Wikipedia:Village pump/January 2004 archive 1

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[edit] List of Wikipedians by number of edits

Update Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by number of edits? --Jia ng

Try the stats. I can't believe it. The last time I checked you were just one above me, now you're like 10 or 15. :-) --Menchi (Talk)â 23:46, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] When should there be a picture?

I see lots of entries which I could add a picture. Should I go ahead and add the picture, or are the guidelines as to which articles should and shouldn't have pictures? Eurleif 04:23, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)

As long as there are no copyright infringements, I think most articles could do with a picture. - Hephaestos 04:33, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Please do! Also, if you find articles that especially need a picture, and you can't provide one yourself, please list them on Wikipedia:Requested pictures. -- Wapcaplet 04:45, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Automobile diagrams?

I'm idly considering working on a generalized 3D model of important parts of an automobile, completely assembled, for the benefit of current or future articles that may need illustration. Significant bits I'd like to include:

Engine compartment, including engine block, radiator, air filter, battery, and however much additional detail I can squeeze in
Suspension/steering system and drive train, including shocks, struts, wheels

This is obviously a large undertaking; I am thinking of loosely basing the model on the illustrations in the repair manual for my Corolla, and plan to essentially build the car from scratch, body and all, in Blender. I'm confident that it can be done, but I'd be interested in hearing opinions on whether it would be worthwhile. Eventually, it'd be great to get a fine enough level of detail to make it applicable for illustrating almost any aspect of how a car works. There's probably enough encyclopedia-like information on automobile construction to make a fairly decent WikiProject out of it. Thoughts? -- Wapcaplet 21:14, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)

How about doing this as part of the illustration WikiProject? I would definitely love to recruit a 3D artist for rendering some ancient temples and machines... ;-) In any case, we certainly need a decent 3D model of an automobile. How would you upload this? Maybe Flash would be an appropriate format here (it's open), to allow rotation of the model.—Eloquence

Still images (jpg or png) would be easy to export, but since the resulting images will be raster, rather than vector, I don't think Flash would be a possibility without additional conversion. Animations are easy enough to do with Blender, but they'd be .avi or another video format, and probably prohibitively large. What kind of ancient temples and machines do you have in mind? Request them and I'll see what I can do :-) -- Wapcaplet 16:43, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I would strongly put my voice in against using Flash. At least inline in the article. --Morven 23:41, 26 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I agree, but I think a still image with a link to "Interactive 3d model (requires Flash)" would be okay. I'd still prefer as much static content as possible though, as this keeps the articles more generally useful outside a WWW context (e.g. a paper version of Wikipedia, or even just individuals printing out an article for personal use). --Delirium 08:26, Dec 27, 2003 (UTC)

Well, with the approach I'm using, Flash is not likely to be a possibility, so no worries on that front. I've finished the basic body of the car (no interior or wheels yet) and have a rough idea of where I'm going to place some of the engine components; I haven't decided how detailed the eventual model will be, but it will certainly have enough detail to indicate where most of the important parts of a car are (though only in the most general way, since vehicles are all different), and probably a little bit about what they look like. Later, I can go further and flesh out the detail of each piece, aiming for something pretty close to functional realism (if not visual realism). I hope to be able to use the diagrams to explain, for example, how coolant flows through the engine, radiator, and heater core; how the gasoline gets to the engine; how the engine drives the alternator to recharge the battery; how the pressurized brake fluid applies the brakes to the wheels, etc. If anyone else out there is proficient with Blender, please let me know, as this is likely to be a complex project! Later, it'll also be good to have the input of people with automotive expertise. -- Wapcaplet 23:50, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] When did articles get categories?

I was reading Drum and bass and saw this notice at the top of a table: This article is part of the Electronic music series. When did Wikipedia articles get categories? Where can I find guidelines to incorporating articles into categories?

I don't think there are any guidelines. Do as you see fit and be willing to discuss alternatives if others don't like it. Tables like that have no technical effect -- they're just a method of organizing articles.Tuf-Kat 03:32, Dec 23, 2003 (UTC)

There's a real technical category system in the works (I kinda get tired of saying this -- when will it go live?), but these series boxes are fairly arbitrary. Someone came up with a standard layout for them once and several users adopted it to group related articles together. I think these boxes are quite neat, personally.—Eloquence

[edit] Usernames

What is the relationship between Wiki and Clublet? Why won't my Wiki username let me post/reply there. There is not page, that I can find, that lets me register with Clublet seperately. Is it me, or is Saturn too close?--anon

Are you referring to http://clublet.com/c/c/why?HomePage ? If so, that is a completely different website. "Wiki" is simply a name that describes the concept of openly editable websites, Wikipedia is one website (an encyclopedia) which uses this concept. There are many others, and they all require separate registrations (unlike Clublet, most allow anonymous editing). Please read the article Wiki for more details. As for registering on Clublet, when you click "Edit" on a page, there should be a "Sign in" popup window. If you enter a non-existent username and a password you will be prompted for further information to complete your registration. Hope that helps,—Eloquence

[edit] Aria Giovanni is #1?

