Talk:Vladimir Khodov

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1) Vladimir Khodov was not a North Ossetian. He was born as Vladimir Samoshkin in Berdyansk (Ukraine) in 1979. He only moved to Elkhotovo in 2000. His mother had gone to the Norther Caucasus in the 1980s and (re- ?)married there. It is doubtful, however, whether Vladimir always lived in the Ukraine up to that time. Some sources have him in Krasnodar (Southern Russia) in 1998. The adoption by his stepfather (and successive name change) may have been a trick to evade criminal charges.

http://www.hrvc.net/news2004/23-10-04.html

http://military-en.rian.ru/article.html?art_id=35265


2) Various sources on the internet suggest that these criminal charges included murder, rape and drug trafficking. Most of these probably committed before his arrival in Elkhotovo. The explosion was in Vladikavkaz, by the way (the article is very vague about that - I suppose the author did not know?) - and may have been directed at a bank: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RMSMC/message/3255

The drug trafficking is in Russian sources - but referring to his brother Boris from beginning of 2003 till June 2003, when he got arrested - and released very soon after. The attack was on a bank.--pgp 13:55, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

To complicate matters even further: Vladimir Khodov has a namesake, who happens to be the mayor of Beslan. This makes for confusing googles.

Mayor during the attack, or before? Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 11:10, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I am now happy my sentence was ambiguous. I relied on [1]
But there is different information:where he is called regional administrator and someone else is called mayor.
Most of the Russian articles I saw, seemed to call him head of administration of Beslan. [2]
But it seems he was soon promoted to "глава Правобережного района Северной Осетии". Regional head. [3]
But somehow, on February 1st 2005, he was "again" called mayor of Beslan when meeting Kozak: [4]
He is still mayor here: [5] Confusingly, this source has him as regional head and mayor in september 2004 already: [6] I surely would not want to write an article on this one. The only explanation I see is that this VK can combine "regional head" with mayor, and was somehow mayor-elect, but not yet for real in September 2004, which explains why someone else gets mentioned sometimes then. This is not the end of the story: VK2's grand-child, who died in the school, was also called ... Vladimir Khodov. --pgp 13:50, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, I thought I had the answer here. Unfortunately, the guy who quits for him (Boris Urtaev) is not the one quoted above (Oleg Gobuyev). In any case, he was head of administration of the town, and mayor-elect. He now more or less doubles up as regional head and mayor. On the 24th of September they had not found someone to be the new administrative head of the town yet. Perhaps that is what Oleg Gobuyev is doing? --pgp 14:31, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

--pgp 12:39, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] New Stuff

  • a) I'm wary about using Livejournal posts as external links or sources
  • b) Can we source the claim that his brother/niece were hostages?
Thanks for trying to divide this up now. By the way, in view of this other new stuff, some which seems rather sensational and yet believable, perhaps it would be better to leave out the brother-niece thing (and while we are it, perhaps also the bomb belt thing?) since it remains unsourced: I haven't found anything on this after +- 16 hours of Russian google and yandex ... Sounds like this guy made it up. I would leave in the other livejournal thing, since it was based on the very article we are discussing now. And the other Muslim is actually named. Oleg or something.

--pgp 11:43, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I took out the brother/niece bit, but I left in the bomb-belt since I'm pretty sure I remember seeing it myself earlier - I'll look around tonight or tomorrow for the proper link to source it. Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 16:50, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Found it, http://commersant.com/page.asp?id=596481 says “Abdullah asked me if my children were n the gym,” she said. “I answered that they were. Then he promised to release them if I put on a hijab and shakhida's [explosive] belt., whereas we know that VK used the name Abdullah as his "codename" in the siege :) Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 17:07, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
  • c) I prefer to see "he left", not "he had to leave", many people leave a city after an accusation of crime, they are not run out of town.
  • d) in Elkhotovo, an arsenal of weapons was found at the home of another convert and Vladimir's picture and code name (Abdullah) appeared on the FSB "Wanted" Internet Pages. - how are weapons found at some random unnamed "convert" (bad word choice) related to Khodov being on the FSB list?
  • e) Removing WP:NOR opinion that niece was "possibly" killed killed by Khodov, unless sourced.
Yes, as I said above: leave it out completely. Not sourced. By the way: my "original research" was that I discovered no reference to a girl being shot on the spot (almost all the men, yes, and some women, even a hostage taker who gave sweets to some children) so I presumed it was during the storm. But VK probably was the first hostage taker shot dead, so he probably had no time to shoot children.--pgp 11:43, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/10/04/motherevicted.shtml suggests that he was put on the FSB list in 1998 after the accusation of rape, which suggests we should look for the detail that he was actually charged with rape. In either way, how was he legally adopted, without the State noting that he was a wanted fugitive? Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 14:55, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


Hi, believe it or not but I was editing myself at the time. Did not succeed. But you did a few things I wanted to do.

