Talk:Unisex name

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Isn't Rene spelled differently by gender? Andrea is a male name? Perhaps we should list this by which nationality uses them in a unisex manner. Rmhermen 20:20, May 20, 2004 (UTC)

Yes, in French there is Renée (f) and René (m). However, if the parents don't speak French, they might not know which form to pick for their child. Also, there is the possibility that "Renee" would be mispronounced by English speakers. In any case there are women called "Rene": just do a search on IMDb for actresses named "Rene" and you'll find plenty of examples. --MarkSweep 20:18, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Also I believe Claude is the male version of Claudia? Zoney 21:05, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] It's all good.

Some people call me Nikki. I think we do not need to specify which country, because many of these names are Western based, but not necessarily from any one specific country, although there might be a preponderance of one name within a particular country. 12.146.72.135

[edit] James?

Some secondary form of classification would be helpful. For example, with the name James. I don't see how that's unisex. If I knew it were a common girl's name in another language or culture, my instant reaction wouldn't have been to remove it (which I didn't do, but thought about for quite a while) Sahasrahla 04:00, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

I think that the person who added James as a unisex name was mistaken. The only female that I know of named James is the actress "James King" [nm0454809], who was born Jamie King, but switched to James King when she started acting because there was already an actress named Jamie King. IMDB only shows here using that name for three movies (including "Blow" and "Pearl Harbor"), before she switched back to her given name. There were, in the Middle Ages, a fair number of names that were used for both sexes, and I think that James was one of them, but in the context of this article, I don't think that James belongs on the Unisex names list. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 09:53, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The question of international and multilingual scope applies; conversely, if the article only applies to the U.S., that is all right, but it should be said. And I'd want to be shown a male Kelsey other than Kelsey Grammer, but I suppose that on the famous-exemplar principle, he may be the first of many. In fact, I may be in a position to commit a slight abuse of access to school student records. (I am rja.carnegie@excite.com)

[edit] Cor(e)y

Cory or Corey -- dominantly male names

Kori or Corrie or Cori or Corri or Korrie, etc -- usually female

Not so. I've added examples for "Cory". --MarkSweep 20:18, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

One or two examples does not a female name make. In the last 15 years, Cory for males has ranked as 69th to 323rd most popular according to the US Social Security Admin. Cory as a female name doesn't even register. Change the spelling to Kori or Cori and that name barely breaks into the 900-1000 most popular for females. The "equivilant" on this list would be "Bobby (variant spelling Bobbie is female)."

http://www.thenamemachine.com/gendercompare.cfm?Name=Cory pretty muchs shows its no more unisex than the name Brian or Michael. No one here would think to place Michael or Brian as a unisex name, but they have been used as female names far more often than Cory -- see http://www.thenamemachine.com/gendercompare.cfm?Name=Michael or http://www.thenamemachine.com/gendercompare.cfm?Name=Brian

Again, the "equivilant" on this list would be "Bobby (variant spelling Bobbie is female)." Adding "Cory (variant spelling Cori is female)" would be acceptable -- however, if done, there are quite a few names that should/will be added.

[edit] Examples?/Alternative spellings?/Definitions?

1) Should there be examples of individuals with particular names? My personal opinion is to NOT include them. If we do start including them, this list will soon become very cluttered. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 06:20, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

2) Also: Should this list include alternative spellings for names? Personally, I think that unless the alternative spelling is fairly common, they should not be included. Again, my main concern is clutter. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 06:20, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Re 1: I'm in favor of adding a single pertinent example for each name, or perhaps a single example of an exception. For instance, Marion Barry is currently listed under Marion as a notable exception. However, adding female/male pairs might be beneficial for readers with different cultural backgrounds. I agree, however, that this should not turn into a list of people by first name. --MarkSweep 06:56, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Marion used to be a slightly more common male name (look at [[John Wayne's original name for example), although its current use as a male name is probably so small that I don't think it qualifies as a unisex name and should therefore be deleted from the list.

3) Finally: Do we need the definitions of names? They are already starting to put name definitions into the Wiktionary, although that part of the project is still in its infancy. Again, my opinion is that it clutters of the Unisex name list. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 17:01, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Criteria for inclusion?

