarr and Sergyar? Do they get a vote in the Council? One vote?