Talk:Usagi Tsukino/Archive 01

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[edit] Hoax description of the name added by user Dasrik

I am not a frequent user of Wikipedia, nor am I very fluent in English, but I am definitely sure that the standard would be improved if any edits by user Desrik, a permanently blocked vandal, is removed. He mainly added (in every scouts' articles) that "野", no in Japanese means "field" and the common belief that no means of the is incorrect, but the fact is that this no is used intentionally to mean both. Therefore I pledge to revert his edits.--218.191.131.92 20:03, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

The claim that her name meaning is "Rabbit of the Moon" is erroneous, he may have vandalized other aspects but the claim that 野 should translate to field is correct. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.254.64.14 (talk • contribs) .

Actually, no. Tsuki no usagi does (as the article currently correctly states) mean "rabbit of the moon". (Or "rabbit in the moon", by parallel with our "Man in the Moon", if you like.) The "field" meaning of 野 is completely irrelevant; likely the only reason Takeuchi-san used 月野 instead of 月乃 (乃 being the old kanji form of the genitive particle) is because 月乃 is a personal name, not a family name. In point of fact I would go so far as to say that, in this context, the fact that 野 usually means "field" is non-notable.  –Aponar Kestrel (talk) 02:56, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
You know, you could think of the 野 character in her name as functioning as a 外字.  Denelson83  03:11, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Um. Do you perhaps mean 当て字?  –Aponar Kestrel (talk) 03:17, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes. That is a *much* better term. I used 外字 because that was the Japanese word closest to this concept that I knew.  Denelson83  03:29, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
野 stands also for "civilian", which you can find on this dictionary: http://linear.mv.com/cgi-bin/j-e/dict
(you can also find it on his kanji version.) It's a pun of sorts. Like Clark Kent is the "civilian" form of Superman. So is Tsukino Usagi a "civilian" form of Sailormoon/ Princess Serenity. The "field" definition is irrelevant, it's the "civilian"/"domestic" part that makes it into a pun. Just like the kanji for the first part of "ami" is a pun. the "a" part means Asian, but it also obscurely means second. Ami was also the second senshi to appear in the SM series. Takeuchi loved word puns, you just have to be sharp enough to get them. The proper kanji for "of" is stated above--乃 which is also used in last names, however the 野 stands for civilian as well which is what it quantifies. It was also explained on Ken Aromdee's SM FAQ. But I think the dictionary will be more useful for verification. There was a loose vote to move the name explanations to a page along with any side pages that would be needed onto one page Like Sailor Moon Lore or some such. That'll be discussed on the Wikiproject I suspect. But that's the full explanation there.--Hitsuji Kinno 04:16, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I cannot support your claim that 野 means "civilian". WWWJDIC only gives one translation for 野, and it is "field". The dictionary link you gave is defective, and it is not user-friendly. --  Denelson83  22:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Who's this Bob guy, and why is he surly?

Hey, Surly Bob, thanks for all the articles, but, er, could you please be a little less stubborn about signing "your" articles? They aren't yours. They're the project's, i.e., everybody's. See Wikipedia:Most common Wikipedia faux pas for a little more on this.

Also, isn't that Sailor Moon image you uploaded copyrighted? That's a no-no.

Surly, can you draw? I guess it would be no problem to display your own rendition of the character. Or is the character still protected under the copyright regardless of who draw it?

Finally, the article should begin with a definition, not with a list of irrelevancies that make it appear (until you get to the picture) that the person is a real person. See the perfect article (not to say articles gotta be perfect--they don't--see editing policy--but anyway, that's roughly what we're aiming at. --Larry_Sanger

[edit] The old name argument

Based on the TokyoPop manga, this should be moved to "Bunny Tsukino", the character's name in the TokyoPop manga. WhisperToMe 13:15, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I've moved it back. See Talk:Sailor Moon. Naoko Takeuchi, the creator and originator of Sailor Moon, overrides TokyoPop. --Wikiwikifast 04:21, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Erm, no. This is not the Japanese Wikipedia. This is the English Wikipedia. Since no publication of Sailor Moon uses any Japanese names, one must use the English names (but with Yu-Gi-Oh and Dragon Ball Z, the manga published by Viz uses the Japanese names so they are fair game for that). WhisperToMe 06:34, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

This page should be at "Tsukino Usagi" because that means "the rabbit of the moon" (a pun). Kappa 17:20, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Negative. All names of Japanese people in the English Wikipedia are westernized, meaning given name first. --  Denelson83  01:25, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, the official uncut DVDs use "Usagi" in the subs. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.64.92.96 (talk • contribs) 22:50, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Googlefight! Googlefight! At a score of 134,000 results to 25,500 results Usagi Tsukino wins over Bunny Tsukino. Teh Shingen 04:38, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nonencyclopedicity

Well, at least the "Which name?" debacle is over and done with. (See Talk:Sailor Moon for details on that.) Reading through I notice that the article isn't really very encyclopedic. I realize that the information I've put under the heading of "Statistics" is commonly found in character profiles and fan pages -- but this isn't a character shrine, it's an encyclopedia article. Surely there's some way to present it more objectively? The "least favorite food" bit should stay, somehow, even if we have to paragraphize it. --Aponar Kestrel 04:52, 2004 Jul 31 (UTC)

  • As far as I know the character profile is an official one, though I don't know where it's from. Maybe find out the source and list it as being from there? Purplefeltangel 07:06, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Page move?