Deciding to have a go at Russian pages, I found this: http://www.baikal-info.ru/index.php?id=50&s=1&p=1099

obviously a remnant. The link to Baikal UVD does not work anymore. (well, it shows other people)

1) Again the claim that he was adopted earlier. I happen to know that in Russia this sort of thing is not often officialized. It is now clear that he attended the school, and obviously he attended it as Samoshkin. It is a bit less obvious that he became Khodov when returning from Krasnodar.

2) there is no mention of other kids and again this may be a Russian thing: cousins are often called brothers. They also claim that no one is supporting her anymore. Now if Khodov's parents used to live at Beslan, that may explain some things ... My solution would be to change "brother" into "relative" +perhaps cousin between bracktes + add "reportedly".

3) the link provides info but also complications: how could Boris have been in prison for seven years, if he was at least two years younger than Vladimir (24 or 25) at the time. And here the mother is not widowed at Elkhotovo, no, she leaves for Elkhotovo after a divorce... It also states earlier terrorist actions by Khodov. Which of course counterdicts Basaev's double agent story.

The letter of the 30 villagers claims that at his brother's grave he not only swore to avenge his death (although the 2 families had already reconciled) but also declared that he could not wait for his adoptive father to die. So two possiblitied: a) there was there a problem in the family - did Anatol' get tired of his adoptive son? or b) was his adoptive father terminally ill? --pgp 13:35, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

But that his mother was forced to leave Elkhotovo, now seems clear.

I will search further.

User:Pan_Gerwazy--pgp 15:16, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


Alright, we'll update with "relative" on 2, and is it Borik or Boris? Are they diminutives of the same name? And then should we just say "he adopted the name Khodov" when he returned, and remove any reference to an actual legal adoption as a mistranslation? Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 15:19, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Coming back to d) above. I suppose Elkhotovo is not a very big place, and the police knew about Vladimir being a convert too. But they must have had more than that on him to suspect him in the first place. Obviously, the inhabitants of Elkhotovo cannot be 100% wrong: something stinks here. I know it is common practise to explain such things by referring to the low pay of law enforcers in Russia but I think in this case, it looks appropriate.
Name change: I suppose we can safely assume that he was Samoshkin at school and retained that name there for some time (we have a witness who remembers Samoshkin). But he switched to Khodov very soon. The rape case is against a Vladimir Anatolovitch Khodov. But of course, later, as a member of a "terrorist" band he had more than one passport in different names. I would not be surprised if one of them was Ukrainian and in the name Samoshkin.--pgp 10:26, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

After reading this article, it seems to me the English sources we used at first got a lot wrong. Perhaps the authors of these articles just guessed some answers themselves? This source even has him born in 1976. And Elkhotovo 50 km from Beslan.

I think we better leave out the name change as having happened after the rape. "imeet neskol'ko pasportov na raznye familii". I agree that was my mistake.

[edit] Vladikavkaz train

Oops! Finally I found the entire Moskovskiy Komsomolets article. Criminal Ukraine It does answer a few questions. It now seems the attempt to de-rail the Moscow to Vladikavkaz train happened close to ... Elkhotovo. The weapons find was not the last one in the neighbourhood before Beslan. Explains why some police may have thought something was afoot in Elkhotovo.

