Talk:Venetian Snares

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This is from the writer of the previous. I'm full aware of the NPOV aim of Wikipedia. Look at this latest entry. "In Venetians snares' fans opinion"? "His public rapidly developped a cult-like phenomenom around him"? I was stating that, sorry, the suggestion at negative opinion, is wrought with typos. That the entry I edited had a huge paragraph following "On one hand", and then just one sentence following "On the other hand." My only concern was that those attempting to note differences in opinion were doing so in poor style, when difference in opinion is already established. "Reactions to Venetian Snares' music are diverse : it proves too erratic for the general public and is very popular within the global breakbeat scene". Hmm, I'd say this is another problematic sentence, but note that it does just fine in noting differing viewpoints of Venetian Snares without being tacked on or wordy. I offered perhaps creating a criticism subheading, since many people have hijacked this entry in the past, for whatever reason (not that you have; some edits long before.) Also, I have not stated any of my opinions whatsoever in this article, if you implied as such. I'm sorry that you were confused with my aim; I'm just as concerned about NPOV, and equally concerned about easily readable language.

I often participate to wikipedia, I believe that it has a great NPOV principle, and that's why I believe in this project. You can discuss your "differing viewpoints" here in the discussion, but certainly not by imposing your 'fan' point of view/opinion on an article that does not belong to a simple "discussion forum", but to what pretends to become a real source of knowledge, this is not a tool designed for promotion, or for some writters to express their idiosyncratic point of view. We just don't share the same opinion. You can see that I haven't expressed my own subjective opinion about the quality of this music, and you should do the same. My only opinion here is to try to stay neutral. Now you're welcome to make some corrections on the text as long as you stay neutral and if you read this :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view

For those who keep posting negative opinions of Venetian Snares, why not make a "controversy" or "differing viewpoints" subheading or something similar, instead of leaving floating comments that aren't consistent at all with the rest of the entry. Most people leaving negative comments about his material do not log in and post in a very non-professional format. You seem to care that he is defamed, but not enough to format it properly.

I added the "partial discography" section. It's the first thing I've done, hope it aint broke.

Whoever filled in the discography (80.177.20.202), thanks. I'd been wondering about that. Excellent stuff. --Chopchopwhitey 21:10, 31 May 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] needed fixes

the discog is missing: the Snares Man! - Clearance Bin / Breakbeat Malaria 7". and 237 0894 was released under the pseudonym "Vsnares" I think that needs mention. 70.35.232.206 21:26, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia...

Does anyone have any objections with moving the majority of the Trivia section into the main article? Almost all the information in this article is labelled as just trivia. Some things could stay, but I think most of it should be moved into different sections and changed into proper paragraphs from dot-point form. When I next have the time, I might do it... Moskvax 12:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

edit: I just noticed most of the trivia is basically facts about his albums, which would be better put on the album pages. I will do this someday.

I moved the remaining album-specific trivia to their respective pages. mushroom 05:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coverart

Is it alright to upload images of album artwork for this page when there is no article for the associated album or is that just cosmetic? PURPLEFISH 00:22, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

The layout looks great, and as long as they're sourced then they'll be useful resources for when the articles are finally made.

[edit] Time signatures

It's stated that "a song has been recorded in 11/8" referring to Donut from Cavalcade... I don't really care to do a thorough run-through of his entire discography anytime soon, but I do know much of Huge Chrome Cylinder Box Unfolding is in extremely odd or even erratic time signatures. I'm going to bounce around his discography and give a quick rundown on the ones I can decipher, I hope someone can integrate it into the article better than I think I could (I'm skipping the ones in 7/8, since they make up the majority of his output and it seems to be the signature he's most natural in [one of the things I absolutely love about his music is his natural 7/8]):

Huge Chrome Peach, Ion Divvy, and Bent Annick are in fact in 11/8, handily demonstrating the quoted text to be false. Li²CO³ is in 13/8 and Nineteen 1319 seems to be self-descriptive regarding its time signatures. Destroy Glass Castles is in 10/8. Chlorophyll is somehow compound and totals to 17/8. Aaron has an overlapping structure and no percussion, so it's hard to determine. I simply couldn't figure out Bonitival, Cadmium Lung Jacket, Vida, Coke Ajax, Keek, and Bezcitny. This just goes to show how ridiculously complex the signatures are on this album. A Giant Alien Force More Violent & Sick Than Anything You Can Imagine is in 15/8. Dad from Winter in the Belly of a Snake is in 13/8, and Stairs Song is in 11/8 (there it is again!), In Quod is in 5/8, Sink Snow Angel in 10/8. We Are Oceans from Higgins is in 5/8. Breakfast Time for Babboons from Songs About My Cats is in 10/8. Pygmalion from Doll Doll Doll again in 11/8, Remi is too (VERY hard to follow though, until the strong kicks show up), I Rent the Ocean and Befriend a Childkiller 5/8, Pressure Torture in 10/8. Diffuse Vertigo Jenny from Salt is in 13/8. Like Tooth Decay from Greg Hates Car Culture is in 21/16. From there earlier, his work gets crazier and crazier, more uncountable chopped up speedcore. shchmue 23 August 2006

Thanks for working this all out, I'll be adding this helpful information to the album pages. Moskvax 08:02, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
one more thing, I don't understand what you mean by saying Nineteen 1319 has a self descriptive time signature? is it in 19/8 13/8 19/8 alternating or something? Moskvax 08:54, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
No problem, I love music theory and Venetian Snares. I wish I could finish the rest of his songs, and even moreso I wish I could see the original files on some of the freeform songs. THANK YOU SO MUCH for parsing through my wall of text and editing the articles; I'm not very comfortable with making fundamental changes to articles. You are awesome.
re: Nineteen 1319, yes, that is what I meant. I'm sorry I wasn't more explicit. I was sort of frustrated about the distressing proclamation on the front page regarding 11/8 when I delved into his discography that night, so I was being a little pretentious :P
Thanks again for your work! shchmue 04:12, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I think people are confusing their 8s and 4s here. The majority of the stuff in the first post is in (x)/4, not (x)/8. For instance, Snares most often works in 7/4, not 7/8. These 2 time signatures sound a LOT different. In most tracks, we can count 7 COMPLETE beats per bar which is 7/4 (albeit a very fast one). 7/8 would mean there were 3 and a half beats per bar. Snares does work in true 7/8 sometimes though, for instance, the slow bits in Deadman DJ. Usually when Snares uses a 7/8, he's doing a 'half-speed' bit in a track which is usually (i.e. the fast bits) at 7/4. (added by cron: 10/10/06)
I agree with cron here. Shall we change it? Sackosacko 11:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

YOU'RE IDIOTS HE USES NO FUCKING 15/8 OR 7/8 ITS ALL 4 BASED. 7/4. NO BREAKCORE IS SHUFFLED.

There is some x/8 stuff, almost always subdivided in to 4s, but x/8 nontheless. x/8 does not imply a shuffled feel either. Nor does CAPS enhance your point.
The Hospitality disc (released since I wrote the above) does have some x/8 stuff in it. Shoot Myself is in 11/8, and Beverley's Potatoe Orchestra alternates bars of 6/4 and 13/8, (25/8 if you're trying to be clever, and failing IMO). Hospitality itself contains sections in both 7/4 and 7/8. The rest is in his trusty 7/4.
Just for fun, the tracks listed from Huge Chrome Cylinder as uncountable in the first post on time signatures run as follows... Keek is in 10/4. Bezcitny is in '15/4' (subdivided as one bar of 8 then one of 7). Cadmium Lung Jacket is an extremely tricksy 23/8, couldn't find any way of reducing this, can anybody else? Coke Ajax is in a much easier '23/8', better expressed as alternating bars of 6/4 and 11/8. Both Bonivital (for the most part) and Vida are in the unusually exotic... wait for it... 4/4! (added by cron: 15/11/06)

I added a few more details about albums where there were none. Sackosacko 11:56, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

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