Not many english folks are used and/or likely to type in "Usagi Tsukino", so I was thinking if we could move the page Usagi Tsukino to either Serena Tsukino, or maybe Sailor Moon (character), huh?--Roadrunner3000 19:38, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't think so. The original civilian name is the most appropriate choice, and since Japanese names are westernized in the English Wikipedia, "Usagi Tsukino" is the correct title for this article.  Denelson83  19:58, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Oh yeah, then how com the Ash Ketchum article has the english name for its title, huh? and look at Veemon, called "V-mon" in Japenese, would you have made up your mind then?!--Roadrunner3000 03:59, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Well, the original civilian name is the most appropriate choice for this article, because it is the name I believe most English-speaking people actually know this character by.  Denelson83  06:06, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

I vote for keeping it as it is now. -- RattleMan 05:27, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, you probably wondering why I moved this page from Usagi Tsukino to Serena Tsukino, because like you all said the common name is accepted, BUT IN ENGLISH, ONLY!!! See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English), and it mentions, "If you are talking about a person, country, town, movie or book, use the most commonly used English version of the name for the article, as you would find it in other encyclopedias and reference works." And I had never heard of the name "Usagi Tsukino" ever in my life, but heard the name "Serena" numerous times. I hope that answers your question.--Roadrunner3000 19:38, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

And I have moved it back. I only associate the surname of "Tsukino" with #1's Japanese given name, not her English one.  Denelson83  22:25, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
  • The Yu-Gi-Oh! character articles redirect to the Japanese names, so so much for your argument. Danny Lilithborne 21:02, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
    • The Yu-Gi-Oh! character articles use the Japanese names because that's the version that the English manga uses. Due to the fact that this is the English version of Wikipedia, after all, it's required that the official English names be used. In the Yu-Gi-Oh! universe, the manga trumps the anime in terms of officiall...ness, so the names from the manga are used for the articles as opposed to the names from the English anime. If there's something in the Sailor Moon universe that's more official than the dubbed anime that uses the name Usagi and not Serena, then Usagi is the acceptable name for the article. If not, it needs to be moved to Serena. Geg 02:21, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
    • After a bit of research: Well then, since the only official manga translation so far mostly used the names from the English anime, the character articles need to be moved to their respective English names as per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English), at least until a more accurate translation with the Japanese names is released, if that ever does happen. Geg 02:34, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Before someone reads this comment and decides to move the page again: please consider a comparison of "Usagi Tsukino" and "Serena Tsukino" -- at time of writing, "Serena Tsukino" had 16,300 hits, whereas "Usagi Tsukino" had 163,000. (And about 3,000 pages use both, which makes the ratio even more unbalanced if those are discarded.) Per WP:MOS-JA#Names, it stays at Usagi. (And it might be a good idea to read the section of that page that references WP:UE, for the sake of context.)  –Aponar Kestrel (talk) 02:56, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] At the end of the series is Usagi still Sailor Moon?

  • According to her, yes. Danny Lilithborne 20:25, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
    Absolutely, she is. Once a senshi, always a senshi.  Denelson83  22:34, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

So she kept her memory? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.200.34.179 (talk • contribs) 16:59, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes.  Denelson83  17:18, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
At the end of season 1, she did lose her memory. This was restored in season 2 by Luna. Kyaa the Catlord 18:42, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Well, she didn't "lose" her memory in that sense of that word at the end of *series* one. She asked her crystal, as if it was her soul, to lock it away in the back of her mind, and her memory was, as I would say, "compressed and encrypted."  Denelson83  22:48, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] what happen in 30th centrey

what happend to earth in the 30th centrey in sailor moon r it said that the erth was frozon and in 30th centry neo queen serenti saved the world so what happend —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.169.2.130 (talk • contribs) 13:35, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

That information was never disclosed. Tuxedo Mask asked Sailor Pluto the same question in the anime and she basically said that knowing too much of the future isn't a good thing and that one should pretty much live in the present and let events unfold naturally. -SaturnYoshi 06:04, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

darn! i dont think we will ever know Sailor cuteness 16:56, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Screencaps and WikiRules