Very old news, but proving that he was indeed wanted for terrorist actions at the moment he was quietly living with his mother in the summer of 2004: http://news.flexcom.ru/russia/2004/02/21/32016/

Some pictures here: http://www.newsru.com/russia/29may2004/rtain.html
I found a Russian road map with Elkhotovo on it. It is North West of Beslan, but still in the "southern" part of Northeren Ossetia. Close to the border, and 40 km from Beslan. The railroad line is also indicated here. it splits up in Beslan.--pgp 07:56, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rape

We needed a citation that he was charged with rape, yes? Now here we have an extraordinary account of VK's adventures after that incident. I must say other sources (again police officers informally quoted by journalists) have him going to a medressa in Dagestan, or even to Syria - but this account seems more detailed: http://www.vremya.ru/2004/166/4/107465.html So, not Krasnodar on the way to Maikop, but Maikop itself. pgp

--pgp 22:14, 23 April 2006 (UTC)==Conversion==

Another comment would be that http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1315871,00.html indicates that Khodov converted to Islam in prison...in prison for what? He seemling wasn't jailed for the rape or market bombing, so what? Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 15:29, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

First contact with Islam in Adigeya (a bit like Northern Ossetia - a region with only about 20% Muslims, but here they are the original inhabitants) then Cherkessia, and finally Chechnya and military training, where he also serves as a cook.--pgp 10:52, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

The conversion thing: it does say Boris took Vladimir to the local mosque.


This archive says The second militant – Vladimir Khodoyev – came to the attention of intelligence services in 1999. He was wanted for rape. Citing its source, Vremya Novostey says that Khodov joined a Wahhabi group in Adygeya. After that, he attended a Muslim school, and left for Chechnya., which I guess supports earlier mention of a Medrassa, was Borik a Wahhabi? I know that villagers who lived around Bei-Alla and Musa Tsechoyev reportedly insisted that there was no Wahhabism involved in their motivation. (Also, that article says But it was established later that the bandits had brought all their weapons in three cars immediately before the attack., and so far we've only identified two cars). Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 17:19, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

This page is in fact based on the Vremya Novostey article I quoted. They just left out Cherkessia. No independent source, just proves other people believe the Vremya assertions. In my first quote, I left out the Wahhabite thing on Adygea (Maykop is in Adygea!). Local police in Russian regions with a 10-25% muslim minority (according to the website of Adygean local government only 22.9 % of the inhabitants are Adygean, and not all are muslims - it obtains also for Northern Ossetia and even Kabardino-Balkaria, since the Kabardins seem almost immune to Wahhabitism) tend to use the Wahhabite epithet very fast. So we need to be careful about that one. Borik a Wahhabite? He just did not have the time and oppurtunity to become one. He seems to have spent most of the first half of 2003 smuggling weapons and drugs. As for Vladimir - I think he must been with the Wahhabites in July 2003 at the latest, when he left the training camp to bury his brother.--pgp 22:14, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Borik

3) factual mistake: his brother Boris/Borik (unclear for me whether Borik is a diminutive, or the Ossetian version of Boris) did not "abduct Iriston Gabisova's brother" (the -a at the end of the name, indicating a woman, is a giveaway!) but Sveta Gabisova and was killed by her brother Iriston Gabisov. This was in a Guardian article, quoted in: http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1315871,00.html

Boris-Borik. According to my wife (who is from the extreme North West of Ukraine) Borik is a normal diminutive for Boris (next to Borya, Borenchik ...) in parts of the Ukraine and Southern Russia. Perhaps it is also the version Ossetians prefer. But most people probably knew about Boris/Borik only from the mouth of Vladimir, and he was a bit older, so perhaps inclined to use the diminutive.
I think I read somewhere Boris converted to Islam in prison. Perhaps his half-brother converted while visiting him? I also started to think that Boris may have got a seven year conviction, but did not serve so long - but I agree that is original research and needs substantiation.
No, again I was wrong here. Boris seems to have been born in 1980 - which means he was 16 when imprisoned, 23 when he got out and abducted Sveta, someone he had known at school. In fact, I was almost there - he got eight years but served a bit less than seven. --pgp 10:02, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
By the way, I think we can safely assume Vladimir and Boris were half-brothers (we have two sources claiming Boris was also a son of Vladimir's mother), and after the adoption they became fulll brothers, so step-brother is wrong in my view. As for the first sentence "(Khodov) was considered likely to be one of the six leaders" - would not "is considered likely to have been" be better? User:Pan_Gerwazy--pgp 20:56, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
(I agree on the is/was, sorry) - I assumed Borik was Anatoly's son, is that wrong? Do we have any indication that Aleksandra was married when Vladimir was born? She would need to have two different husbands/men for Vladimir and Borik to be half-brothers. Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 22:48, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
I remember reading "rodila Borisa" somewhere. Her son therefore, but, you are right, also Anatoly's. It now seems likely he was born in 1980 (see info on his conviction), so may have been conceived in the Ukraine. This early birth in fact more or less counterdicts one of my silent assumptions, which ran as follows. One of the reasons why Berdyansk residents remember Vladimir as having stayed there after his mother left, was that he came back there for the summer holidays. Reasonable assumption: such travel in Soviet days was typical (both parents worked) and cheap (but uncomfortable). However, nobody in Berdyansk remembers Boris. Strange - perhaps Boris was sent somewhere else because the people looking after his brother there were relatives of his natural father? Doubtful, I agree. Too bad, actually: Vladimir's trips to the Ukraine may actually explain why Vladimir's name seems to have continued to be Samoshkin for some time [Original Research: and may have led to an identity crisis when the Soviet Union collapsed - explains how he evolved]. As for Vladimir's father - every source claims Anatol' adopted him. We do not know his original "otchestvo" - Samoshkin may be the maculinization of his mother's name. In that case he must have been registered at birth as "father unknown". The way many sources phrase how Anatol' came back, after some protracted business in the Ukraine, with a wife and a son, and obviously not his own - I am inclined to believe that Vladimir was born earlier than we now have. Many sources also claim he was 27 at the time of the siege, by the way.--pgp 10:24, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