What should be the criteria for inclusion in this list of Unisex names? When I added a bunch of names to the list, I tried to keep most of the names within the following criteria:

1) A fairly popular name for at least one of the sexes (I used a top 500 list from one baby-naming book as one measure of popularity).

2) either a minimum 25% usage for the less-often named sex, or at least 15% if the percentage had dropped quite a bit in the last 25-50 years (in other words, it used to be at least 25% within recent history).

3) I fudged some by including a few names that were close to these criteria.

4) I also included a few names that currently had a fairly low percentage of females with that name, but had a fairly recently famous female with that name that was likely to help increase the number of female babies given that name.

5) I also fudged a bit by including a few names that were historically males names but are now primarily female names. I added those mostly for a little "flavor" to the list but also because they were names that might be encountered in history books attached to males.

I mention these criteria because there are some names from before I started adding to the list that don't really meet any of these criteria that I didn't delete from the list, and there have been some new additions to the list (for example Jaden, a rare male version of the fairly rare Biblical Jadon and probably very rare female name (as a variation of the fairly popular Jade?) that I couldn't find in any of my references) that also don't meet any of the criteria that I used.

Are these proper criteria for this list? And should there be some mention of the criteria in the on the main article page? [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 17:01, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'd say the main criterion should be whether a name is/was systematically used for women and men, perhaps at different points in time and/or in different cultures. It might be that Evelyn, Marion, etc. were more common as male names in the past and have gradually fallen out of usage; all the more reason to include it here, so a reader who's unaware of this can go to the present article. Insisting on temporal and cultural homogeneity is not warranted. --MarkSweep 20:46, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It is probably best to leave this as an a "List of modern unisex names" (and perhaps change the article title to match). Otherwise, I think that the list might end up too long and too confusing (unless there were lots of notes about time periods and usage). I had been thinking of adding a list at the bottom of names that have historically been unisex, but it might be better to create a separate article: List of historical unisex names. [[User:GK|gK ¿?]] 16:22, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Let's hold off for now and await further developments. There are much longer lists on Wikipedia. As long as everything is in alphabetical order, it shouldn't be confusing. If no more than one pertinent example is added for unusual cases, it shouldn't get too cluttered either. --MarkSweep 20:18, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Chris

Chris can be considered a shortening of both Christian and its English female-gender version, Christina.

The vast majority of people I know who go by Chris are named Christopher. — Ливай | ☺ 02:18, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Carey

A male name -- http://www.thenamemachine.com/gendercompare.cfm?Name=Carey Equivilant on this list would be Bobbie -- Carrie is female, Carey is male. User:C Hanna

I am not sure if I want to trust a website that does not give any information on where their data comes from. I did find Carey listed as a female name in the three name books that I checked: The Cassell Dictionary of First Names by Adrian Room (U.K.), Baby Names for the '90's by Barbara Kay Turner (U.S.), and Beyond Jennifer & Jason by Rosenkrantz & Satran (U.S.). Alternative spellings suggested: Carrie and Kerry. The '90's book says their data is 63% boys, 37% girls (for the Carey spelling, based upon the birth registration data from 12 US states). I think that this is one of those names that is in the process of going from a predominately male name to one that will eventually be a predominately female name, so it is very appropriate for this list. BlankVerse ∅ 09:59, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)


Source: Social Security Admin (US) Female use of Carey in last 14 years -- "The name Carey is not among the top 1,000 female names for years 1990-2003."

Whereas Carey (male) was in the top 1000 in 1990-1991. Popularity of the name Carey Year of birth Rank (1991 958) (1990 899) CoryBut then, the SSA is no Adrian Room!