This page is in violation of Wikipedia rules - especially since we want to avoid copyright infringement. One screencap per article is allowed. I suggest that some of them are deleted. strideranne 23:06, 1 April 2006 (UTC)Strideranne

  • Deleted screencap excess

[edit] Sailor Moon Photo

Someone has to come to an agreement on what is the proper Sailor Moon photo to place on this page and why that should be the case. I have seen several different photos here over the past week or so. JRHorse 19:37, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I would like to see #1 in her original senshi uniform, from the first anime series.  Denelson83  21:42, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't care what particular picture is used on the header, as long as they are all uniform (with other articles). I would also appreciate it if all major forms are represented somewhere on the page, especially that of the manga, which is sadly lacking. strideranne 22:56, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sailor Senshi outfit construction

Can someone provide information about the deconstruction of the Sailor Senshi outfits? --User:Angie Y.

They wave their wands and shout their phrases, and k seconds' worth of stock footage later, their uniforms have assembled around and on them? I'm not sure what you're looking for. If you want information on how to make a Senshi uniform, Wikipedia isn't the right place for that.  –Aponar Kestrel (talk) 14:29, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
Remember, #1 doesn't have a wand for transformation, she has a brooch. And that 'stock footage' you see doesn't actually reflect a transformation in real-time. It's just "fan service".  Denelson83  21:51, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

but in the lift when usagi transformed infront of tuxedo mask it was in real time it showed him looking when she was transforming —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sailor cuteness (talk • contribs) 19:48, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Continuity glitch. --Masamage 00:05, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
It's just the way the scene was cut together. "Actual" henshins are performed similar to Chibiusa's in Sailor Moon S and Michiru's in The Distant Days of Uranus episode. Also in Sailor Moon S. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 00:08, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I knew there was a specific example! Thank you. :) (PGSM is also full of instant transformations.) --Masamage 00:10, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Don't forget #2's running transformation in the PGSM episode where #1 is possessed by a youma. --  Denelson83  00:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Sailor V does it, too. Then, getting back to the anime, there's Haruka's very quick intentional detransformation in the S series. --Masamage 00:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, rose petals and "such".  ;P -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 00:48, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
...Such? --Masamage 01:05, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Rosey cheeks... -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 01:09, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Cheeks! I see. ^_^;; --Masamage 01:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Character article names: Real names or code names?

Hey this may have been done to death in the past (but frankly I'm not gonna read thru the huge archive to see if it has when I wanna rant about this *now*, sorry.) but I personally really hate that all the sailor senshi are listed under their real names rather than their title (Usagi Tsukino rather than Sailor Moon). I find the titles much easier to remember than the real names and the titles are what the characters are mostly known as. And the same convention has been applied to the Tokyo Mew Mew characters! Blech. As I am much less familiar with those characters and as I find Japanese names quite hard to remember (Japanese not being my native language and all). I find it very difficult indeed to know which character is which. I don't see what's wrong with 'Sailor Moon' or 'Mew Lettuce'. Whoever made the decision to use real names as the page titles took a very poor decision in my opinion. After all the anime is called 'Sailor Moon' *not* 'Usagi Tsukino'. Personally I think the real names should be noted in the body of the article and not as the title. The vast majority of people know the characters by their titles not by their real names. It is like having the Superman article under 'Clark Kent' or the Batman article under 'Bruce Wayne' It's confusing and it isn't what the characters are commonly called.-Skybluepink —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.108.57.14 (talk • contribs) 18:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, no, it's not. There is an article Clark Kent, as well as an article Superman. Likewise there is an article Usagi Tsukino, as well as an article Sailor Moon. In each case the first article is (mostly) about the character, the second is (mostly) about the series.
That said, this isn't much of a rule: Bruce Wayne, Billy Batson, and Peter Parker are all redirects to the appropriate pages (or in Parker's case, a disambiguation page). And I can't really count The Flash or Green Lantern, since both of those titles appear to have been held by three different people.
It's hard to tell what percentage of "Sailor Moon" hits on Google are really referring to the character and how many are referring to the series. I don't think I'd support a move to Sailor Moon (character), but I wouldn't particularly object either. (I could have sworn this has come up before... but then, hasn't everything?)  –Aponar Kestrel (talk) 01:46, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Serena Campbell"

This is likely to come up again in the future, as some people seem to think that it's an official name. Serena Campbell is the English name chosen for Usagi in this fan-made audioplay, which seems never to have gotten off the ground. (Amusingly, this is the next-to-last Google hit for "Serena Campbell".)  –Aponar Kestrel (talk) 22:49, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

To tell the truth, Campbell is the unofficial family name for Serena and Shingo in anime and/or manga. --PJ Pete