About Borik versus Borik: [7] pgp 22:32, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The age problem for Boris also gets a beginning of an explanation. The rape Vladimir was accused of, seems to have happened when he was on his way to visit his brother in prison in Maikop (still makes Boris very young when going to prison).


Since we know that Borik abducted Sveta in June 2003, this article sounds like it is clear that he tried to arrange a wedding right away, then her brothers took her away. Then later Iriston went back to argue with Borik, and during the argument, Borik was shot, yes? Presumably then, the abduction, wedding and shooting were all in June/July 2003. A more definite date on the abduction would be helpful, if it is early June, we can say "In June 2003..." and include all of them, since they appear to all be within a few days Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 11:17, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Problem: this one says he got out of prison at the beginning of the year. Now, this is actually from the German magazine Der Spegel, which charges 2 euros for electronic reading of its Beslan dossier. Most of what you will find searching the internet for Spiegel+Beslan+Khodov will be (often angry) reactions to the articles. Note that for some time, Der Spiegel also believed that Khodov survived the attack. --pgp 12:09, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I just noted that Der Spiegel says he abducted her on the first of ... July. He wanted to marry her, she did not want him. Relatives took her back, but he continued to stalk her. The shooting took place on the 19th. According to the letter of the 30 villagers , Iriston was unarmed shen he came out of the house but in the end, turned Boris's weapon against him. After making peace between the families they tried to bury Boris on the 22nd of July. --pgp 14:02, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The attacks

I am just using a translator, so help me if I am wrong “Внимание, розыск! Разыскивается Владимир Ходов, 1976 г.р., уроженец с. Эльхотово says he was born in 1976, yes? Also, doesn't that article state that the FBS got Vladimir's mother to phone? The rough translation I see is On the second floor, in the apartment, where it is prescribed it is running it lives its mother, already several evenings it does not burn light. They immediately drove away woman in the militia machine. But they then transmitted to special services. - Voloden'ka, let go kiddies, convinced its mother. - just they that to you poor made?. With the son she talked on the telephone several times. Special services greatly hoped that the mother will be able it somehow to influence. It is useless. Is running itself it ended any contact. - do not ring to me more, he said to it. And it were requested. Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 11:00, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, my Russian is slightly better than that automatic translator, I presume. I actually understand why it is making some of these mistakes. (No, do not take this to rely on me 100%) You are absolutely right that it asserts that the FSB got Alexandra to phone Khodov at the school. Here goes my version: "On the second floor of the apartment [first floor in British English, by the way], where Khodov was registered, and lives his mother, for several evenings no light has been on. They immediately drove away the woman in a Militia [police] car. But they then transferred her to the special services. - Voloden'ka, let the kiddies go, his mother begged him. "did they ever do anything bad to you?." She talked to her son on the telephone several times. The special services greatly hoped that the mother would be able somehow to influence him. It was useless. Khodov himself ended any contact. - do not ring me anymore, he said to her. And he bade her farewell. Oops, forgot to confirm date of birth: 1976, yes.
--pgp 11:36, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Hrm, that raises another question though, that indicates that the authorities knew the identities of at least some of the hostagetakers, during the siege - maybe I am wrong, but I thought that was not the case? Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 19:04, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
I suppose they must have noted what was happening in and around Elkhotovo. And the guy who went in and took the babies out may have provided some information as well. In any case they may have gone to his mother and have her phone him, just on spec. --pgp 19:54, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
Well they were all theoretically wearing balaclavas, though during the Ruslan negotiations you can see that Polkovnik(?) definitely had removed his mask - so it's vaguely possible that Ruslan managed to identify a random rapist accused of complicity in a train attack, but very doubtful, no? Or to just say "Hi, can you phone the school and ask to speak to Vlad...see if they're dumb enough to say "Okay, one second", lol ;) I am intrigued now though, whether he identified himself first, or somebody recognised him, or maybe his mother went to authorities herself? I don't know Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 20:22, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Double-agent?