[edit] Gender

Question about the "-- please do not change "gender" to "sex"; names typically are an expression of gender-identity, not biological sex --"

I've never changed that, but now that it's pointed out, words have a gender and people have a sex... I'm not sure that sex wouldn't be more correct here. You mention that names are typically "gender-identity" and not "biological sex", but yet, biological sex is the only thing thats known at birth -- no newborn has a "gender-identity." User:C Hanna

Gender is a multifaceted word. Words may have gender, electrical plugs may have gender, and individuals may have gender. Sex and gender are two different things and the differences can sometimes be complicated and confusing. For example, there are a fair number of individuals born who have anomalous or ambiguous genitals at birth, and there are some who are born intersexed. There are problems (see 1, 2 & 3) where someone who has XY chromosomes (normally male), but will have a typical female phenotype (appearance), and the reverse is also true—individuals who are genetically XX, but who are phenotypically male. Then there are individuals who are transgendered who will adopt a new personal name to match their adopted gender. A person's name, in general, matches their gender role, and not necessarily their genetic or anatomical sex. BlankVerse ∅ 07:26, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
you seem to misunderstand transsexuality. one changes their sex as much as medically possible, one doesn't change their gender, it would be quite hard to change a social construct all on your own. feminine males do not, generally, have female names and masculine women do not, generally, have male names. michael jackson is still michael, even though he is clearly feminine. margaret thatcher is clearly masculine, yet somehow never changed her name.

I'm reading the Gender talk page and the same discussion seems to have taken place there, but falling more in line with gender does not equal sex, which is how its used here. User:C Hanna

Perhaps I tried to bombard you with too much information, but what I was trying to tell you is that gender does not equal sex. What the anonymous editor has been trying to do is equate gender with sex. For one more wikilink, so you can understand all the various dimensions that are involved in sex (genetic, anatomical, hormonal, psychological, etc.), you should look at Sexual differentiation. Since sex is a multidimensional characteristic that usually, but does not always match in all the different dimensions, using gender is the more accurate and more appropriate word to use when referring to names.
Also: Please try to "sign" your comments. To end your comments with your User name, date and time, end with four tildes (~), like this ~~~~. BlankVerse ∅ 07:53, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Ahh, then we're likely thinking the same, that gender doesn't equal sex. Cory 02:54, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It is a little confusing because we do refer to the names as unisex names, but unisex just means "not distinguished on the basis of sex". BlankVerse ∅ 13:31, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Barrie/Barry

I know a girl named Barrie. I have never heard of any other female by that name though. So, should it be added under unisex names or not?

[edit] Lee/Leigh

I am confused by the latest edit which says that Lee is more common for females and Leigh more common for males. Where do you get your information? I would think it would be just the opposite, at least in the US. Shoaler 11:44, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mistranslation of French names?

Some of these look as if their origin was a misinterpretation of a French name when bringing it into the English language, for instance:

  • «Jean» (m) is "John", the female name is «Jeanne» (as in "Joan of Arc"). For some reason, "Jean" became misused as an English female name?
  • «Jocelyn» (m) is the male form of the female name «Jocelyne» (f), meaning "supplanter." For some reason, "Jocelyn" became misused as an English female name?

In both cases, it would appear as if the name exists in both forms but the wrong one was mistakenly copied into English. What is the etymology of these? Is it just a mistake like confusing blonds (m) with blondes (f), brunet (m) with brunette (f), fiancés (m) with fiancées (f), divorcés (m) with divorcées (f) and the like? or is there more to this? --carlb 22:56, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Errors or geographical bias of editors?

Andrea (male in Italian, female in German)
 Jean (male in French, female in Scots)
 Nicola (male in Italian, female in German)

Both of these strike me as female in English, not just in German or Scots.
These names sound a bit ambiguous to me. Perhaps in English predominantly female but not overwhelming so (unlike Mary or Elizabeth for example). However I'm pretty sure Jean is predominantly male in French. Try doing a google on jean site:fr for example. AFAIK, it's their version of John. I believe Andrea is also predominantly male in Italian. It may be Adrian but I'm not sure. I would guess Nicola could be Nicholas in Italian? Nil Einne 13:18, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Ashley (also spelt Ashlee, however the variation Ashleigh is usually female)

Ashlee strikes me as predominantly female; OTOH I only recall knowing one Ashleigh, who was male, so maybe I can't comment here....
Ashley strikes me as predominantly female but not overwhelming so (unlike Mary or Elizabeth for example) Nil Einne 13:18, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
I think of Ashley as predominantly male.... -- Smjg 16:24, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Kerry/Kerrie (variations such as Kerri or Keri are usually female)

All four spellings I've only heard of as female, so it seems odd to double out two of them as "usually female".