[edit] Princesses Article

Just so you all know, I've made a new article at Princesses (Sailor Moon). The merge notices are gone now, because that group of stubs has been cleared up. Now that it's done, please feel free to edit and cite to your heart's content! ^_^

My main question is this. Should the 'Princess Serenity' page continue to redirect to Usagi Tsukino, or should it redirect to the Princesses article? I'm interested in your thoughts. -Masamage 21:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Monsters stuttering

There have been a lot of edits lately changing the things the monsters yell out to "Beautyful!" or "Love-lovely!" or similar. Since a lot of people think that's better, and a lot of people apparently don't like it, we ought to decide. Let me begin the soundoff by announcing that I have no opinion. :) --Masamage 00:24, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

  • If it's going to be a point of contention, I'd rather not have it at all. It's just a silly piece of non-notable information bordering on fancruft. Danny Lilithborne 00:49, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
While I'm not so sure about "Beautyful!", in the anime all the Daimohn defeated with Rainbow Moon Heartache say "Love-lovely!" --SaturnYoshi 06:22, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Prove it. --  Denelson83  09:03, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Watch the anime. Starting with when Mimete came onto the scene. --SaturnYoshi 05:44, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Porky Pig's catchphrase is listed as "That's all folks", not "D-d-d-d-d-that's all folks". So the monsters should be listed as saying "Lovely". It's not that hard to get. Danny Lilithborne 05:50, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

It's not really stuttering. It just an after effect of the powered up move. --SaturnYoshi 06:08, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Whether or not that's true is really only known to the Toei people; Naoko probably didn't even have anything to do with it. I'm afraid I'll have to vote "confusing" on this one. --Masamage 16:20, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and one more thing. The link to the Porky Pig article that Danny Lilithborne tried to use in his argument clearly lists "Th-th-th-that's all folks!" as the character's catchphrase. So that reasoning just became moot. -SaturnYoshi 06:24, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
D'oh. Well, I stand by what I said about it being controversial. Danny Lilithborne 06:31, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Here's something that may clear something up. Look at the very bottom (blue) "Side Note". -- RattleMan 06:42, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

"The new dying catchphrase". As I've said from the beginning... -SaturnYoshi 06:47, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Still unsubstantiated. The only way we'll really settle this dispute is an acquisition of an audio recording. --  Denelson83  07:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
You know, I must be able to see into the future or something. Right after I posted that SMU bit, I went to my DVDs and started recording. Here you go. (some people often have trouble playing my mp3s; try playing in Winamp) -- RattleMan 07:23, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Sounds like "love-lovely" to me. --Coredesat talk. ^_^ 07:27, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Well then. I believe that my point has been proven. -SaturnYoshi 23:53, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Information clean up

"Princess Serenity lived on the Moon Kingdom 1000 years ago" that was dub! There is no precedent in the manga or anime for this 1000 years thing to be true. It was all dub made. The original anime said A very long time ago. The manga doesn't even mention a time contxt and there is a certain amount of evidence that Sailor Saturn restarted the evolution of the Earth. This would either be badly classified or fancruft/fanon. Does anyone have verification for this or should it be deleted?

"It was the job of the Moon Kingdom to watch over the Earth and protect it with the Mystical Silver Crystal. Princess Serenity was very beautiful, adventurous and friendly; her guardians, attendants, instructors and best friends were the Inner Sailor Senshi who lived on the Moon with her: Sailor Mercury, Sailor Venus, Sailor Mars and Sailor Jupiter." Too much speculation in that one. First of all it was the job of the moon according to the manga to watch over the Earth and its evolution, Volume 3,Act 10 orf the roginal, quoted from the Shinzoubon here:

Queen Serenity: -We were life forms born on the moon with longevity. -Our mission was to protect the holy stone handed down on the moon, the Phantom Silver Crystal, -and to monitor Earth to remove negative factors and help it evolve in a positive direction.

removing negative factors and helping the evolution doesn't mean that the crystal was involved. There is no precedent for Princess Serenity in the manga being "adventurous and friendly". She was curious, but those are gross over generalizations. There is some precendent in the anime for her being graceful and being good at certain "womanly" sports. There is also no evidence that the guardians were also attendants. Rather Princess Serenity was getting help from Mercury about her studies, but there is no direct evidence that the others were helping her either. (this was covered in volume 2). The guardians also seemed to be her only friends, so I don't know about "best" friends.

"Afterwards, the cat (who could talk, and who was named Luna) gave her a magical device" quanitify device... compact? broach?

"Though at first the very definition of the term "reluctant heroine"" Isn't this a bit pretentious in the wording?