According to the current list of popular articles, the individual whose article is most frequently viewed is Aria Giovanni. This amazes me. For those of you who are unfamiliar with her, Ms Giovanni is a relatively obscure nude model and soft core porno actress. But by at least one standard she's more famous than George Bush, Saddam Hussein, Jesus Christ, or Britney Spears.

I don't have a point to make about this except that I find this very strange. MK 0124 EST 23 December 2003

Please note that this is based on the page counters, which have been disabled for ages. It might have been because of a high Google ranking at the time (it's not high now), while we have no chance to achieve a high ranking on Jesus or Britney (at least until Google integrates us into their UI like they did with dictionary.reference.com).—Eloquence

I suppose there may also be a connection with her being an "adult" subject. Ours is one of the very few pages about Ms.Giovanni that doesn't contain nudity and keywords that would trigger the adult-content filters used by lots of people and institutions. So I'm guessing that if I enter her name into a search that's intermediated by such a filter then ours would be one of the few sites it would permit through. I'd say the same would be true for other people who you'd typically find on adult websites (largely nude-models and porn starlets). The same isn't true for Britney, Jesus, George, or Saddam - so most sites wouldn't get filtered and wikipedia wouldn't enjoy this unusual "unfair" advantage. -- Finlay McWalter 01:41, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Obscure to who? Not to followers of pornagraphy or adult film stars, to them she's very well known.--Elde 16:51, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Tech: external site to wikipedia wikilinking

Hello villagers. As most good ideas in the world, wiki is becoming so obvious now that one is sure one did really have this idea before (which is obviously false, because ideas don't exist before they are realized). But, anyway, I have done a little web-site on Chinese culture (Classics, poetry...) where I wanted to add many cross-links on any name or important noun, but I never made that because it's too hard to code and maintain. It would be awfully convenient for me to be able to do that massive in-text linking using wiki's markup language. I guess I would only need to include the parse-link function in my php, to translate [[link]] into <a href="wikipedia.org/blabla"> bla </a>. Is it possible to grab politely this chunk of code somewhere? I do believe that it's a great improvement for any dedicated web-site to link many names, titles, or words on a ever-evoluting free encyclopedia (mostly because links should never be broken). I know that my question should be written somewhere else, but where? gbog 16:27, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Look up wiki. there is a link to a list of dozens of Wiki engines. -- Tarquin 16:40, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Navigation tables

It's great that articles like Architecture of the United States are linked to "sideways" topics like Architecture of the United States. But could we find a way of doing this without a table? They are undesirable for a large number of reasons, and only articles where tabular data is essential should have one. -- Tarquin 17:38, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

This case could be done, I believe, with a floating DIV (in much the way we do most images in floating DIVs).

Finlay McWalter 17:51, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

even with a floating DIV, it's still a lot of code at the start of the article, which makes it awkward to edit and confusing to the less technically-minded. I think a section at the foot of the article would be better -- Tarquin 18:02, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Given than we have lots of floating (left and right) stuff, perhaps we should have some specific wiki markup for them. You're totally correct that the CSS markup is too technical - I see lots of images on wikipedia that have botched floating markup (plainly copied from some other article). -- Finlay McWalter 18:15, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I copy and paste images and tables from other articles. If there were a simple wiki markup, I would learn but I've never been able to figure out how to do nice tables with backgrounds or things, or how or why to set margins and the like. Tuf-Kat 20:17, Dec 23, 2003 (UTC)

the point is that it would be preferable to have a section using plain markup, like:

Other articles in this series: foo - blah - thingy

No complex markup needed. -- Tarquin 20:43, 23 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Well, there is the new table syntax, which is still slightly complicated. I converted the table on Architecture of the United States to the new syntax. It's still a bit of code at the beginning, but it's a lot prettier than the HTML. -- Merphant 08:07, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Automatic adding of information