recently, just before the first anniversary of Beslan, Basaev claimed that Khodov had infiltrated his armed group on behalf of the Russian security forces, but had turned a double agent, facilitating the trek through Ingushetia and Ossetia. There are however a number of inconsistencies in this story: Basaev claimed Khodov infiltrated during the spring of 2004, but most people who knew Kodov believe he was fighting for Basaev since 2003, or even before. In his letter , Basaev calls Abdullah (Vladimir) Khodov an agent of the Federal Security Service (FSB) and the Regional Organised Crime Combating Department RUBOP) at the same time." But the RUBOP has been abolished for quite some time now, and while they both existed, FSB and RUBOP were sworn enemies: no one could ever have been a member of both. Basaev also consistently claimed Khodov was a North Ossetian, which he was not. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chechnya-sl/message/45854

[edit] In hiding? Or not really?

The text from Der Spiegel had a Muslim cleric (who helped VK to bury his brother) hiding Vladimir in his cellar, where he was found (during a weapons search?) by the police. The police later released him.

Actually, there is a second source on this release: a letter by 30 inhabitants of Elkhotovo to Komsomolskaya Pravda. Here, he is arrested because of the disorder he caused at the Christian burial place. And released.

IMHO these two versions are sufficiently different not to evolve from the same erroneous source, and yet sufficiently similar to cause an enigma. For this guy was wanted in the whole of Russia ... --pgp 13:06, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


Alright, I'll throw this note in - feel free to tidy up what I enter. Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 02:48, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
I think it should go in the article. Anyone who writes the article on Vladimir Khodov, mayor will probably want to refer to the fact that he calmed the wildest rumours, but on the other hand insisted that security lapses should be investigated. And this is one of the biggest security lapses in the Beslan tragedy. We need not bring up the possiblity of corruption and possible misuse by VK of the name change problem and Vladimir Khodov seemingly being a frequent name in Northern Ossetia. I think it will naturally come to readers' minds. By the way, last night I read an article (in Trud I seem to remember) which gave the perfect answer to a few questions: why and how did the Khodov children go to school nr 1, if they lived in Elkhotovo (40 km away - see the map), and why did Vladimir use his Ukrainian name there - or at least some people there remember him as Samoshkin. Remember the source saying mother and children went to Elkhotovo after the divorce (while most sources claim Anatol' was a native of Elkhotovo)? Well, according to Trud - it is almost the other way round. Father and mother separated for some time, the mother moved to Beslan with the two sons, but later returned to her husband (there was no divorce). In the meantime, Vladimir and Boris went to school number one. The name change problem is solved this way: no need for extended summer holidays in the Ukraine. Actually, for the first time in all the reading on VK I have done, it felt like a text that solved far more problems than it created (only one: they claim Boris was only in prison or four years. Well, it may be a misprint) [[8]]
I feel more or less assured now that a stable version is in the offing. Since Dutch is my main language, I am thinking of starting a Dutch version of the article.

User:Pan_Gerwazy--pgp 09:08, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Berdyansk again

Prima may just have been filling in a (big) hole: http://vypusk.kursk.ru/pic/Beslan.doc "А по данным службы безопасности Украины – он до 2000 года проживал в квартире своего деда в Бердянске, скрываясь от уголовного преследования."

According to Ukrainian security services, [from 1998] to 2000 he lived in the apartment of his grandfather in Berdyansk, hiding from prosecution"

In fact, four years from 1998 to the end of 2002 sounds a bit much for just learning in a madrassa and participating (mostly as a cook)in Chechnya. The second war only started in september 1999.--pgp 22:36, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

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