"as time went on she grew in both confidence and maturity, largely out of love for the friends who fought at her side -- though even late in the metaseries she would still have her "crybaby" moments." run-on and a bit difficult... it doesn't convey what it wants to say. That is Usagi grew from a crybaby to being mature through fighting for love and her friends. Even as she matured she would still have moments when she was a crybaby. The fact her friends fought by her side can be added earlier in the article.

"Usagi lives at her home in the real-life suburb of Azabu Juuban " Confusing.

"she is also the only senshi with a sibling" clarify since in Parallel Sailormoon not of canon, Chibiusa has Kousagi.

"It is used to distinguish her from Sailor Cosmos, the Sailor Moon of the future time of Chaos." This doesn't belong here since it's not proven, nor established. It should be deleted. Plus there is a big difference between the title, "Sailor Moon" and Usagi.

"Eternal Sailor Moon is not necessarily immortal, as she comes very close to death in her battle with Sailor Galaxia (first, her Star Seed is taken from her, then her sailor fuku unravels into shiny red ribbons, a common element of most of Sailor Moon's transformation sequences). She still relies on the ginzuishou (Silver Crystal) as the source of her power; if it is shattered (as it was during the series), she is weakened to the point of immobility." fancruft. First of all in the manga, according to Volume 14, acts 41-42 it well establishes she has another crystal in her hands. In the anime while the name of the crystal is embedded into attacks it is not named. (Does anyone have precedent of her calling it the ginzuishou in sailor stars? That whole stuff about being immortal doesn't belong in there either... why does it matter? If it's important, move it to something like Sailor Senshi lore page where you can deal with all the Sailor Senshi outer stuff, the places, name conventions, etc.

"saga" should be changed to arc. STARS should be changed to Stars. All reference to TP/Mixx should be confined to TP/Mixx.

"Silver Moon Crystal Eternal Power — A manga-only attack that summons the Sailor Crystals to destroy Chaos." Are you sure it's the Sailor Crystals? Do we have proof of that. It looks like lights to me... even in the shinzoubon.

Just giving some food for thought to clean this article up. I didn't want to make changes without approval first. I'd like to get this article at least cleaned, and then get it up to par with the rest by using citations, etc. But first info clean up.

--Hitsuji Kinno 03:30, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I think those sound like excellent, noncontroversial changes, so go right ahead. :) A few notes, though:
I think calling the other Senshi Princess Serenity's "closest friends" would be the best way to go. We have no idea whether or not they were her only friends; she probably had friendly courtier acquaintences or something. That, and "best friends" is a shopping-mall term, not an ancient-moon-kingdom term. :)
For the sibling thing, I recommend: 'she is also the only major Senshi with a sibling'. The word "major" means we don't have to deal with the Kousagi issue, besides which Sailors Lethe/Mnemosyne and Chi/Phi are twins. And who knows about the Starlights.
STARS should be changed to Sailor Stars if talking about the anime, or to STARS if talking about the manga. (Italics make it less shouty.) When it's unclear or doesn't matter which version, I try to say "the fifth major story arc" or something similar.
We also really need some organization to make this match the other ones in appearance. I'll give that a shot right now, and try to resist touching the text itself too much.
Otherwise, all your suggestions look excellent! Thanks! :) --Masamage 17:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I did the reorganization. It still needs 'Variations' and 'Music' sections, as the template article has; I put those headers inside comments for now. Also, when you go through it, could you change everything to present tense? That would be a major help! :) Thanks again for your cleanup ideas; you know a lot more details than I do. --Masamage 18:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Should the info about the Silver Millenium and the fall of it belong here? I would think it would be better to move most of that info either to the Silver Millenium sub section or enmiies, or split it off.--Hitsuji Kinno 17:50, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I think the fall of the Silver Millennium is pretty well covered. Anything more about it that we're missing over there should be moved there (unless it's more about Serenity than about the Moon Kindom). Only stuff specifically about Princess Serenity should stay here--like her love for the Earth and Endymion, her suicide, etc.
By the way, I left most of the suggestions you made undone, in case you want to do them. If you don't want to, I'd be more than happy, but I don't want to just dive in an steal your thunder. X) --Masamage 18:36, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
I did the major cleanup. Word flow, taking out pretentious wording, present tense (fix anything I miss?) tightening up, and info correcting, plus some asking for citations and adding of volume references. I don't know the anime well enough to reference those, but since I have both sets of SM manga together, I opted for the original manga to reference.
Personally, I would think that making an "objects" of the SM universe type of page, to cover broaches, pens, communicators, and special items, like Sailor Crystals versus "true Star seeds" (Odango could be covered too) would solve some of the issues at the end of the article. I'm leaving it here until that page is created. I edited it with references to give a starting point for when the page is created, but I think info cleaning and expanding the profiles is more pressing than creating new articles.
Nameology type stuff should also eventually be moved to its own article because the pun in "no" has to be covered, and a bunch of explaination on the naming schemes, and why the names were chosen as they were. So I'm leaving it, but it should be moved to that article eventually with a quick reference in this article to that article.
I also tried to delinate between the manga, anime and meta series, but she's missing the musical and Live action series stuff which I don't think I'm qualified enough to do, so if you want to do it, go ahead. I just don't have the info handy. I also think that anime episodes should be referenced (when we make that guide they can be changed into links), but I also don't have it off the top of my head and I don't know which should be cited. Only reference up for contention is the citation needed for DiC/Irwin. It should be clear-cut on that level and get an official press release that references this.
I hope this will upgrade this article a bit once all sections are put in. Once the info cleaning is done, popular culture stuff can be covered, like the Pikachu article which got the highest marks. She's iconic, so it would be safe to cover how her image is now often recycled in other anime characters without going into great depths over it, but something like the Pikachu article. Basically cover her in the real world and reactions to her. (Ami and the rest too.) But I'd like to do the filter first.
--Hitsuji Kinno 15:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Princess Serenity: Barefoot?