Recently added a page for Twin towns and wondered if there was a way of automatically making the towns added to the list generate the twin info on the article for that town.

e.g. On the Twin towns page you might add: Oxford - Bonn; Is there a quick way of getting the pages for Oxford and Bonn to have something like:

Twin town: Bonn and Twin town: Oxford

added to their respective articles

[user:btljs]

No there is no such way right now. You have to enter the information manually. By the way, you can sign your messages with ~~~, or ~~~~. Dori | Talk 00:33, Dec 24, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Organization of articles

Right now there is a slightly-more-than-stub article about the Committee of Public Safety (during the French Revolution) as such, but much more about the Committee in the excellent article on Maximilien Robespierre (largely from the 1911 Britannica). I kind of like leaving the article on Robespierre intact. Should I just add something to the "Committee of Public Safety" saying, "See also Maximilien Robespierre for a good discussion of the committee and its members", or should I duplicate the content, or what? -- Jmabel 07:55, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)

One of the 1911EB's idiosyncrasies is to focus excessively on individuals, describing many organizations inline rather than giving them their own articles. I would move all the CoPS material into the other article, and prune Robespierre down to just the stuff about him personally. 1911EB articles are good starting points, but if you read a modern bio of the person, you'll likely want to do massive editing anyway, just to reflect what historians have discovered in the past century. Stan 14:25, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Highlighting

What do I add to the end of the URL to highlight certain words on a page? --Jia ng 09:38, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)

That is a feature of some PHP scripts running some webpages. I suspect the syntax to do this varies from site to site, and far from all sites are served as PHP content. —Sverdrup (talk) 11:18, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] IMDB pseudo-namespace

I was browsing SourceForge to see what was happening and I spotted a report about "IMDB InterWiki namespace incorrectly expanded (out of date)" (it's ID 856707: I would link to it but I'm uncertain what all the doo-dads in the SF URL do). I didn't even know there was such a thing, and I have searched in vain for an explanation. I tested the described behaviour (IMDB:American Pie) and it happens just as stated. Where is the official blurb on this feature? Phil 09:41, Dec 24, 2003 (UTC)

That's "interwiki" linking. We've had that for ever. -- Tarquin 09:48, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)

So it uses the table on ~~Meatball~~ UseMod Wiki at [1]? ~~Is that updated real-time, so if I adjusted the Meatball Wiki table would the links automagically re-adjust?~~ I think the problem reported in the bug report is because the URL created has a "_" (underline) instead of each space. Phil 09:59, Dec 24, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] RC → IRC

Just a feature plug: I'm running a simple IRC bot on irc.freenode.net which dumps recent changes to the #enrc.wikipedia channel. Some people might find it useful. French and German bots are also running, at #derc.wikipedia and #frrc.wikipedia. I've recently improved it so that the bot doesn't have to be manually restarted all the time. There are no immediate plans to extend the service to the other wikis, I don't want to annoy our friends at Freenode too much. -- Tim Starling 12:09, Dec 24, 2003 (UTC)

This bot is extremely useful! Optim 06:53, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] may I suggest a few points?

In producing a wikipedia in another language (in Hungarian, for instance) it may/would be useful for the Hungarian native speakers to have the option of some sort of alignment between phrases and/or sections of texts in an article or the headwords themselves. In the Hungarian texts one could keep in brackets or otherwise the hypertext links that are to be contrasted with the Hungarian terms/concepts and their domain. That can help further translation or learning English, which may of course be out of your scope. But should be? For instance it is very tempting/challenging to translate and/or write the article knowledge in Hungarian which would result in two words tudás and ismeret respectively. They are then used to form a number of other phrases connected with knowledge and to be detailed within. All that may be necessary to explain, just as similar differences in mapping other words are very likely and call for commenting. Further examples include the names of various courses and degrees, a constant headache for translators of diplomas and certificates for accreditation. ~~apogr~~

The intlwiki-l mailing list might be a better place to ask this. Angela .

[edit] Message tags

I've seen tags for the number of articles (1,535,278) and stubs (

This article is a stub. You can help by adding to it.

). Is there a page somewhere with a complete listing of them? --Raul654 21:22, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Try Wikipedia:MediaWiki custom messages. ~ Jake 22:09, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] I'm sorry, but I'd like an answer to my question

Has Wikipedia or at least the Village Pump been taken over by an authoritarian regime or what? For days now I've been trying to find out why the "list of links" may be incomplete and what could be done about it, but all I get is no reaction (Wikipedia talk:Bug reports) or my question being archived, i e deleted (here, this morning). I don't give up easily, so here it is again. To all of you who believe in Jesus, a merry Christmas! --KF 23:33, 24 Dec 2003 (UTC)

What list of links? If you mean the list for "What links here", there are two reasons, as has been answered many times in the past:

The links tables aren't always accurate.
The list is cut off after the first 500 results as an initial measure against pages that gained ~30,000 links due to user:rambot-created city entries, and an ability to page through the list hasn't gotten added yet.

If you mean something else, please specify. --Brion 00:13, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)

When I'm reading, say, the 1960s page and I click on "What links here", I get

==1960s==

(List of links)

The following pages link to here:

101st Airborne Division

etc.

So this is why, not surprisingly I think, I referred to it as "list of links".

However, the alphabetical list stops at Co- (Coleco). This never happened, at least to my knowledge, when the list was still chronological.

It was never chronological, though it was previously in no particular order. I explained all this before, who was asking then?

I don't understand what this is to do with the city entries. I don't think it shows 500 results; it seems less. And anyway, if that feature does not work, how on earth are you supposed to build an encyclopaedia? --KF 00:44, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Yes, that shows 500. Count them if you like. --Brion 00:53, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)

PS When I want to edit a section of this page a different one opens.

That's because people add sections and their numbers change. -- Timwi 01:00, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Actually, there does seem to be a bug. It's caused by your insertion of "==1960s==" somewhere up there (and this will probably worsen it). -- Timwi 01:01, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

All this sounds unfriendly and impatient to me. Am I supposed to be sorry for asking? Am I supposed to be happy that every other question is answered?

You should not consider it your right to receive an answer. Everybody here is a volunteer and is not getting paid. -- Timwi 01:00, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

"As has been answered many times in the past": When? Where? By whom?

I'm too tired to continue now, but I don't understand any of this. KF 01:02, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Here, in the pump. When? I don't know exactly, a few weeks ago? It's probably been archived somewhere where it will never be found again. Anyway, I'm right now banging at the code to try to make it possible to page through the results; apologies if I sound impatient, but it's a bit of a hectic time of year. --Brion 01:06, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Merry Christmas!

Merry christmas and best wishes for Peace Profound! Optim 06:51, 25 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia & ethics of "sensitive" information

While researching the article on medical prescription, I stumbled across information on what consistutes a valid DEA number (US government's Drug Enforcement Agency). That, is the number of letters and digits and the relationship of the digits and letters within the DEA number. While this information is clearly public, including it Wikipedia certainly aids criminals in prescription forgeries. Should I include it in an article? (The same discussion would apply to credit card numbers, etc.) Samw 00:40, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with these numbers (hey, an article about the numbers would be good) - what legitimate interest would someone have in finding these numbers in an encyclopedia? -- Finlay McWalter 00:48, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

The information on how valid credit card numbers are constructed is already in Wikipedia, which I don't see as problematic. These are all very simple and openly published checksums, so relying on them to prevent fraud would certainly be foolish. If there is an article in which the DEA number information would be of interest, I would say go ahead and add it. --Delirium 08:38, Dec 27, 2003 (UTC)

I agree. I recall that, at age 15, how to construct a valid credit card number was part of my school syllabus (if my memory can be trusted, they have certian prefixes and a mod 10 checksum). I don't see how a DEA number could be any more sensitive. Stewart Adcock 17:02, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

No answers, but perhaps I can formulate some questions. The big question is, "is it legitimately of interest to someone who's interested in the subject of prescriptions?" Let's put it another way. We normally accept that encyclopedia articles are of legitimate interest to somebody who is not a professional in the field described by the topic. If we truly believed that "A little learning is a dangerous thing/Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring" there would be no point in having an encyclopedia at all. Your article on medical prescriptions (which looks very good, by the way) already contains information about prescription forgeries. I find this information interesting to know, even though I've never forged and never intend to forge a prescription. Normally we assume that the inclusion of information is not tantamount to an enticement to abuse. Personally, I think that information about the internal consistency check algorithm for a valid DEA number is legitimate, while, say, Bill Gates' social security number is not.

I tend to agree with those who deprecate "security through obscurity." There was a recent research paper by some computer security gurus who looked at the structure of an ordinary cylinder lock with master-key system. They saw analogies to well-known security issues in computer systems and were surprised to find that the system was extremely insecure. Their publication created a minor flap—but then it emerged that the security issues had, in fact, been known to locksmiths and criminals literally for over a century. The only people that hadn't known about them were the people that relied on the security of these locks.

