Talk:Unicorn

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In medieval times, entrepreneurs would occasionally manufacture a unicorn by surgery on a goat kid: they would remove one horn bud and relocate the other to the centre of the forehead. (This technique continued to as recently as the 20th century, for circus displays.)

I deleted this text. It is a fantasy based on unfamiliarity with medieval surgery. Wetman 20:06, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

While I agree on deletion of a potentially suspicious passage given without a reference, I'd rather not underestimate the ancient surgery; see, e.g., Trepanation. Mikkalai 20:17, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

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The unicorn is known to be attracted to virgin girls. When he finds one wandering alone in the woods, he "lays down" with her, and "puts his head in her lap". In Old English, this is an obvious metaphor for rape. In modern times, the unicorn has been romanticised as a creature of grace and beauty, and its origin as a cautionary tale for young girls has been lost. Just because it's legendary, doesn't mean we can simply invent anything. Notice the passive voice in the first sentence. Wetman 16:36, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

(moved from User Talk:Wetman) Hey, regarding "unicorn": If I'm using bad grammar, go ahead and fix it. If you feel I need to site my sources, go ahead and let me know. Don't assume I'm making things up. In the language analysis department, I suggest you go back to your Shakespeare. Compare the unabridged to the abridged editions of Macbeth, especially the scene with the play. The particular methods of capturing the unicorn have been recounted in every story involving unicorn lore that I've ever read- try "The Unicorn in Myth and Legend".thanks, Pat User:Patterson

If the unicorn imagery in William Shakespeare and his contemporaries is the subject, Patterson should state it. There's already a relevent subsection that could be expanded. What the image meant to Shakespeare (interesting addition to genuine history of the legend) probably does not include an Old English metaphor for rape, however. Find the relevent Shakespeare quotes and use them. Draw some conclusions.Question: is the unicorn a metaphor of unbridled passion in animal nature. Is Nature tamed by the Virgin? As for rape, Shakespeare wrote a whole poem in his early days: The Rape of lucrece. That's a place to look for Shakespeare's feelings about rape. A discussion of Rüdiger Robert Beer, Unicorn: myth and reality 1977 would be useful here too. Wetman 23:00, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

Troubling aspects of the phallus/virgin relationship are undeniable in the unicorn legend (and strangely overlooked in Shepard's otherwise exhaustive "The Lore of the Unicorn"), however w/r/t presenting the unicorn as rapist i think it's worth noting that in a great deal of the virgin/unicorn legends, the virgin is a willing participant in The Hunt, in which invariably the unicorn ends up dead. Usually while still in the virgin's lap. So while i think there's obviously some phallo-dominion stuff to consider here, it's pretty far from a simple rapist/victim story. --doc ocelot 20060619

Contents 1 Invisible Pink Unicorn 2 Reem 3 Circus 4 Unicorn skeleton 5 Rainbow of unicorns 6 lascaux painting 7 Unicorn in heraldry 8 Duplicating "Sources in antiquity" 9 Unicorn in Popular Culture 10 Hebrew "unicorn" in Job 11 "Bicorn" of "Celtic Mythology" 12 rigorous application of NPOV 13 Made-up symbolism? 14 Nelneskai? 15 KIDNEY? 16 Too many cartoons? 17 Unicorn = Homosexuality??? 18 Shepard's The Lore of the Unicorn 19 Latin name? 20 Some assertions from modern fantasy 21 Biblical Tachash 22 Garbled link 23 "Made up" 24 Alicorn 25 Poison versus absinthe

[edit] Invisible Pink Unicorn

"The Invisible Pink Unicorn is an internet created fictional deity as a satire of religions." Does this belong at Satire? It doesn't belong at Pink does it? Or Religion? Can Wikipedia plug just every vacuous burlesque of everything? Wetman 23:15, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by asking where this article "belongs". It has its own page, so it doesn't need to belong to any other article in particular. Bryan 03:32, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Reem

Should discuss the "reem" of the Bible. --Daniel C. Boyer 17:52, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

OK; I've written a bit. It could stand some expansion, though. --Ben Standeven

[edit] Circus

Should discuss 1980s circus appearance of unicorn colt. --Daniel C. Boyer 17:56, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Unicorn skeleton

I removed the following passage because it makes no sense: how did Leibniz, who died in 1716, manage to study a skeleton discovered in the 1760s? More information is needed before this can be put in the article. The Singing Badger 21:12, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Allegedly, however, the skull, with a seven-foot-long horn, survived. One hundred years later [i.e. one hundred years after 1663], a similar skeleton was unearthed at Einhornloch; both skeletons were examined by Liebniz, who, after having doubted the existence of the creature, claimed to have been converted by this evidence.