I put in the comment that Serenity was barefoot because I actually saw her barefoot in one of the original Japanese OPs of the Classic series. She has never worn shoes while in that form, except while ice skating. --  Denelson83  00:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Yup, that's what I remember. (Wait, Princess Serenity iceskates? o_o) --Masamage 03:01, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Indeed she does. --  Denelson83  03:02, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
When? :D --Masamage 03:05, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Episode #39-ja. It shows a picture of Princess Serenity skating. Gee....... ¬_¬ --  Denelson83  04:23, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
It was the episode where Kinzite turns the two ice skaters (Misha and Janele) into youma and Misha attacks Makoto. Tuxedo Mask was still working for the Dark Kingdom, but he helped Sailor Moon because of his conflict with Kunzite, I think. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 06:23, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
I wasn't doubting, I just wanted to see it. ^____^ Thanks! --Masamage 04:05, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I was only clarifying. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 05:42, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Materials Collection Princess Serenity there are drawings of her shoes. So she's not always barefoot, plus in the dancing scene with Endymion in the past I believe we also see shoes. So, I don't think barefoot applies here. Here, if she wears shoes once then it doesn't apply. Since ethere are specific drawings of the shoes I would say that knocks it down. And Don't forget there are many, many versions of this... PGSM, Manga, and Anime, not to mention musicals, etc. So you would have to specify version and show she never had shoes.--Hitsuji Kinno 14:57, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
What dancing scene? This in the anime or the manga? Also, prove that she had shoes by showing me pictures of that part of the Materials Collection. --  Denelson83  20:40, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Damn, Mangastyle.net is down for the week... so you'll have to wait. Because it has all the artbooks no one else seems to have bothered to post a gallery. Do you have the Materials Collection? Or could MasaMage verify what I said? I think Masamage has the book. As for the anime, I'm fairy sure that the dancing scene in the anime on the moon showed the shoes. She was being spun around by Endymion in a mask, afterall. O.o;; Unless someone wants to check the ADR...
P.S. the detail about her being barefoot or not--is it *really* that important according to the standards of Wikipedia? Because I *know* that Queen Serenity has shoes... So I'm asking why it's so dead important to this page and adding anything about knowing who Usagi/Serenity is?--Hitsuji Kinno 15:31, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
I do own it; it's also online at The Oracle. All the pictures I see of Princess Serenity obscure her feet, so that doesn't help. I'll have to agree that this is a silly detail to be concerned about, though. (PS. What's ADR stand for?) --Masamage 19:02, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
ADR has to do with sound... So if you hear clicking of heels, or if someone in the background has shoes it would kinda kill that theory.. but it's a moot point. It's easier to prove she had shoes than she didn't. I don't think it's critical. I'd vote it stay out unless it become critical in some fashion. --Hitsuji Kinno 05:46, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Actually, come to think of it, I only remember her being barefoot in a version of the opening credits. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 06:13, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
This pic proves it: http://mangastyle.net/book1/1-24.jpg (I spy some shoes, in white, and pumps and on Princess Selenity). Also in Volume 7, Act 23, Pages 86, 87, 88 Neo Queen Selenity is shown wearing pumps (no straps or anything). --;; My memory is scary... http://mangastyle.net/book1/1-35-36.jpg On that image she stated "In the first series, there were echoes of Sailor Moon's cloaked figure. I wonder if it was that surprising. I was determined to make the five of them barefoot. Speaking of which, I'm not doing the barefoot versions for the Super Famicom Sailor Moon yet." She wasn't very strong at doing feet when she first started. Which is why I know she had to draw shoes, also because she's into designer clothes and stuff and she loves accessorising. Also she drew shoes for http://mangastyle.net/materials/mat-72.jpg and http://mangastyle.net/materials/mat-73.jpg So no doubt now that Princess Serenity/Selenity has shoes? Any doubts? Anyone want to say they really are moonbeams hitting her feet at a weird trajectory giving her the illusion of shoes. =P I'll take that one too. ^.~ Despite this it still shouldn't go on the page. --Hitsuji Kinno 04:53, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Hmmmm... Perhaps it was moonbeams...  ;P -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 12:16, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Added sections

I did a bunch of research, found the references for the various songs, etc. I looked on Alex Glover, cited the sources, and then added a bunch of info on variations. Feel free to correct anything that's there. I couldn't figurre out how to get the sources to jump to a various website. So I'll make a note here. The majority of the song titles came from Alex Glover. The remaining ones came from Sailor music.net. She also does mangastyle, so I would think she's creditable enough. Plus she has the primary materials with which to do so. --Hitsuji Kinno 16:58, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Sweet. I haven't read through it yet, but I will; thanks for your work on all this. :D I don't think I understand what you mean about the sources, though. --Masamage 19:02, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
There is that superscript thing where when you click on it, it directs you to the link it's referencing. I would like to do that a bit more for these articles since the references are thin, so we can reach GA status. I read the instruction on the Wikipedia:Citation page (I'm not linking it since I'm not sure if I remember the exact name of the page right), but I didn't understand how to do that referencing part. --Hitsuji Kinno 05:43, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Silver Millennium shows how I do it.
Step 1: After the sentence you're sourcing, put <ref> followed by the source info, ie: Naoko Takeuchi. Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon manga, Act 10. If there's a web source you can follow this up with, put something like {{cite web | url=http://www.kurozuki.com/takeuchi/sailormoon/volume02.html#act10 | title=The Manga of Takeuchi Naoko | accessdate=2006-09-09}}, followed by a closing </ref>.
Step 2: Under the References section, simply put these three lines:
<div class="references-small">
<references />
</div>
Optional step 3: If you discover that you're going to use any of these sources more than once, just go back to the first time you used it and replace <ref> with <ref name="act10"> or whatever name you want. Then, every subsequent time you use it, instead of putting the whole thing in you can just use <ref name="act10"/> and it'll put a link down to that same footnote.
Hope that helps! --Masamage 18:09, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deaths

A paragraph mentioning all Usagi's deaths was recently added. I don't think that's a good idea, but I'll mention it here. Anyone object to its being removed? --Masamage 05:25, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Ack, they added it to a lot of them. --Masamage 05:27, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I'd endorse their removal. This is shojo anime, people die all the time (and then get revived in sparkly majesty, unlike shonen where they get wished back with the Dragonballs). Danny Lilithborne 05:36, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Okie doke, I'll remove that paragraph from here. --  Denelson83  06:54, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Would this be classified as an attack?