And a few (e.g. Michael) sound like one-off instances of rebellious cross-gender naming (if that makes sense) rather than establishedly unisex names.

-- Smjg 10:31, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Terms like "strikes me" and "sounds like" are indications of original research. Although this article is rife with original research, we should be citing sources where a given name is commonly used for both male and female. Single instances are not enough. Anyone might name their boy Sue or their girl Henry. So if you believe that "Ashleigh is usually female" or "Jean is female in Scots," provide links to outside sources that confirm these statements. Otherwise this article will just be a lot of personal opinions. –Shoaler (talk) 18:46, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yuri

I removed the part regarding lesbian sex as it means nothing of the sort in Japanese. Yuri means lily, otaku use that term to refer to lesbian sex in anime. Perhaps whoever added that should do some research before stick his/her electronic foot in his/her electronic mouth. -209.115.232.94 18:55, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kim

The name "Kim" can be rendered as Kimberly in English (as in photographer (?) Kim Anderson and singer Kim Wilde). In Suomi and many Asian languages is refered to a male. Does anyone know more? --Wendelin 19:02, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

The English-language usage of Kim for males has been influenced by the Rudyard Kipling story "Kim". I had one male friend in high school named Kim for that reason. There is also more information in the Kim disambiguation page. BlankVerse 06:55, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I've known two male Kims in my time. I see Kipling's Kim is short for Kimball, a name I haven't heard of before. I've also seen one or two sources suggesting that Kimberl(e)y is long for Kim rather than the other way round. -- Smjg 16:24, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Howard

I don't think bizarre precedent (Anne Rice) should be enough to classify a name as unisex. Are there any other women out there named Howard? 68.231.48.68

[edit] Jesse...Jessie...Jessica...made a change.

I changed the spelling of Jesse in a paragraph and in the list of unisex names. The correct spelling for the original Hebrew name is Jesse (King James version or the Bible). Jessie, Jessi, Jessica, etc...are to my knowledge later variations of the original spelling from the Bible. As such it seems to make sense that the reference to the name should be in the original spelling and not a variation. Or am I thinking incorrectly?

Thanks!

I somehow doubt that the correct spelling for the original Hebrew name involves the use of Latin characters. --DavidConrad 03:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Sources, please?

Could anyone provide proof that the following names are considered at all unisex?

  • Chandler
  • Chase
  • Colby
  • Dusty
  • Hunter
  • Kieran (aka Ciaran)
  • Kenya