[edit] Rainbow of unicorns

This was just added by an anon to the fiction section:

A group of unicorns is sometimes referred to as a "Rainbow of Unicorns."

Anyone know which fictional setting is this referring to? It should be attributed. Bryan 07:54, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It's been changed to "glory of unicorns" now, which apparently comes from a book by Bruce Coville. The funny thing is that unicorns are usually imagined as solitary creatures. —Charles P. (Mirv) 03:18, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Exactly true. I've removed the bit, partly because it's misleading. "Unicorns come in collectible sets boxed with cellophane windows. Unicoprns lose resale value when removed from the box." --Wetman 03:53, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] lascaux painting

Does anyone seriously think that this painting depicts a unicorn? It's called "the Unicorn", sure, but it clearly has two horns. —Charles P. ^(Mirv) 14:09, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

I agree with you. I think the reason why it is called the unicorn is that no one knows what kind of animal it is.--Wiglaf 19:22, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Again, if you guys had done your Art History homework, you would have known that the only reason that the Lascaux cave painting is considered to be a unicorn, is because it bears a striking resemblance to the unicorns depicted on several signant rings if the Indus Valley.

And no, these are not just poor drawings of bulls because at the same time there also exists signant rings with very carefully drawn pictures of bulls on them.

The Lascaux painting is important because it shows that other persons in other parts of the world, besides the Indus Valley, had actually seen the same animals.

Also, the "poor drawing" argument doesn't hold water here either since there is an entire cave full of carefully drawn depictions of bulls at Lascaux; each one being exact down to the last detail.

What you're proposing to say is that on this one particular occassion an inexperienced artist was allowed to mar the surface of this sacred cave without any corrections by another artist?

That does not compute Dr Smith.

Further, the Bible that you speak of in the Book of Job states: does not the unicorn roam in the plains of Uz? [pronounced: "ooz"; present day India]

Also, it is jurisprudent, if you will, among art historians – especially among those who are atheist – to accept the actuality of the the "unknown creature" phenominum at Lascaux, as opposed to continued, "bull-headed" arguments to replace what their eye sees with something more "comfortable" – whatever that could be.

WB2 06:01, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Unicorn in heraldry

AFAIK, the famous German poet Schiller had a unicorn in his coat of arms. Is anybody able to verify this?

Granted to Schiller personally, and selected by him? --Wetman 18:16, 10 May 2005 (UTC)(flaig@sanctacaris.net)

[edit] Duplicating "Sources in antiquity"

The following text adds nothing to what is already more specifically treated in "Sources in antiquity":

Although unicorns are mythical creatures, many scholars have wondered whether the myth might be distantly based on a real animal.

The latin name for unicorn (c.f. Kirchner, Athanasius -- Arca Noee) differs by only one letter from the latin name for rhinocerous, leading some to speculate that the modern unicorn was a myth spawned by stories of the rhino related by Europeans who had returned from the crusades.

Some editor seems unaware of unicorns in antiquity at all. Is there anything here to return, in better more specific condition, to the article? --Wetman 20:18, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Unicorn in Popular Culture

One very frequently (including Simpsons and an Irish Rovers song) hears references to unicorns being gone because they 'missed the Ark'.. someone could work that in, as well as sightings of that reference.

[edit] Hebrew "unicorn" in Job

Some anonymous passer-by thinks the following passage documents a domesticated unicorn contemporary with Job""!

The translators of the King James Version of the Bible (1611) employed unicorn to translate [missing Hebrew word] in Book of Job 39:9-12, providing an animal that was proverbial for its untamable nature for the unanswerable rhetorical questions:

"Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib? Canst thou bind the unicorn with band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee? Wilt thou trust him, because his strength is great? or wilt thou leave thy labour to him? Wilt thou believe him, that he will bring home thy seed, and gather it into thy barn?"

