Talk:VIA Rail

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[edit] POV concerns

The extensive history section is rife with much political speculation that borders on libel (twice claiming that politicians spitefully cut certain routes because they serviced their opponents' ridings), and finally asserting that the new Renaissance trains are failure-prone without any citation. While these claims may be true (VIA has indeed seen service cutbacks), the reasons are given without link or evidence to back it up.

There is a lack of NPOV; the general tone paints a picture of relentless and malicious political persecution, going so far as calling VIA a "political football". - quanta 02:28, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crown corporations

VIA Rail is a not a true Crown Corporation in that it cannot raise funds on the money market, rather it is subject to the whims of the government of the day for its ongoing funding. This is a major reason for the failure of VIA to improve its lot.

True enough regarding how political control limits the company's "viability" (pun intended!), however the definition of a Crown corporation throughout Canada's history has been fairly broad. In the sense that any publicly owned (ie. government) company in Canada is a Crown corporation, then VIA Rail would meet that criteria. For many years prior to its recapitalization in the late 1970's and the Canadian railway industry's deregulation in the 1980's, CN was not allowed to raise funds either. Provincial Crown corporations like B.C. Rail and B.C. Ferries or N.B. Power were similarly limited at certain points in their existence. I could be wrong, as I have not read the VIA Rail Act in-depth but is there a specific provision which limits the company from seeking funds on the "money market" in the way you describe? I would also argue that there is likely no public transport company in the world which is financially successful in the limited way in which economists in the 20th/21st century measure this. Since there is no accounting taken for the numbers of vehicles taken off a nation's highways each day, or having to construct new roads to isolated communities served by VIA/Amtrak/etc., or the environmental benefits realized, etc. etc. etc. then VIA Rail, Amtrak, Eurorail, various ferries, etc. will never be financially solvent. Cheers, Plasma east 22:00, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The following section was added by User: Andrew Dunning and I have commented it out pending input from others due to several errors:

Officially, the move from the CP to CN line was to keep service to more remote communities on the CN line. However, this move was seen as somewhat more politically-motivated by some. Coincidentally, the CN route goes through more towns that voted Progressive Conservative. Harvey André, the Cabinet minister who represented Calgary in 1990, was fairly public about the fact that he did not care if he never saw a train again in his life. The CN line also went through Edmonton, the home of both Mulroney and Joe Clark.

No doubt politics played a heavy role in this 2nd round of VIA cuts, however I'm unsure as to what the actual political representation played throughout the Super Continental's route (historically, the Super was a CN transcontinental train, and The Canadian was a CP transcontinental train). In the 1990 cuts when VIA was reduced to a single transcontinental, they decided to keep the more-recognized Canadian brand, and use it on the CN line... why the CN line is the question, however some have suggested CN being a crown corp at the time, gave VIA a better deal on trackage fees, insurance costs, etc. etc. Politics could also have played a role, or perhaps the thinking was that VIA should be supporting the feds to provide service to the more remote northern prairie communities since the Trans-Canada Highway follows the southerly CP route and was already well-served by inter-city busses. The main reason I've commented out the above addition was the last line concerning Clark & Mulroney's ridings - Clark represented High River near Calgary, Alberta in the 1980s and Mulroney represented Manicouagan near Baie Comeau, Quebec. Harvey André... I have no idea - very likely though. Once this part gets edited/verified properly, it should appropriately be added to the story surrounding the 2nd round of cuts in 1990.Plasma east 16:57, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Joe Clark was born and raised in High River, but he represented Yellowhead, a large riding between Edmonton and Jasper, from 1979 to 1993. Mulroney never lived in Alberta, nor was he ever an Alberta MP.--Indefatigable 17:30, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Locomotive roster

The roster is a dog's breakfast of past and present with nothing to distinguish between. Use of "streamline" to describe ex CPR Budd built stainless steel equipment is a questionable term. This whole section needs some serious work.

R.L.Kennedy 21:33, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, this is definitely a mess. Before I put some time in cleaning it up, would anyone like to weigh in as to whether they'd like to see this sort of information in this article? For Canadian National Railway and Canadian Pacific Railway we've resisted having the roster in the article, but VIA Rail might be different because (a) its locomotive count is in the dozens, not the thousands and (b) it's a bit easier to compile a complete roster since VIA's under 30 years old. I'm kind of undecided about the locomotive roster, although I feel that the passenger car roster isn't significant/useful enough for inclusion in this article. JYolkowski // talk 01:53, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I hadn't checked in here in a while as I was just browsing through to add a railroad infobox, something which I'll do shortly. I'm in total agreement on trying to clean things up - I like how the Amtrak article is organized, perhaps it could be adopted as a template? The way I originally organized the information (ie. by "cuts") is probably a tad bit negative, although unfortunately they do seem to point out the historic timeline of events for VIA. Perhaps a separate article could be created for the roster information, grouped under a new category called VIA Rail or just VIA?Plasma east 14:07, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