I am rather inclined to remove them, as they seem largely male, or not proper names. :/ --TN | ! 04:43, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I am happpy to see this list being pared down a bit. Names should only be included if
  1. They are generally considered unisex by reputable sources (e.g. showing up in both the male and female lists of most popular names)
  2. There are notable people of both sexes with that name.
Finding one or two women named Henry does not make it a unisex name. –Shoaler (talk) 09:34, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
The list most certainly needs editing, but you are using different criteria for inclusion. The heading for the list currently reads, "List of names that can be unisex," implying names that are, or have been, used to some significant degree as unisex; that does not necessarily mean they are popular names. If the heading were changed to "List of popular unisex names" (which I don't think it should be), it would lend a whole different context. However, some consensus--rather than a unilateral decision--on particular criteria for inclusion on the list could--and probably should--be reached.
As for the particular names the OP referenced, Chandler, Colby, Hunter, and Kieran are all riding on the boys'-names-for-girls bandwagon; in particular, Chandler was used as one of the names of Phoebe's brother's triplets (a girl) on the television show Friends, as I recall, though it had come into use for females prior to that; Dusty, for one example, see Dusty Springfield; and if you are implying Kenya is masculine, it was the 615th most popular baby girls' name in 2005.[1] -Shannernanner 16:38, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Personally, I don't find a list of "names that can be unisex" at all useful, encyclopaedically. Any and every name can be unisex, if we consider unisex names to be anything used on a boy and a girl. Why bother having an article on it at all, you know? It would be far more valuable to list common unisex names; if a name included is not commonly unisex, it should probably have a citation as to why it has been included on the list - notability, as Shoaler says, would prove useful here. Including citations where these one-off examples are concerned - Chandler the girl from friends, for example - makes far more sense to me than simply including Chandler and leaving the average reader to believe that the name Chandler is commonly found on girls. As for Kenya, I was actually surprised that it was considered a unisex name because I've only ever seen it on girls. I suppose it might have been popular for both sexes in the sixties or seventies, though.--TN | ! 06:06, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I did not suggest that we should include every name that has ever been used on either sex on the list. I noted, as you can see, that I find that the current list title, while ambiguous, implies "names that are, or have been, used to some significant degree as unisex," but not necessarily popular names. Yes, notability should certainly be taken into account--I certainly took it into account when I added names to the list, and was attempting to discuss it here as well. I don't think "common unisex names" is the best way to go, as I already stated. A name doesn't have to be "common" to be notable. And, ideally, they should all have citations and/or references. I did not say that that was the only reference for Chandler; as you can see, I said it was in use otherwise, but used that reference as an example. It was the 542nd most popular name for girls born in 1992; 348th in 1993; 444th in 1994; 353rd in 1995; 485th in 1996; 566th in 1997; 588th in 1998; 561st in 1999; 711th in 2000; 924th in 2001; and 989th in 2002.[2] Kenya is a Russian nickname for the masculine name Innokentiy, as well as being given in reference to the country--in which case it would generally be considered unisex. And yes, it was in the top 1000 for both sexes in the 1970s. -Shannernanner 09:15, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I would vote to supply all this information in article, then, along with citations - would that be acceptable?--TN | ! 00:47, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Also, is there a reason NameNerds is included in the links? Though maybe this isn't the right section of the page to talk about that.--TN | ! 00:49, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree, the information should be included in the article. I was attempting to supply more information on the particular names, but as of yet had only worked on the As and Bs. I added NameNerds to the references because I used it as a reference, and that's what that section is for. -Shannernanner 04:49, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Ahh, okay, wonderful! --TN | ! 00:35, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

More names that could use citation or further explanation as to unisexness (is that even a word?):

  • Tamar
  • Barry
  • Averill
  • Cody
  • Curley
  • Colby
  • Connie (as a nickname for Conway or similar? I'm afraid I've never encountered this, though I'm sure it exists)
  • Ezra ("becoming more popular" seems purely anecdotal, as it does not yet appear on the SSA list for girls)
  • Jonah, as the feminine "Jona" is an entirely different name
  • Julian
  • Kai (where is Kai feminine?)
  • Lani and Lonnie are homophonic, but not a single unisex name, nor a similarly-rooted name with variant feminine/masculine spellings as explained in the intro.
  • Reagan is unisex, but Regan is a feminine name of no relation.
  • Spencer
  • Zoe
  • Zane

