Talk:Unforgivable Curses

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Voldemort didn't use Imperius to make Harry bow, he just used a magical telekinesis to make Harry bow. Confirmed in Goblet of Fire book, Harry feels his body moved but none of the happiness that is supposed to take place under Imperius.

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[edit] Crucio by MEM

Are you sure about it been Barty Crouch Jnr. who cast the spell, been right at the start of the book I would have thought it was Mad Eye himself.Medscin 12:23, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

It was Barty Jr.. Moody was brought out of retirement to teach, but was attacked and subdued in his own home, then locked in his own trunk(The attack was mentioned in one of the first couple chapters, as Mr. Weasley had to set things right, due to the dustbins attacking an "intruder." It was labeled a false alarm by the imposter, and since Moody had a reputation for paranoia, it was easily believed).--Vercalos 20:18, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First view of the Killing Curse

The article currently states that we first see the Avada Kedavra being used on a human being in GoF when Frank Bryce is killed. However, although it's true that we first see the whole thing (incantation and effect) in GoF, we have already seen the effect in the first film (when Lily is killed), and we've heard at least part of the incantation in the second film (when Lucius Malfoy tries to use it on Harry just outside Dumbledore's office, ridiculously uncanonical and unlikely as this would be). Is there a way we can clarify this a bit more? Tobelia 02:28, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Killing Curse+Fawkes=Fire?

"Fawkes [HP4] Lord Voldemort Struck by curse aimed at Dumbledore, burst into flames, reborn again from ashes."

I don't remember Voldemort and Dumbledore even being in the same location in the entire Goblet of Fire, so how could Voldemort aim a spell at him?--Vercalos 20:20, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

That event happened in book 5, not 4. PenguinLord 01:54, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Victims of Imperius Curse

Shouldn't Barty Crouch Sr. be included as well? At the end of the book(Not at all in the movie), Barty CrouCch Jr. admitted to having Barty Crouch Sr. under the Imperius Curse, Which the article mentioned they ended up learning to throw off through repeated exposure.--Vercalos 20:25, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

If you know it to be true, and could document it with "chapter and verse" if asked, then by all means add it. T-dot 20:46, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
I was hoping someone else could. I dont actually own the book so couldn't say which chapter it was mentioned in--Vercalos 20:59, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
Minor edit. Added {{spoiler}} before the last 2 columns of the table; to warn wiki users, who may not have read [HP6] yet; or who are reading [HP6], but have not reached that part. Jacnoc (Desk) -- 23:12, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] the imperius curse: twice in the graveyard?

From the article: "The graveyard duel - twice: forced to bow before the duel, forced to answer (successfully resisted)"

Harry is able to block the imperius curse, so I do not think Voldemort used the imperious curse to make him bow. Rather, I think he used another spell that pushed his back forward. Unlike with the imperius curse, this kind of spell would cause Harry to bend forward unwillingly.

If the bow was indeed caused by an imperius curse, Harry would have been able to resist it, and it would have been more likely that Voldemort would say "imperio."

No. It wasn't an Imperious curse.. It was the cruciatus curse Voldemort used to make Harry bow.--Vercalos 05:18, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
No way it was a Cruciatus. In other cases of where Crucio was used, the victims (including Harry) collapsed to the ground screaming in agony. Harry was indeed able to block the Imperius curse - when he knew it was coming as a verbal spell. Voldemort is extraordinarily powerful, and Harry has never been that good at blocking non-verbal spells. I believe all the evidence indicates that Voldemort was using a non-verbal Imperius curse, or something else, and Harry was unable to block it:
"I said, bow," Voldemort said, while raising his wand - and Harry felt his spine curve as though a huge, invisible hand were bending him ruthlessly forward..." [HP4] (ch 34, p. 660, US ed.)
Harry was then attacked with a non-verbal Cruciatus that he failed to block - "screaming more loudly than he'd ever screamed in his life - " (ibid, p. 661). But Harry worked hard on blocking the verbal Imperius:
"Answer me! Imperio! And Harry felt, for the third time in his life, the sensation that his mind had been wiped of all thought..." (ibid, p. 661)
... and Harry was able to resist that Imperius: "I WON'T!" (ibid, p. 662)
Even then, the bowing wasn't an imperius curse, so as far as I know, the imperius curse is only used once in the graveyard sequence.--Vercalos 22:17, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Fine - then name the 3 times indicated by for the third time in his life. So far all we have found is once in the DADA Classroom, before the Graveyard incident(s). -- T-dot 22:32, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Alright. Twice in the DADA Classroom. The first time, he only partially resisted it, and was sent headlong into the desk. The second time was right after it and he managed to throw it off.--Vercalos 07:56, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ron/Hermione/Both - maybe under control?

