User talk:Vashti

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[edit] Welcome to the Wikipedia

Here are some links I thought useful:

Feel free to contact me personally with any questions you might have. Wikipedia:About, Wikipedia:Help desk, and Wikipedia:Village pump are also a place to go for answers to general questions. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: ~~~~.

Be Bold!

[[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]]) 12:14, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Research

Well firstly I intended to find people who were local on the Embracingmystery forum that didn't work out too well, the people didn't seem to welcome the idea. I then skimmed a few glances on www.vampirefreaks.com to find people local to me, i did find one. Who actually ironically happened to be someone I knew in real life. He had some contacts, some who claimed to be members of covens and so forth. I met them one night in a local park where they introducd me to their circle, of course this wasn't official interviewing. I asked for each of their numbers and wondered if they where interested for a coffee and interview. I asked them a series of questions and wrote them on a notebook in a coffee house on different days or visit their residence. My research isn't published, as it was merely my university professor asking us to do our chosen sociological assignment and to comment on group and individual behaviours. Sorry I can't be of anymore help i am not permitted to send research to third parties. Raddicks 07:54, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Okay, it's worthless for Wikipedia purposes, then. That's a shame, we get so many people talking about studies and asking for information, but none of them ever publish. Thanks anyway. :) Vashti 15:37, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] otherkin and nor policey potential page

youre better at wikipedia linkkings then i, would you please providethe requested link from the page section about possibly modifying policey to the otherkin page? i cant figure out how. Gabrielsimon 07:41, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Already done. I've cross-linked back to Talk:Otherkin as well. Vashti 07:52, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

thanks! ( gotta learn how to do that) Gabrielsimon 07:54, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Just put the section name after the page name separated by a hash, like so: User_talk:Vashti#otherkin and nor policey potential page. I hope... Vashti 07:57, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] sorry

about the archiving mixup... i guessa i overdid it... Gabrielsimon 10:56, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Meh, it happens, no worries. Vashti 11:00, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] spiritual movement

if im right ( and about these things, i usually am) that spirirutal movement tag will probly go back onthat article sooner or later, whnethe scale does increase. Gabrielsimon 11:06, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Well, when everyone agrees that otherkin are a spiritual movement, I'll put it back for you. But until that time comes, and until we stop being small and unknown even for a fringe group, I think "subculture" is much the best way of putting it. Vashti 11:08, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

i meaent no harm... but the nukbers of awakened ones are growing with each day. Gabrielsimon 11:10, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for your excellent input on Otherkin, by the way. I know we're on opposite sides of the inclusion/deletion fence here, but it's great to have meaningful discussion. This can only lead to a better article all around. A problem may be editors who come along, read the article, and think, "only the fake poseur Otherkin think that. REAL Otherkin are different..." and then go ahead and insert their own original research based on personal experience. Us poor folks with no involvement in otherkin community will have no basis whatever for evaluating such edits, and even those who DO have experience will only be able to evaluate them based on personal experience. And, I strongly feel that personal experience doesn't belong in the encyclopedia.

Also, and this is purely personal bias I admit, but treating forums and sites like www.sanguinarius.org as serious sources makes Wikipedia look bad. I'm not saying this is your fault or anything, mind you. You've already found some sources that are better (the Village Voice article is a WAY better source IMO), and that's certainly a step in the right direction. Hope I haven't offended, none of this is intended in any way as a personal attack or a judgement on otherkin. Yes, I've admitted I think it's a bit silly, but I'm trying to keep that bias seperate from concerns of OR and verifiability. Again, thank you for your civilized and informative input. Friday 14:58, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I have to admit that I'm reasonably convinced that I would be better placed doing some real original research off Wikipedia, on this topic; I don't think I can write the kind of article I want to here, or that I play nicely enough with others to thrive in a wiki setting. I'd like to think I could leave someone with an eye on policy and NPOV to monitor the Otherkin article; interested? Vashti 20:54, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

I was replying to you on Talk:Otherkin but then I saw this, and thought this should go here instead. You seem to me to be playing nice quite well; I hope you don't stop editing here. However, I must agree with you: it does sound like in order to really delve into the subject matter, another venue would be better. In theory, here we're supposed to rely entirely on decent sources that appeared first elsewhere. There just don't seem to be many of these yet.

I'm certainly willing to continue keeping an eye on it, although as you know, I have no expertise at all on the subject. Certainly I agree that we must be NPOV, so we have to document claims in a neutral and factual fashion, without attemping to judge their validity. Right now it looks to me like the article should shrink, since we can't say too much in detail without including sources that are IMO a step or two past dubious. Anyway, I suppose more specific discussion of the article really belongs on its talk page, so I'll be done here for now. Friday 21:39, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

PS. I'd like to see you publish elsewhere on this subject, even if it's on your own personal website. If we have to just use people's websites for sources, we should at least use good ones. Based on how you're writing here, I'd much rather use something you wrote than the sources currently being cited. Friday 21:44, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Errrr.... No original research, right? DreamGuy 01:02, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Well, we've been advised (on the NOR talk page, again) that decent quality websites can be used as sources, within reason. But you never know, I might go completely mad and write a book. It would certainly make my life a lot easier if someone did. Vashti 01:12, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Otherkin captions, from my talk page

On the subheads... "Preception of" instead of "alleged"? Well, perception is something actually through senses and not something internal to the brain, so it wouldn't really be accurate as I understand it. "Claims of", "alleged", or some completely other way of putting the subheads there would be better. DreamGuy 01:00, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

leaving them the way they are , however is like omitting the quote s areoundthe word vampire for every use of it, hes just trying to put in every way he can of " by the way they are wrong" its blatant bad faith. Gabrielsimon 01:02, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

(I do think he may have a point with this one, Gabriel.)

I don't like "alleged" or "claims of" either, but there must be some way of putting it that we can all agree on. How about "Spiritual belief", "Philosophical belief" and "Biological belief"? Vashti 01:08, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

This place could really use animated smiley icons so I could put up one rolling its eyes. DreamGuy 01:09, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Is that a yes or a no? Vashti 01:10, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

When I entered my comment I did not see your question yet. From the timing it looks like it must have popped right in there bewteen the time I loaded the page and read it and the time I hit edit and responded at the bottom, sorry about that. DreamGuy 02:39, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Oh, okay. I've been having a similar problem this evening. Vashti 02:44, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

who is he , some sort of undead spriitual expert? there is no such thing as an ALEGED spiritual differencce, because, if we are going that rout, theres no proof that spirits even exist. as for biological differences andthings, its in context, it should be left pristine. Gabrielsimon 01:11, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Hence the allegedly... DreamGuy 02:39, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

and with the rolly eyes comment its clear hes not taking this seriously, so why should we take him seriously? Gabrielsimon 01:12, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, there's the "good faith" rule, for a start. It makes it very hard to edit an article effectively when people are having personal wars over it. Vashti 01:14, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Can I also repeat Friday's comment, while I'm at it: please keep it off my talk page. Sankyu. Vashti 01:15, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

im just trying to get the facts trold without constant claims like " but scientists say..." becasue that has nothing to do with it, ya know? Gabrielsimon 01:16, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

(also, i aint trying to fight with anyone, im trying to be as cheerfull and hoopy as possible. Gabrielsimon 01:16, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

see, now i hadnt thought of the rewording... makes me feel umb... hopefully you do see what i was trying to prevent? Gabrielsimon 01:34, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

You're both as bad as each other, honestly! There are other ways to resolve problems than reverting six times in a row. Vashti 01:37, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

The new subheads go along with what I was getting at. Thanks. DreamGuy 02:39, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

No problem; hopefully we can sort out any other issues with the article too. Vashti 02:43, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

I think we can, I don't think what we discuss on the talk page is too far off fom each other. I would recommend though keeping conversation about that article to that article talk page, so it isn't spread out all over and attracting additional comments getting away from the issue, not to mention it gets confusing knowing what to respond to where. DreamGuy 02:53, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Otherkin medical section

Thanks, Vashti. It's definitely problematic. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 11:23, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Your version of Otherkin

IMO, User:Vashti/Otherkin is much better than what's currently in Otherkin. Also IMO, it's still original research, but at least it's good original research. At least some of the sources it uses look more reputable, to me. And I could be wrong about OR, I can't claim to be an expert there. I think you should be bold. I also think you should start publishing things on this topic on your own website too where you can do whatever you want. Friday 06:10, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

My theory that otherkin descended from the counterculture is entirely original research, and it's largely unsupported to boot, although I think I could justify completing the later sections and adding them in. It might take me a while though; let me think about it. Vashti 06:25, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

I second what Friday had to say, your Otherkin roundup is quite illuminating and interesting, I plan to pass it on to an Elenari friend of mine for her thoughts. I also hope you find some way to put the more concrete parts into the article.Kit 12:31:27, 2005-08-02 (UTC)

Thanks. :) Vashti 12:49, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Response to your question

Sure, I'm pleased to reply. The reference you provided: "Wikipedia is not censored", although it is on an official policy page, is not itself policy, it is an official caution that people may find things here they may not expect. The next paragraph (WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not a battleground) states the policy of appropriate conduct, "Every user is expected to interact with others civilly, calmly, and in a spirit of cooperation" and to "engage in polite discussion". That is the policy I was attempting to promote. Notice that the changes left it very clear what Simon's feelings were, yet as in any major public forum such as a newspaper, certain degree of decorum is expected. (See also the next paragraph "Wikipedia is not an anarchy") --Blainster 16:35, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Might the exact text of what he said not be important? Well, I don't think so, because most people should be able to infer what it was, and if they can't, the points of edit were identified and the history is there for them to see. --Blainster 16:59, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] from another talk page

suprisingly wise words... ever soncidered teaching Zen? Gabrielsimon 09:55, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

(also check a section on my talk opage called Problems)

Heh. :) I've never looked at Zen. I like what I've read about Taoism, though. Vashti 09:59, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

looking over the edit history at Otherkin==

I was looking at this articles edit history and I came across something strange. Why would Robots be included at one point, and why were they removed? Ketrovin 13:58, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Someone put it in or pushed for it to be put in, I think, saying that they'd encountered robotkin somewhere. It was later removed as being atypical of the topic and unsubstantiated. (IIRC) Vashti 14:01, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] i saw, so...

any hoo, forgive the editing of your user page, i was just inserting link marks for Religion and schizotypy. enjoy Ketrovin 17:28, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Attn Gavin

Your talk page is protected, so I'm leaving this here. You reverted the same change twice, making a total of four reverts on the one page within something like an hour. That's a revert war, in my book. I mentioned it to Slimvirgin in the hope that she might be able to have a word with you before you hit 3RR, but I see you've already been blocked for something else. Vashti 09:14, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Attn Vashti

Regarding the comment you left on my talk page: Please read the Wikipedia:Civility policy. Wikipedia:Assume good faith might help as well. Just a tip. DreamGuy 20:10, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your courteously provided pointers to Wikipedia policy. Can I suggest that you broaden your reading with some comparative religion; perhaps Matthew 7:4 in the New Testament might be a good starting point for you. Vashti 20:19, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Arbitration

I have put DreamGuy up for arbitratioon. addevidance at your convieniance, or just repair my formatting if it suits youGavin the Chosen 02:31, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Otherkin

I am happy to continue working with you to improve the Otherkin article. Another editor, however, has violated WP:NPA and WP:AGF repeatedly on my talk page. I would appreciate your assistance in keeping the WP:NOR violation "infinitesimal" off of the project page. I look forward to future positive momentum in the article. Hipocrite 03:50, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

its not a violation, there is a very small number, very very small, of delusional people in any group of peoole, thus, the number odf delusional people is in cat infantesmal. whres the lack of logic seen there? also, hipocrite has been very very rude, so i called him or her rude. OOO scarey... if he or she doesnt want me to call them rude, then they should not comport themselves in a rude manner. simple logic, no?Gavin the Chosen 03:54, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Gavin, I think it would be by far the best thing for the article if you didn't make personal attacks and behave so aggressively towards people you have disagreements with. Have another look at the messages you've been leaving, like the one above - how would you feel if someone else was taking this tone with you? The reason such approaches are against Wikipedia policy is that it alienates other editors, sets editors against each other and generally doesn't produce an atmosphere where constructive work can happen.

As for the use of "infinitesimal", I think it has to stay gone, and I'm going to tell you why. You recently made an edit that I had serious disagreements with, on the following grounds: firstly, that it has been my observation that people who believe they are biologically nonhuman are an extremely small - infinitesimal, you might say - section of the community, and simply saying "Otherkin may describe themselves..." indicates that the belief is a commonplace one. Secondly, that it is harder to argue the case (which I still believe to be valid) against the lycanthropy link being OR when the article itself claims that beliefs in physical nonhumanity are commonplace.

The reason I didn't immediately revert this change is that there are no numbers to support either case - therefore, giving any approximation of how many people hold the belief is original research. I have come around to thinking that the entire article needs to be rewritten, with only the claims that can be taken from published sources used. This will mean the article is small, but hopefully it will be able to grow in time.

Here's an example of how "infinitesimal" is not a neutral word:

An infinitesimal section of the population hold otherkin beliefs.

Have a look at that sentence. Do you think it's neutral? If not, why not? It certainly isn't a sentence that strikes me as neutral, even though it's factually correct. Vashti 09:12, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Testy, testy

You've made a personal attack on yourself here. I hope you're not offended by it. ;-) Friday (talk) 16:50, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

I think I deserve a few personal attacks for making a daft edit like that. If I get too offended, I'll just have to file an RfC against myself. ;) Vashti 16:52, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

Do let me know if you need a hand. I'd hate to see a good editor like you get chased off by a jerk like that Vashti character. Friday (talk) 17:39, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it's shocking she's been allowed to get away with it as long as she has. DOOM, I say. Vashti 17:46, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Good Job

You're a good Wikipedian: levelheaded, polite, helpful, and funny. Here, have a barnstar. Friday (talk) 04:51, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Gosh. Thank you. My very own barnstar, wow. :) Vashti 09:02, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] DreamGuy

Hi. The RfAr for DreamGuy has begun; are you still interested? ‣ᓛᖁᑐ 03:01, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm so enjoying my vacation ... so much peace and quiet, nobody yelling at me... I'll have a look. :) Vashti 11:18, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Adrian Mole

You're right that the series as a whole is not a series of children's books any longer. The first two (arguably three) books were certainly marketed to and heavily read by children, though, wherever the series has gone since. I've added Category:Children's book to the stub for the first book (there is no stub for the second), which I think is accurate. Deborah-jl _Talk 17:32, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User:Cardiff

After checking this users contribns, their appears to be a systematic pattern of non-NPOV edits to a number of prominent Welsh articles, including Prince of Wales and Saint David's Day. This pattern includes this user, plus some anonymnous edits. This includes removing the Welsh-born princes from the list of princes on Prince of Wales.

Any thoughts on dealing with this, beyond simple reverts? I think this merits taking further steps.Econrad 19:19, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

A pattern of POV edits like this is usually considered vandalism, I think. I'll have a look at reporting it. Vashti 19:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay. An NPOV dispute is not vandalism, but we can't resolve this edit war when he won't discuss anything, and he's at it again. If you haven't already done it :) I'll revert him, and I've listed Cardiff for protection. Vashti 19:34, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cardiff

I was just reverting the information that was removed during the dispute on the talk page that wasnt fully reverted. Betacommand 20:31, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

no problem thats what the sport Vandal Fighting is for. :) Betacommand 20:37, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comepletely Irrelevant Question...

...but does your username refer to Vashti Bunyan? --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 23:12, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

No, it's from the Bible. :) Vashti 07:16, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Slightly more important, haha. Had to ask. See you around. --badlydrawnjeff (WP:MEMES?) 12:42, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I've put one of her CDs on hold at the local library, if that helps. :) Vashti 13:30, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] Nice work!

Thanks for going through that List of English words of Welsh origin and pruning it. It looked a little optimistic to me when I saw it, but I couldn't be certain. A full OED makes all the difference. I've added a couple more to the talk page, but don't feel required to do anything with them; they're just for the next person to stumble across them, really. Telsa (talk) 09:08, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm on a wikibreak again at the moment (just here to quickly look something up), but I get the free access through Cardiff library's online catalogue. Maybe yours has something similar? Vashti 10:25, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:AID

Hi. Thanks for voting on the Article Improvement Drive. I noticed you added the image Example.jpg to the article. What was the reason for doing this? For now, I've removed it, because it didn't seem relevant to the vote (plus, it made the maintenance bot unhappy). Pruneau 10:27, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I think you're mistaken, I didn't add any images to the article. ... except the diff says I did. That's very strange indeed. Sorry about that, I can't think what could have happened. Vashti 12:28, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SSSSSSSSSSSSShhhhhhhh

Go away. Don't use my userpage again for any reason. You have been warned. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bazzajf (talk • contribs).

As you wish. You've had your warning. Vashti 16:37, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More gratitude

Thanks for looking after my user page while I was away. Looks like the message got through in the end… --Stemonitis 07:34, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I think he just got fed up after being blocked for 24 hours. Same net effect, though. :) Vashti 08:03, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Interesting suppositions, I was merely away on a weekend break, it was a bank holiday here in Ireland and the weather's great, the ban could not of been timed better, thanks guys. Bazzajf 11:52, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] And more gratitude

Vashti, you've done a terrific job in updating and researching the Doris Stokes article. You've managed to keep it neutral without resorting to the outright dismissal. Well done for an edit that is both balanced and fair. Yallery Brown 12:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AID

Thank you for your support of the Article Improvement Drive.
This week Recycling was selected to be improved to featured article status.
Hope you can help…

[edit] Leeroy Jenkins Edit

Hello Vashti, thanks for your question. I removed the sections by user 68.228.220.40 for a number of reasons. I feel that they were not contributing any information to the article that couldn't be gained from watching the original video, also, Leeroy has been through a lot of edits in the last year and that particular paragraph is the final result of lots of wrangling, arguement and compromise. Finally, the Leeroy quote in that paragraph was incorrect and I changed it back to the accepted form. If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask --Crais459 07:24, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Please feel free to replace the entry, but might I suggest the following compromise?

"The video clip is a computer recording of the game World of Warcraft. The clip begins with a dozen players, including Leeroy, planning a raid on The Rookery: a part of the instance dungeon Upper Blackrock Spire. The leader of the group questions whether this daring encounter is really necessary, and is answered by a guild member informing him that Leeroy needs the an item from the rookery to improve his healing abilities. Reluctantly, the players converse over Ventrilo before entering combat. Leeroy, apparently away from his computer during these planning stages, remains quiet as they are discussing tactics (which players of the game will recognize to be comically poor). Just as they are calculating the possible rate of survival for the attack, he suddenly springs to life shouting his battle cry: "All right chums, I'm (back), let's do this! LEEROOOOOOOY!!! JENKIIIIIINSSSSSS!!!". He then charges fearlessly into The Rookery, to the complete and utter incredulity of his teammates. Attempting to save him, they follow him in and are quickly overwhelmed by the whelplings, unable to stick to the plan."--Crais459 20:13, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] British and British isles

Hi, quick explanation of the "British" bit. It has been discussed alot on the discussion pages, but they are practically unusable because of the general chit chat. According to the OED "British" has had two meanings: the first and older refers to the pre-Roman inhabitants of Britain, the second to the modern (after 1600) political entity. In other circumstances the careful wording would be pedantry, and in modern English the second definition is dominant (though the first one is still used). However in this case it is the nub of the conflict: "British Isles" owes its name to the first definition (hence it is uncontroversial in the UK); the objecting editors cannot see past the second definition and put everything in terms of modern politics- hence the unhelpful sparring. The use of can got some acceptance in the past. Hope that makes a little sense. As with all these controversial namings, the story behind the controversy is actually much more interesteing than the sterile ranting that takes place. I must confess that I am beginning to give up with this page- it all too often seems to be a dialogue of the deaf, though perhaps the new people like yourself will be able to encourage people to concentrate on content rather than warring. MAG1 14:30, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unitarian Jihad

Thought you might like to know this article has been nominated for deletion. If you like it (you liked it well enough to comment on the Talk page...), you might want to click over to the link and suggest reasons why it should not be deleted.
Septegram 21:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

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