Also, I'm not sure that male names with feminine forms, like Daniel, need to be on the list, as Daniel is not a unisex name of itself. --TN | ! 01:11, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't know of any particular occurences of Tamar or Zoe on males. Barry is a masculine name with various origins, as well as being used to some extent as a feminine name, whether after the fruit (Berry) or varied spellings or as an "Irish" name. Averill is a surname which is in use for both genders (this being specifically stated on the article page). Cody was the 775th most popular name for baby girls born in 1982, 964th in 1983, 771st in 1984, 745th in 1985, 811th in 1986, 779th in 1987, 738th in 1988, 938th in 1989, 858th in 1990, 868th in 1991, and 963rd in 1992. I don't know about Curl(e)y, I would classify it mainly as a pet name. I don't know that Colby, Ezra, Spencer, or Zane are used to any significant degree on females. The spellings of Jona versus Jonah doesn't really matter if the spellings are used interchangeably. I've read before that Julian has some history of use as a feminine name in past centuries, but I cannot find a source for this. Kai is a unisex Hawaiian name, as well as having separate origins as both a masculine and feminine name. Lani and Lonny should probably simply be explained further, if both are used for both sexes; homophonic spellings are often used interchangeably. Again, just because Reagan and Regan are not etymologically related doesn't mean they are not used interchangeably, though the different origins should be pointed out. -Shannernanner 04:49, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Upon actually reading the entry re: Zoe, it actually lists Zooey. This is a masculine name used for the character in J.D. Salinger's Franny and Zooey, and after whom actress Zooey Deschanel was named. Whether one use each as a masculine and feminine name--while notable--constitutes an entry on the list should be discussed, however. -Shannernanner 04:56, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
The only notable example of Julian as female I can think of is Julian of Norwich, though since that was in the Middle Ages, I imagine the non-femininization of it was standard. I added a note about it on the article after I wrote this list. Again, this might fall under the "one-use-wonder" problem. I am inclined to say that if the one notable user is really rather notable - totally subjective, I know - it would be worth including on the list, but we shouldn't go searching for the one girl named Henry in the world, you know? As for the Jonah/Jona and Lani/Lonnie problem, if they aren't the same name, they can't really be a unisex name, can they? They are two names, applied to two different sexes, that happen to sound the same but evolved separately. I'm just not sure about that. Regardless, you're right, the difference in origin should be noted, as in the Reagan/Regan case. Unless we can find a rather famous example of Tamar on a man or Colby, Ezra, Spencer, or Zane on a woman, would it be okay to remove those until an example is found?
As for Zooey, that should probably stay, as it's Salinger... but if it's discrete from Zoe, which I believe it is, that should probably be noted as well. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the name to go any further than that. --TN | ! 05:57, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
I have heard of it being in use in medieval times, but I cannot find a source for it. Perhaps that could be used as indicative of feminine use, at least for now. If the two spellings are used on different sexes and never cross over, then they are not unisex--but if the spellings are used interchangeably, I would say in usage, they are. I'm fine with removing those you listed, yes.
I do think the book usage is notable, but I wasn't sure about one actress being named that necessarily being notable. I don't think Zoe should be on the list, as a variant or otherwise. Zooey in the book is pronounced ZOO-ee, I believe, though the actress's name is pronounced ZOE-ee. -Shannernanner 08:42, 21 September 2006 (UTC)


Here are some names I cannot find sources for:

  • Corley (can't find record of its use on either gender)
  • Curly (still)
  • Daylin, etc. (either gender)
  • Dorian (on females)
  • Elisha (that it's a valid variant of Elisheva; I am aware that it's used on both sexes)
  • Elliot (that its use on females is significant outside of Scrubs)
  • Ellis (that its use on females outside of Grey's Anatomy is significant; Margaret Millar probably ought to be omitted, as in her case it was a middle name and therefore most likely a family surname rather than considered a "forename")
  • Enda (on females)
  • Ferris (on females)
  • Gerrit (on females)
  • Hitomi (on males)
  • Howard (again, a family name used as a middle name; should be deleted IMO)
  • Ivan (on females)
  • Jacey, etc. (on males)
  • Jaya (on males)
  • Kanna (anything about it)
  • Kieran (on females; it's not unknown, but not necessarily notable)
  • Krishna (on females)
  • Kumudu (on males)
  • Lani (on males) and Lonny (on females) (Lonnie has been used on both sexes)
  • Lea (on males)
  • Len (on females) (it's a nickname, but unless it's been used notably, it should go)
  • Leo (ditto)
  • Landon (on females)
  • Makoto (on females)
  • Megumi (on males)
  • Meredith (just the assertion that "the pronunciation changes with sex")
  • Meryl (on males)
  • Nora (on males)
  • Pau (on females)
  • Reid, etc. (on females)
  • Rekka (on females)
  • Sava (that it's used to any significant degree as a nickname for Savanna)
  • Soini (on females)
  • Suri (that it's significant at all on either sex outside of Suri Cruise, or used at all on males)
  • Tatu (on females)
  • Tegan (on males) (though Teagan is unisex; perhaps what the editor meant)
  • Vanja (on males) (though Vanya is masculine; I don't know that they are used interchangeably)
  • Viji (on males)
  • Yael (on males)
  • Yazmen, etc. (on males)