Surely these rhetorical questions are clear enough as the section stands. Or is it not? Can one of us provide the missing Hebrew word that the KJV scholars translated "unicorn"? Thanks. --Wetman 03:16, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Apparently other translations translate the word to be "wild ox."

"An animal called the re'em is mentioned in several places in the Bible, often as a metaphor representing strength." Since it is "often" used as a metaphor representing strength what is it used to represent when not representing strength? Also, how do we know for a fact that it is indeed a metaphor and not meant to be taken litteraly? Some one help me on this one please. Typhoid Orchid 22:50, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

• Ironically, it was often a featured item at Jerusalem delis: Unicorned beef. Wahkeenah 22:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

You again! Totnesmartin 23:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

You again! :) Wahkeenah 00:19, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Bicorn" of "Celtic Mythology"

Is there anything to the following text? Where does the "bicorn" appear "in Celtic Mythology"? What is the connection with the Unicorn? Wouldn't a "See also" fully cover this-- if there actually were an entry Bicorn? --Wetman 01:12, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

"There is also a creature in Celtic Mythology called bicorn, though who is dark blue or black instead of white and with two large bowed horns instead of just one. While the unicorn is benevolent, the bicorn is entirely malevolent, and attack anything it doesn't care for."

My Dear celtic theme query encyclope_: Classic Unicorn has little to do with celtic tradition.Gajus Julius Ceasar in his Bellum Gallicum feeds the fiction of a real horse category which has the "differentia specifica" of one "corn". Caesar writes that this "kind" of horse in the French forests can sleep upwards because this horse uses that "corn" as a leverage and sleeping tree bar. (Source:My Kitchen Latin reading of "De Bellum Gallicum", Caesar, G.J. )

PostSkriptum: Take note that I was forced as a very young man to read such logical blunder and today see it as what it always was.

[edit] rigorous application of NPOV

can produce real silliness sometimes.

Most people currently maintain, based in part on the claims of Danish zoologist Ole Worm, [1] that narwhal tusks provided the main source of "unicorn" horns in medieval times; however, there was concern about false horns being passed off as the real thing, and various "tests" were developed supposedly enabling one to tell the difference between the fake and authentic horns.

Most people currently maintain that what were thought to be unicorn horns are actually something else. (Most people currently maintain that Santa Claus does not deliver presents in a sleigh drawn by reindeer.) A naturalist's comparison of supposed unicorn horns with narwhal tusks is just a "claim", and of course there were tests to distinguish fake unicorn horns from the real thing! Tests, I tell you! Who writes this stuff? —Charles P. (Mirv) 09:47, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Made-up symbolism?

I removed this here: "The unicorn also served as a common symbol of indomitable pride and purity and of Jesus." Anyone who can find the unicorn used to symbolize any of these traits should quote a source and work it into the article. Indomitable pride and Jesus! --Wetman 05:57, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

absolutely to the contrary! the unicorn was widely regarded as a symbol of Jesus throughout the middle ages. Pride and Purity i think go without needing sources. Quothe Shepard quoting the Physiologus: In its simpler versions this interpretation likens the unicorn directly to Christ: its one horn is said to signify the unity of Christ and the Father; its fierceness and defiance of the hunter are to remind us that neither Principalities nor Powers not Thrones were able control the Messiah against His will; its small stature is a symbol of Christ's humility and its lieness to a kid of His association with sinfull men. The virgin is help to represent the Virgin Mary and the huntsman is the Holy Spirit acting through the Angel Gabriel. Taken as a whole, then, the story of the unicorn's capture typifies the Incarnation of Christ. - Odell Shepard, "the lore of the unicorn", 1930. i'm somewhat new to wikipedia and thus shy of editing the original article, so if someone feels like doing that, please. -- doc ocelot 20060619

[edit] Nelneskai?

I recently heard about a story of a Druidic or Celtic Unicorn, named Nelneskai, or something to similiar spelling. It said something about a young man finding and taming a unicorn, and it protecting him from demons and devils. I haven't found any information, but I have had a similiar dream to the story, and have found a fascinating Unicorn figurine after a dream, so vivid. I woke up to see a Unicorn figurine that shimmers upon looking upon it. I have only heard stories. Maybe someone could identify this for me.

Thank you.