In Volume 1 (original manga, Japanese), Act 2, page 66 there is a bit that Usagi/Sailor moon does that is never repeated again (much like the Flash thing she does with her tiara). She takes out the feather pearl hairpin from one side and then uses it to deflect an enemy's attack (which happens to be a bunch of paper) then it sticks the paper to the wall. (No words used--but so are some of the other alternate attacks. Like Tuxedo Mask in the anime did something that looked an awful lot like Flower Hurricane [Sailor Jupiter's attack] without words) Then does her enterance bit. The question I have would this be classified as an attack or magical power (Sailor Kick technically wasn't magical). Anyone have the manga enough to concur or disagree? I'll be posting up the image anyhow... ^^;; Doing massive manga scans of first appearances and attacks. (Also background characters as a joke...)--Hitsuji Kinno 23:06, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if perhaps we should only list recurring attacks (and state it as such)? It seems a lot less complicated, and perhaps more encyclopedic, if we mention methods of attack and one-time moves as prose rather than in a list. --Masamage 01:26, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
That might be difficult to read, in addition there are many attacks that were one-timers, but were critical to use at the time or relate to other attacks in the anime... I'm just asking if this particular one can be classified as an attack or not... --Hitsuji Kinno 03:42, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Murble, maybe. Anyway, since that doesn't have a name...probably not... --Masamage 04:50, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Neither does Tux's rose throw (ironically, this kind of mimics it since the rose throw never showed up in the manga). He doesn't say anything either. And also traveling through time is technically a special power, not an attack. The first appearances of "Shabon Spray", "Fire Soul" also had no words in the manga. In fact "Shabon Spray" had no words at all from Mercury in the manga. So we need to clarify what is an attack and what is not. There are several attacks that are one-timers too. Jungle Amazoness Arrow, Pink Ladies Freezing Kiss, Super Dimensional Warp, Tuxedo Action (movie). And ones without words (Super Sonic waves...they just happen--also a one-timer, unless you count the double one later on, but then that's a combined attack... if it's an attack.). And then Mercury's "attacks" are not always offensive, but a lot are defensive. An attack is an aggressive action against something with a weapon (fists, etc count). So there should be some clarification here... Also Usagi's attacks are listed differently from Mercury's namely the headers for series. Either all or none should have them. Which should it be? (Just because she has more doesn't mean she should get headers and the rest shouldn't) --Hitsuji Kinno 17:51, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
You bring up some good points. I think the thing to do is that the sections are called 'Senshi Powers'--we need a better system of organization, because clearly not everything falls into the categories of "Henshin," "Anime attack," and "Manga attack." Sailor Saturn's article has a special section for non-Senshi powers, and to be honest, I like Sailor Moon's series-specific headers just 'cause she has so freakin' many.
It's clear to me that an entirely new system needs to be developed, rather than us just scrambling for ways to plug things into the (faulty) one we've already got.
Here's what I'm thinking. The section could just be called 'Powers' (which removes the need to disambiguate Hotaru's). There would still be a henshin subsection, but the other could be simply called 'Other'. This would contain a list, in order of first appearance, of all the attacks and other powers the character ever uses. Punching someone doesn't count; punching someone and yelling "Moon Punch!" or something does; using a piece of the Senshi costume also does.
I think dividing it up by story arc would be good, too, since that's mostly consistent over the various versions. Descriptions would be a little shorter than they are now, and would conclude with the English power's name(s), and then a note of when it first appears in which variations, and probably how much more it gets used.
Any thoughts? --Masamage 23:25, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Maybe this should be discussed on the project page in a bit more detail...? This seems to be deviating from the original issue and is more about formatting of the project than it is about what attacks count... I think this will be a difficult and complex issue to crack. --Hitsuji Kinno 04:27, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
I would like to make a note. Unlike the other senshi, Sailor Moon Uses each move mainly in only one arc. (Chibi-moon is pretty much the same way) Thats why hers is seperated. The Inner senshi use the same attacks until they get new forms. And the outer senshi only have one or two attacks (Saturn being the exception but she rarely appears)Lego3400: The Sage of Time 14:28, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Usagi Manga Image

I think it would be nice to have a manga image that lacks the promotional stuff on the front since it's not about the manga Tokyopop version of Usagi/Bunny/Serena (or whatever). Would it be possible to get a good image without the Tokyopop stuff on the front? Or maybe even the same image... --Hitsuji Kinno 04:11, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, a copy of that should be pretty easy to find in the appropriate artbook at Manga style. (I can grab it sometime tomorrow if no one has time tonight.) --Masamage 04:50, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
http://mangastyle.net/book5/v5-37.jpg It's that one. ˆf you want an image that may be faster to render: http://mangastyle.net/book3/3-29.jpg --Hitsuji Kinno 09:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I think the second one there looks fantastic; thanks for finding it. ^^ I've been bold and just made the switch, because this doesn't seem terribly controversial. If anyone disagrees, go ahead and revert and we'll talk about it. --Masamage 01:56, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citations tag

I think if we add a few more citations to the profile section/intro section (like the named after her own family comment) then we can take that tag off. Objections? --Hitsuji Kinno 09:57, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Princess Sailor Moon

...is not the PGSM "version" of Princess Serenity. She's what happens when the modern-day Sailor Moon and the ancient Serenity try to occupy the same body. Serenity is still distinct.

I think that section (merged over from the PGSM article, isn't it?) has wayyy too much information for this article. We should include just a little and provide a link over there. --Masamage 08:00, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, Its pulled over. Instead of writeing entierly new sections. I pull info from other articles whenever possible. It saves me time. And i can't write sections for crap (Take my inital version of the Neo-Queen Serenity for example) The items list is actully mostly info i pulled over from other articles and slightly altered. Its very time save for starting sections, but does look quite bad in the long run. I was expecting people to change it once put it in the article. (Wow i think this is the longest commment I've ever made) Lego3400: The Sage of Time 14:23, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I changed the first sentance... It still needs cleaned up though.Lego3400: The Sage of Time 03:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Soldier title: Soldier of Mystery?

Since when is she called that? Most of the Time She's Called the Soldier of Love and Justice. Lego3400: The Sage of Time 20:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

It's cited. :P Manga act 23. Maybe all Senshi titles should be included, though. Any thoughts, Hitsuji? --Masamage 08:17, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm working on it... I experienced burnout just before I got to the Outers. But I'm almost done... give me a chance to sort it a bit. --Hitsuji Kinno 04:04, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I can relate. XD Don't sweat it, it really looks terrific. --Masamage 05:00, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
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