I noticed that several categories have been added to the article, showing "Transportation in <province name>"... I would have thought having VIA under "Railway companies of Canada", which itself is duplicated under "Transportation in Canada" and "Transportation companies of Canada", would have sufficed rather than placing VIA under every province? Also, this category listing isn't entirely accurate as it shows PEI... PEI and NL are included under VIA's national timetable, but only through bus and bus/ferry connections. No passenger trains have ever operated in those provinces under VIA, and the last time CN operated passenger trains in PEI and NL was 1968 and 1988 respectively.Plasma east 14:15, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think that since the "Category:[province] Railways" is a subcategory of "Category:Transportation in [province]", it probably makes sense to categorize it in "Category:[province] Railways" (removing PE and NL of course) and remove the existing categories. JYolkowski // talk 21:49, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] VIA Rail route map

Someday, when one of us wikipedian get time, we should have a map of the route this carrier serve, something similar to what CN page carries.

Maps are really handy on this kind of articles due to their high information density, saving minutes parsing over the entire article. Just a suggestion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wk muriithi (talk • contribs).

I already have a schematic map of the Windsor-Québec corridor - is that the sort of thing you mean, or are you thinking of a geographically-accurate map showing only major cities? David Arthur 16:37, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Something like Image:CanadianPacificRailwayNetworkMap.png or Image:CanadianNationalRailwayNetworkMap.png would be perfect. -- Beland 02:14, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I just created a network map for VIA rail. I am the creator of the maps mentioned by Beland above so I made it along the similar style. I have the raw map in GIMP format so it is easy to change. Please let me know of any changes you think that should be made, comments or suggestions. The location of the track is approximate and obviously I had to be selective on which stations/cities appeared on the map. Did I miss any routes or add routes that no longer exist? Al guy 05:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Nice addition. The only route that I see missing is the Sudbury - White River one. Also, it looks like you'd probably have room to list a few more end-point cities like Jonquière and Courtenay. Cas510 14:59, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions. I added the missing route and some more labels. Al guy 01:49, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cost of sleepers

I just reverted a new paragraph which seemed to awkwardly point out that sleepers are expensive ($3000+) but still sell out early. I couldn't find a nice NPOV way to change this, and looking at VIA's web site, it looks like the most expensive sleeper, Toronto to Vancouver for next July is $1958. I reverted using pop-ups, but I wish I had reverted and made this comment in the edit summary instead. Cas510 23:14, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't know where you got your information, but I just did a search from Toronto-Vancouver, and came up with a price of $4150.96 for a double sleeper return fare, so I am reinstating my entry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.57.186.226 (talk)

The double sleeper is for two people. VIA charges extra for a single person to occupy the space for two people. The fare for a single person in a single bedroom is $1958. I'm afraid I'm going to have to revert back. Cas510 15:01, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

-> My fare WAS based on TWO people for a DOUBLE bedroom, round-trip from Toronto-Vancouver. Quit playing games and misquoting me. I'm reinstating my opinion.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.57.186.226 (talk)

That's the problem though. Wikipedia isn't the place for your opinion. If you think Via is too expensive, then Wikipedia isn't the place to lodge that complaint. The typical way to compare fares for different services would be to compare one-way travel for one person before taxes, which would be $1958. I don't mind you adding some words to the effect that Silver & Blue class costs a certain amount of money, but that information belongs in the Silver & Blue section, not the Comfort Sleeper section, it should be phrased in a Neutral Point-Of-View way, and it should not refer to the discussion page. We should, in fact, be using this discussion page to come up with the wording of this section. Cas510 18:51, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'm sorry if I came off a little rude, but I just thought that I would advise anyone travelling Via to be aware of their relatively high prices on the Canadian. I can fly to Australia 1st class for that price! Nonetheless, you also have to remember that the trip is only three days and three nights-which I still find rather costly. The bedrooms are nothing special. Just two beds, two chairs and small table, and a private toilet. Not worth the $3000+ in my opinon, but I digress. My apologies.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.57.186.226 (talk)

Thanks for your reply. I agree with your opinion that it is expensive, but we need to keep opinion out of Wikipedia. I don't have time right now, but I'll take a crack later today at adjusting the wording of this to make it Neutral Point-of-View and moving it to the Silver & Blue section. Cas510 19:33, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank-You. :) Please forgive my curt reply to you earlier.

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