[edit] KIDNEY?

P.T. Barnum once exhibited a unicorn skeleton that was exposed as a hoax. It turned out to be a plot to steal kidneys.

What does this mean? I'm deleting it. If someone can explain how this isn't vandalism, please re-edit and cite your sources.

[edit] Too many cartoons?

Unicorn hunt: "Another involved angering a unicorn, fleeing from it toward a tree when it charged, and diving out of the way just before the tree, causing the unicorn to strike the tree, rendering it dead, unconscious, or stuck, held by its horn in the wood." Right! Accompanied by the sound spron-n-ng no doubt. I removed this schtick here. --Wetman 21:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unicorn = Homosexuality???

I read a news item this week about some military outfit in Afghanistan that named itself after the unicorn but changed it when they "discovered" it was some sort of euphemism for gayness. I've never heard this before, and there's nothing on Wikipedia about it either. Does anyone have any idea what this supposed connection between the word "unicorn" and homosexuality is all about? JackofOz 13:31, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shepard's The Lore of the Unicorn

Very, very many of the historical issues on this discussion page are admirably cleared up by Odell Shepard's 1930 "the lore of the unicorn". He covers the prehistorical, ancient, medieval, renaissance, and modern history of the unicorn, is replete with sources, etc. The only thing i feel he's lacking as a serious treatment of the unicorn legend is any consideration at all of phallic imagery. Possibly i'm still in 7th grade at heart, but i think it demands at least a little historical attention. -- doc ocelot 20060620

[edit] Latin name?

Has the uncicorn ever had a scientific name? Like Monoceridos monoceros or something similar? Shandris^{the azylean} 06:28, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some assertions from modern fantasy

The following quirky assertions seem to be personal ones, perhaps drawn from the television (Wetman 04:40, 20 July 2006 (UTC)):

• It has often been suggested or shown that it is the females that are pure white. Males have been described as jet black with an orange mane and tail. [Representations in the visual arts since the fifteenth century show that this is just not so.]
• Although they are generally thought of as legendary, there have been various unicorn spottings in many regions of Brazil. [A unicorn spotted in Brazil would make headlines, and perhaps a Discovery Channel special. Hasn't been reported.]
• Seen as a symbol of immortality, grace, purity, love and the magic of working miracles, the unicorn is oftentimes used as a metaphor for Christ, many times playing opposite the red bull, a common representation of Satan. [Unicorn as a symbol of Christ is sourced and mentioned. Does any visual representation ever make this supposed contrast of unicorn and bull, or is this a will o' the wisp?]

[edit] Biblical Tachash

The bible reports the use of skins from the TACHASH for Tabernacle drapery. The Talmud reports that it has one horn. KJV mistakenly translates tachash as badger, however, that is a mistake from the Latin taxus. Does anyone have information regarding the possible connection between the Talmudic account of the tachash and the unicorn?

[edit] Garbled link

Can anyone make out this link, which doesn't Google or appear at Amazon.com: "Zárate, Mario E. [Unicorn Live] Lima-Perú: [2006]" Is this a vanity link from www.mariozarate.com? --Wetman 21:32, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Made up"

The following phrases were added, twice, by 72.130.226.105:

Long Ago, Native Americans strapped corn to their horses heads in attempts to fight off the Vegetable spirits and bring good crops and keep diseases and pests from their fields.

When settlers from Indonesia arrived they say this weird ritual and depicted the creatures as horses with one [uni] horn on their head. Keeping with the originality of it being corn called them Unicorns.

[made.up.]

I find this comment very hard to believe, not just because of the last phrase! I'd appreciate a source for this comment.

Chip Unicorn 17:39, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alicorn

In the text the alicorn is depicted as the unicorn's horn, however in Cantabria's mythology it is a wingded unicorn.

There is more information in http://tuscriaturas.blogia.com/2004/junio.php and http://personales.mundivia.es/llera/mitologia.htm.

Please if you can correct and add information about the alicorn.

—Claunia 09:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poison versus absinthe

An anonymous user changed what the alicorn cured from poison to absinthe. I have reverted it to the general "poison", based on sources like "http://www.izea.net/education/journal39.pdf". Of course, if someone has the original Greek written by Ctesias, that would be much better! Chip Unicorn 05:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC)