Talk:Violence in ice hockey

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To whom it may concern -- using the wiki markup is preferred to using HTML. So to make a bullet list, use the asterisk, and to make a numbered list, use the hash sign. I think the "editing help" link will have the details. Hth, Wile E. Heresiarch 01:08, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

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Per vfd discussion (Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/NHL Violence), I have renamed NHL violence to violence in ice hockey. (Someone else had already renamed from NHL Violence to NHL violence.) -- Wile E. Heresiarch 01:05, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Ace Bailey? 2 Other Notables 3 Merge? 4 Biased article?

[edit] Ace Bailey?

The on-ice incident that nearly killed Ace Bailey should be on here, although I don't know enough of the details to post it myself.

I quite agree; it's far and away the most famous single such incident in hockey history. I'm feeling lazy tonight, but if no one else posts it, I will. RGTraynor 01:40, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Other Notables

--Probably a good idea to link to the legends of hockey site. I think Malarchuk having his jugular severed on ice was one of the closest and most graphic. The Bailey incident was a career ender. While relevant to violence in hockey, the 1933 incident is probably more recognized because it highlights the jurisdiction of the league and the use of their power to punish players for excessive use of force. I think there is a lack of balance here. The NHL renaming would be fine if the POV was balanced so no assumptions about death in that league were made ( Bill Masterton being the only player in the NHL to die from injuries received in a game). More recently the Bertuzzi incident was portrayed as one of the most violent attacks and the media coverage probably outstripped any previous incident. The AHL level Stafford and Perezhogin incident resulted in a season suspension for Alexander Perezhogin and illustrates the individual's role in violent attacks regardless of the rules or penalties and demonstrates that the scope of violence exists beyond the arm of the law or the rules of the game. The fact that intent to injure is a major penalty and an 'automatic suspension' indicates that the rules are in place. The fact that Joe Thornton was suspended for a weak hit against a former teammate very recently should notify anyone playing or watching that the league will not tolerate even mild attempts to injure.

[edit] Merge?

Two articles about the same thing. Merge Kerowyn 09:21, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Disagree. Two articles about different things. One concerns a condoned, if penalized, aspect of the sport, the other about an illegal and uncondoned aspect. RGTraynor 11:48, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

But "Violence" and "Fighting" are synonyms. Both articles are about violence on the ice. I don't think someone is likely to go looking for the condoned aspect and the uncondoned. They should be in the same article for simplicity's sake. Kerowyn 03:04, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Because they are two separate things, as the average hockey fan knows; you could just as readily decide that "offense" and "violation" are the same thing in hockey because they are likewise synonyms, and I am given to understand that Wikipedia's goal is to be informative, not to be simplistic. I appreciate that you're trying to clean up tags Wikiwide, but in the ten months since the tags were posted, out of the several dozen participants in the Ice Hockey Wikiproject, not one has spoken in favor of any such merge, let alone seek any manner of consensus for it. The tags are best cleaned by removing them. RGTraynor 06:45, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I think we're quibbling with semantics here. I'm not trying to be simplistic, I'm trying to be sensible. I merged the article initially because no one cared enough to object. I think violence on the ice is the same whether it's condoned or not and it makes sense to address it all in one place. Kerowyn 22:30, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Your opinion has been noted, and I think we can all agree that if you bring a consensus around to said opinion, a merger is appropriate. RGTraynor 18:03, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Biased article?

This article does not present a balanced point of view and clearly tries to make a case that violence in the NHL is both rampant and totally absurd. I am certainly not a proponent of violence in hockey but the article strikes me as biased. It is also factually incorrect, claiming that the NHL "is the only professional league that has a major players award for sportsmanship" which is blatantly incorrect (NBA, MLB, many soccer/football leagues). The death of Bill Masterton is presented as the result of "escalating violence" which as far as I know is not the case (he did die as a result of falling after contact but no serious harm was intended). Also the reference to death of fans is irrelevant (and simply part of the bias). Pascal.Tesson 23:29, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The death of Masterton is presented as no such thing; however, I agree that the reference and to that of the deaths of fans (of which there has been exactly one in league history, as a result of a puck clearing the glass) are misplaced and edited them out.

The information on the Lady Byng trophy is quite correct. Other sports have sportsmanship trophies, but only in the NHL is the trophy considered by the fans as being a significant trophy on a par with MVP, leading scorer and leading positional player awards. How many of us can name off the top of our heads many past Byng award winners (Bucyk, Middleton, Ratelle, Richards, Gretzky, Francis, Sakic, Kariya, Bossy, Turgeon, Mullen, Kehoe, Mogilny, Mikita, Keon, Boucher, Goring, Goyette, Delvecchio, Kurri, Kelly, Quackenbush ... and that's just off the top of my head) compared with how terribly few of us could name any sportsmanship award winner from any other sport?

As far as the article as a whole goes, it is a notable controversy in the league and deserving of an article. I see both sides' arguments presented, but as it stands, professional ice hockey is the only team sport in North America where throwing punches does not result in immediate suspensions, and it's very tough in light of that to infer it isn't a big deal. RGTraynor 14:37, 21 April 2006 (UTC)