Hi, I added Ellis. I've just chosen it for my daughter (we live in the UK). I originally just liked the sound of it but found out about Ellis Grey and Margaret Ellis Millar later. I concede your points on these two. I also found a 19th century US female obstetrician called Ellis Reynolds. Check her out. I agree that by your list's criteria, Ellis is probably not popular enough for inclusion yet. Spennyd1 12:00, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. -Shannernanner 21:44, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, is one example of a male Praxedes enough? -Shannernanner 10:39, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I know about as much as you on most of this list. I have heard that Enda is used on both, but have never personally met one of either, so that's anecdotal; the same would probably go for Kieran - I'd leave them both off, for now. Ellis Peters was female, but it was a pseudonym, so that doesn't count. I imagine its use on females is becoming more significant because of Grey's Anatomy, but again, have no sources on that. Millar's was almost certainly a family surname. I am no expert on Japanese names, but the rest of your list holds true as far as I know. I'd be fine removing these until we can come up with citations meeting the criteria below.
Names that should stay, IMO, are Elisha, as it is a variant of Elisheva and Alicia; Meredith; and Teagan, spelled this way. If the male Praxedes in question is Praxedes Mateo Sagasta, I think that can stay with a citation, as he was a fairly important historical figure. However, this does bring into question the historical use of female saint names on males - e.g. François-Marie Arouet. What do we think about historical use? --TN | ! 00:34, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
I wasn't planning on removing Elisha, I just cannot find a source for it being a variant of Elisheva. Neither was I planning on removing Meredith, just the particular assertion that it is "pronounced differently depending on sex." Okay, I'll leave Praxedes. Mary and Marie have often been appended to masculine names in other cultures in reference to Mary the mother of Jesus; it may be worth noting, though in proper context. Both Jean-Marie and Gianmaria (combinations of the French and Italian forms of John and Mary, respectively) are listed at Behind the Name as given names. -Shannernanner 11:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Oh, I see, sorry! Okay, let's keep the Mary/Marie thing in mind, perhaps, but work with what weve got now first?--TN | ! 17:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
No problem. :-) And yes, I agree. -Shannernanner 05:56, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal for list header

In an attempt to create parameters for inclusion on the "List of names that can be unisex," I propose something like this be added to the top: "For inclusion on this list, a name must either:

  • have originated as a unisex name (i.e., Abijah).
  • have multiple origins as both a masculine and feminine name (i.e., Alva).
  • have been used significantly at some point in the past or present as a name for both males and females (i.e., Tristan).
  • be used as a nickname for both masculine and feminine names (i.e., Chris).
  • be otherwise significant in a historical context as a unisex name (i.e., Zooey)."

Comments? Additions? -Shannernanner 08:53, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

These sound excellent to me. I can see the "used significantly" part being a source for debate, but naturally, that's what the talk page is for. Seems like a good idea to me! --TN | ! 00:21, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I know it's rather vague, but it needs to be verifiable per Wikipedia guidelines anyhow. If there are no objections, I'll go ahead and add it, and it can be modified as needed. -Shannernanner 11:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Homonyms

Here's a question: what constitutes a unisex name? The easiest definition is, a name that can be used on either sex. But wouldn't a truly unisex name be a name that can be applied on a boy or a girl in a single culture or language group? Some of the unisex names we list here are not considered unisex in their native languages; they merely sound identical to a oppositely-sexed name in another language. Aaron/Erin. Lani/Lonnie. Bela/Bela. Should we perhaps create a separate section for these names? Or would that get too complicated?--TN | ! 00:45, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I understand your question, but as I've mentioned, we're listing names which are unisex in usage, not solely in origin. The names you've brought up--names with the exact same spelling in multiple languages, such as Bela, yes, those are unisex, in usage. Aaron and Erin are used interchangeably for both sexes. Lonnie is also used for both sexes, but as I mentioned, I can't find a source for Lani's use on both sexes. We could divide the list into sections by usage vs. origin, but I think that would be too complicated, yes. I think that currently, they just all need sources and further information. -Shannernanner 11:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sam=Simon?

Does anybody know if Sam is also a short form for Simon? I've always thought it was a short form for Samuel\Samantha only. In another wikipedia article too is said that Sam is a short form also for Simon. Is it true?

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