The second question is: can you get in trouble yourself or get Wikipedia in trouble by including some piece of information? I think I'm not going to even try to guess on this one. Dpbsmith 15:01, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for everyone's input. I've added a description of the checksum algorithm to Drug Enforcement Administration. Samw 21:39, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] thanks!!!

thank you to whomever fixed the system after the xmas crash. Kingturtle 23:27, 26 Dec 2003 (UTC) P.S. can someone direct me to the this is not wikipedia page so I can retrieve some stuff I was working on during the xmas crash? Kingturtle

I second the motion (and move that $10 of the wikimedia foundation's cash buy that person a few beers). You probably want: [2] -- Finlay McWalter 00:58, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Additional terms in parenthesis

Has it become standard to indicate films by adding "(films)" or "(movies)" after the title. If it is only for disambiguation I don't think Alphaville, une étrange aventure de Lemmy Caution (film) is necessary. TwoOneTwo 00:34, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Sage advice. Does the styleguide say this? It certainly should. -- Finlay McWalter 01:05, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Image linking

Clicking the highlighted text (link) where an image is suggested within an article yields a blank browser screen (IE) with the following URL in the "Address" field:

http://127.0.0.1:1027/clear.cgi?

This URL does NOT match the one revealed in the Status bar when hovering over the given link in the text

(The above URL was obtained by clicking on the highlighted portion of the following entry in the wiki/Special:Imagelist page)
(desc) Kinggus.jpg . . 9050 bytes . . J.J. . . 01:47, 27 Dec 2003 (Government portrait of Swedish King)

Any suggestions?

Most likely you are using some sort of local web proxy; some people use these to filter out advertisements or potentially offensive material. Sometimes these will filter out images that happen to fall in the "/upload/a/ad" subdirectory, for instance. I'm not sure what's triggering this image (http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/2/2e/Kinggus.jpg ) but you should check the settings on your proxy if you're using one. --Brion 08:55, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I came across this entry on a Google search for the exact same problem. Turns out that it was my ZoneAlarm setting for privacy settings about something called 'Web Bugs'. Under Cookie control>Custom, I unchecked the box for disable web bugs and it started working again as expected. But note that the URL that shows up in my address bar after getting the picture is still not the source URL... it looks like: http://127.0.0.1:1027/pb.cgi?idx=26&php=32464952

But I do get the picture of the king...

[edit] How to chat with an anon user?

Hi! Here's a minor puzzler: an un-logged-in user (24.202.135.211) has made something like 25 edits to Priory of Sion in the past hour or so- how would one go about pointing out the preview button to someone who presumably doesn't check their talk page? Or would one just use the talk page anyway? Thanks for any light you can shed! - Puffy jacket 09:11, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Use his talk page. If nothing else, the alert that he has messages may entice him to click there and read your words. Or if he's clueless, and you are working on the article at the same time, you can write somthing there (just be sure to get rid of it when done!) -- Nauvoo 09:16, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] VfD

After the ballots on Votes for Deletion are closed, IF the tally is in favor of keeping the article, is the article cleansed of all history of prior nomination in VfD?

thanks -- Ensiform

I don't understand your question. All prior versions of an article are kept. It is not possible to erase any. So the history will carry verisons that include the deletion message. -- Tarquin 17:58, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Article creation

During the drafting of my user page many errors were made while scripting the various links.

Does errant scripting of links inadvertently create new article pages?
Is there a wiki listing the most recently created articles? (Did I "wiki" the term "wiki" correctly?)
How are items compiled for the Requested articles list? (How are user/member requests made and processed?)

--azwaldo 16:25, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I take it you mean something like this article doesn't exist with "errant scripting of links"? It doesn't create an article, just provides an easy link for someone wishing to create that article. (The links are useful as well for stuff like investigating which non-existant articles are most in demand)
There is a special page on wikipedia listing all the newly created articles: Special:Newpages
People just add titles that they think should be created but are either too lazy or not knowledgeable enough to create themselves. The page is edited like any other wikipedia article. --snoyes 16:47, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Contribution record on deleted pages

If I'm not mistaken, if a page is deleted, contribution refords on that page is not listed on "User contributions" and "My contributions" pages. But I would like to double-check on this. I and others are now discussing a possible defamation case between two Japanese Wikipedians, and we may soon try to delete a certain summary comment that is allegedly defamatory. Is deleting a page enough to eliminate the comment, or should we possibly have to ask special help? Tomos 01:29, 28 Dec 2003 (UTC)

That's correct. Deleted pages in essence vanish from history. (Unless they're subsequently undeleted, of course.)