This may just be a wild guess, but for some reason I feel that Ron and Hermione is under the control of the Imperius curse. I mean, first when Harry told Ron about what happened on the train, when Malfoy broke Harry's nose, Ron didn't seem very shocked as he should've been. And when Harry was wondering about if Malfoy maybe was one of the Death eaters, both Ron and Hermione was stating so intense that Malfoy just COULDN'T BE. Maybe something happened to Ron and Hermione while Harry was home with the Dursleys. Any theories?

I rather strongly doubt it. They do eventually come around, and fight against Draco, and regardless, this isn't the place to put theories.--Vercalos 22:15, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Or rather, the article isn't the place for it.--Vercalos 22:17, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bertha and Igor

Do we have text in the books that says they were necessarily killed by Avada Kedavra or is that speculation? JoshuaZ 03:40, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it's speculation.. At least with Karkaroff. Bertha was probably killed by the Avada Kedrava, considering at the end of GoF she appears along with everyone up to Harry's parents that was killed by that wand, and if it was a spell other than the killing curse, the apparition probably would have been different(IE the silver hand showing up instead of Wormtail). It is never explicitly stated, but it is strongly implied by this scene.--Vercalos 16:08, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Per your comment, I am going to remove Karkaroff and leave in Bertha. JoshuaZ 16:58, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Due to the name "The Killing Curse," I assumed there was only one way to kill somebody (excluding a Dementor's soul-sucking). Then again, it's not canon. --Fbv65edel (discuss | contribs) 00:08, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
The magical system is not fully self-consistent, but there are other indications that it isn't the only way. For example, in book 3, Harry points his wand at Sirius's heart and presumably has in mind a spell that will at that very close range kill Sirius. Also, Quirrel in book one is described as raising his hands to cast "a killing curse" (I think those are the words, I don't have it in front of me). Finally, in the battle in the Department of Magic, Voldemort uses multiple other spells to try to kill Dumbledore (mainly transfigurations) (in that case, it seems like Avada Kedavra is too slow to be effective as a battle spell against Dumbledore). Avada Kedavra seems to be the most convenient method of killing when one has the ability to cast it and the opponent is unable to move quickly. JoshuaZ 15:24, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Link names

It's a big pain if you want to link to any of the Unforgiveable Curses. Suppose I wanted to tell you about the Imperius Curse in another article. This would require the wiki text [[The Unforgivable Curses in the world of Harry Potter#Imperio (The Imperius Curse)|Imperius]], which, after all that, would show up simply as Imperius. Can't we shorten the section names a bit? --Fbv65edel (discuss | contribs) 00:11, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Currently "Unforgivable Curses" redirects here. One easy solution would be to swap the redirect and the article, and make the associated changes. JoshuaZ 15:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

On it, later today. --Kizor 04:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort

The article claims that Voldemort tried to use Avada Kedavra on Dumbledore in their duel. I don't recall this, and don't have the book in front of me. Can someone confirm this?JoshuaZ 04:41, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

That would be the one Fawkes intercepted. I recall a statue threw itself at another, too. --Kizor 16:55, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] True Pronunciation?

The IPA at the top of the article uses 'ae' (as in cat, right?) for all the A's in avada kedavra. Is this correct? I was under the impression that it was 'ah' sounds (as in don or wand), and it's hard to use 'ae' in unaccented syllables. I don't have the movies to check; also, is there a difference between the official pronunciation and the movie version?

ETA: Yeah, and the 'e' there is also given the 'ae' pronunciation, which is clearly erroneous. Kilyle 05:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Correction

About Lucius Malfoy's use of the killing curse in the movie version of the Chamber of Secrets, I don't think he was using that curse. I've looked at the captioning of the movie and what I got was not "Avada...", but instead "Vera...". Is there any curse or spell that sounds like that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.179.29.79 (talk • contribs) 22:29, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

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