User talk:Varana

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Hello, Varana. Welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) will produce your name and the current date. You should always sign talk pages but not articles. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Ann Heneghan (talk) 19:39, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the welcome. :) Varana 12:56, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Maxentius

Comments have been added to Talk:Maxentius/Comments. As it stands the article could be of B quality if references were given. It could be of GA or A quality if the lead was larger and references were given for most of the article and if the prose would become compelling. Apart from these few advices and comments please feel free to ask for more information and help if unsure. Lincher 14:07, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Constantine I

Hi there - I noticed you replaced the category 'Deified Roman Emperors' in the article. As Constantine abolished the Imperial cult, and no senate or emperor after his death even attempted to deify him, I don't see where the deification comes in. Certainly nobody built temples in his honour. Unless you're referring to his being venerated as a saint... InfernoXV 17:43, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Actually, Constantine was made divus, i.e. deified, after his death, and this practice continued for the whole century (even Theodosius I was made divus). This is testified by both coinage (for instance, this one), and Eusebius describing exactly these coins. (And probably inscriptions, too, though I can't think of an example right now, but will look for one, if you want.) Constantine remained pontifex maximus of all Romans, including pagans; while he personally became Christian, he didn't abolish the imperial cult (we have an inscription from the town of Hispellum: Constantine grants the town's wish to build a temple to the Flavian dynasty, he only forbids bloody sacrifices). Certainly, his deification was not emphasized by his Christian sons and is rarely mentioned in literary sources, as virtually all later pro-Constantinian sources are Christian, but it happened. Action of the Senate was required only formally, if at all, and was certainly obtained if necessary (Constantius I could be called divus right after his death in Britain). While the Senate and Constantine might have been not on the best of terms sometimes, the Senate never had any power to defy any emperor's wishes in Constantinian times. Constantine might have been pro-Christian, but above all, he was a realist when it came to power, who ruled an Empire with a still considerable pagan population, and it shouldn't be surprising that he catered to both Christians and Pagans. (Apart from that: our modern view of strictly opposed, confronting sides doesn't do justice to Late Antique reality; there was a large area of overlapping and common ground. Christian Saint and pagan Deified Emperor is typical for Constantinian religious politics.) Varana 19:32, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
A palpable hit! Good one, I hadn't realised or noticed that. I checked my coins and found you were right. Thanks for the info! InfernoXV 11:39, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thankyou!

Thanks for your fascinating contributions to the Byzantine discussion at Talk:Byzantine Empire. I appreciate the polite and friendly way you have contributed to the discussion, and also I must thank you for helping me by producing an excellent map of the partition of the Byzantine Empire in the Fourth Crusade. Thankyou very much! :) Best wishes, Bigdaddy1204 22:43, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New map?

Is there any chance that you would be able to create another map for Byzantine Empire? Ideally, I am looking for a map similar to this one, but showing the empire in about 867AD:

Enlarge

Would this be possible? Bigdaddy1204 15:35, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


Heya,
certainly, though not before the weekend. :)
By "similar to this one", do you mean also looking like your series of maps, i.e. the Empire in red on the yellow landmass (to keep "corporate identity" *g*), or in the vein of the Latin Empire map? Varana 16:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


Hi again, I've made a new map now which can be seen here: [[1]]. Yes I meant following the yellow and red maps so as to make it part of the series. Tell me what you think of the new map (be honest :) ).

Is there any chance you would be able to produce an animated map? Combining all the following Byzantine Empire maps:

  • Image:Byzantium550.png
  • Image:ByzantineEmpire717AD.png
  • Image:ByzantineEmpire867AD3.PNG
  • Image:1025AD.PNG
  • Image:Byzantium1095.jpg
  • Image:John'sEmpire.jpg
  • Image:Byzantium in 1170(3).PNG
  • Image:Byzantium1270.jpg

Also, do you think we should have a map of the empire in 476AD? Otherwise, people reading the article at Byzantine Empire might get confused and think it started out at Justinian's size... What do you think? Bigdaddy1204 17:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Byzantine vs Eastern Roman empire

Hi Varana. I made some additions in 'Byzantine Greeks', a section in language and some copyediting. I experimentally removed a reference on the languages such as Arabic, Slavic, Armenian etc, simply because they weren't spoken by the people we call 'Byzantines', but by people who were frequently their subjects and frequently their enemies. For example by "Romans" we mean a specific group of people, of a specific language and civilisation, and not all peoples of Roman citizenship. Considering how all ancient and medieval Empires are treated, I find it biased to make an exception out of Byzantium. The post-Byzantine Greeks for example, who are occasionally named "Ottoman Greeks", were the worst enemies of the "Ottoman", and not Ottomans themselves. And eventhough the Ottoman citizenship was given to muslims of the Ottoman Empire (whether arabic, Slavic or Kurdish), the 'Ottomans' by default are the Turkish-speaking citizens. I'm saddened by some editors biased attempts to present the Byzantine Greeks or Byzantines as a medieval civilisation with no identity which suddenly disappeared after the sack of Constantinople. I think we would resolv our dispute if we drew a line between the "Eastern Roman" and "Byzantine" Empires like most historians do. As Ostrogorsky puts it, the 7th century marks the transition from the Eastern Roman to the Medieval Greek (Byzantine) Empire. Eventhough their articles are the same, we editors should make it clear that within specific context, they are not synonymous entities. Regards. Miskin 23:00, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


Hi Varana. I'm not throwing around exaggeration, maybe that's not your personal opinion but it's the opinion of others such as Roydosan. If you look into Anglophone sources you'll find out that "Byzantine Greek" is in wide use, without referring to a specific "Greek ethnic" group of the Byzantines. They refer by default to the Byzantines. Other sources use simply "Greeks", and I called it pragmatic because it was the de facto ethnonym used by the non-Byzantines to refer to them (and and a lesser degree by Byzantines). Miskin 18:02, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

"The Byzantine Empire rules over Byzantine people, and a subject of the Emperor is a Byzantine."
Personally, I don't agree with this sentence for the simple reason that e.g. "Celtic" and "Greek" ethnonyms were always present within the Roman Empire that you used as an example, independently of citizenship. In Byzantium however there's no "Greek" identity separate to that of "Byzantine". Secondly it's clearly not how it is viewed by scholars, as it is shown in my earlier citations. Byzantine is not "Jew, Slav, Arab" or any culture of the Empire. It's any "Greek or Hellenized" person of the empire, independently of ethnic origin. Miskin 18:09, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Byzantine Empire

Hello! I am eager to know what you think about the latest proposal at Talk:Byzantine Empire. There is a vote about whether or not we should change the Byzantine Empire from pink to purple in all the maps of the article. I would be very happy to see your support or object, or even comment on this issue. Please let us know what you think! Thanks, Bigdaddy1204 13:28, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

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