If a summary comment is the only thing at issue, though, it could be individually wiped if everyone thinks that would be better. Depends on circumstances. --Brion 02:12, 28 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome back everybody.

Good to see you. Zocky 03:11, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Thanks to all the Wikimedia developers (Brion, et al) and sysads and employees at Bomis (Jason, et al)! Hope that the 23K raised could really help with the redundancy effort. :) --seav 03:32, Dec 30, 2003 (UTC)

Yip, thanks to Brion and all the others involved. --snoyes 03:39, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Time for the most unique rider's club to reunite again, the wikiriders!! LOL!

Antonio Harley Wikipedison Martin

Agreed, thanks to everyone who works so hard on keeping Wikipedia going. And everyone, give yourselves pats on the back for contributing to the fundraiser! (You did contribute to the fundraiser, right? If not, what are you waiting for? :-) -- Wapcaplet 21:05, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] List of teenagers

Been thinking of making this, list of teenagers, not people who became famous as children, mind you, only as teenagers, what do you think? Antonio Forever Young Martin

I think we have too many lists already, but that's just my opinion. Metasquares 14:43, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I agree with Metasquares in general. However, if there is a clear need for it, go ahead. If there is no need for it, don't bother. —Frecklefoot 08:52, 30 Dec 2003 (PST)

There is a List of youngsters in history, that has a list of teenagers included in it. Adam Bishop 17:16, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Yet another frivolous list (IMHO). If we have this list, then why wouldn't "list of 20 year olds", "List of 30 year olds", etc. be allowed so as not to age discriminate? RedWolf 17:26, Dec 30, 2003 (UTC)

I have a proposal for a list that we can all find revlevant - the List of hookers. Anyone have suggestions to start the list with? --Raul654 07:25, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Heidi Fleiss? RickK 05:05, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Currently Teenager redirects to Adolescence, which does include a (short and not terribly illustrative) list. I think it might be more appropriate to use Teenager specifically for the emergence of a distinct teen culture, primarily in the US in the 1950s. Or at least there should be such an article under some name. Jmabel 04:41, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia database problem?

I created the article Éothéod during the wikipedia problems of Dec 28, and the article does exist, but all articles linking to it seem not to be aware: the link is marked as a non-exist article. I have tried to resolve it by performing an edit on Éothéod, but alas without success. Jor 14:24, Dec 30, 2003 (UTC)

See Dragons_(Middle-earth) or Rohan for examples. Jor

This sometimes happens, however the magic is to edit the page which contains the red link (I just did it with Cirion - it needed bolding of the topic anyway), and the link went blue. andy 16:36, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I think you need to edit the linking articles, as they are where the problem lies. I have edited and saved Rohan, which seems to have fixed it. I'll do the others when I get time - unless somebody else does them first. Anjouli 16:37, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for the assistance in fixing the links :) Jor 21:51, Dec 30, 2003 (UTC)

I think that, wherever possible, article titles with such accented characters should be accompanied by a redirect from the unaccented equivalent (in this case Eotheod). Apart from fixing problem arising from this (entirely understandable) misspelling, it avoids the circumstance where some future visitor makes a dupe article at the unaccented name, without knowing the accented one exists. -- Finlay McWalter 17:03, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Edit-war brewing on Warwickshire...

... again.
*sigh*
Could some non-involved sysop (are there any left, now?) please protect the page, as User:80.255 doesn't seem to want to engage in further discussion ("Ping pong!" as an edit comment isn't terribly inspiring, TBH)?
James F. (talk) 19:39, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

- Done --Raul654 20:27, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

For those of us who don't have strong feelings about Warwickshire but have an idle and discreditable fascination with edit wars... can anyone explain to us just what this edit war is apparently about? Dpbsmith 17:30, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

It's ultimately caused by the fact that in the UK, county boundaries are changed every now and then (or seemingly every five minutes in a few cases). In the case of Warwickshire, a large chunk was taken out in 1974. The war is over whether Warwickshire should be a simple disambiguation page between Warwickshire (traditional) and Warwickshire (administrative), or whether it should just describe the modern administrative county. But for all that, it's still less silly than was the fight over at Birmingham as to how big London is. Onebyone 17:51, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Thanks! Dpbsmith 23:42, 31 Dec 2003 (UTC)

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