Talk:Uncle Tom's Cabin

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Contents 1 Earlier talk 2 Plot? 3 Plot: Legree 4 Long-suffering servant 5 The inspiration for Uncle Tom 6 Influence on British foreign policy? 7 Stereotypes: Novel vs. stage plays? 8 Credited with starting a war 9 Plagiarism 10 Stereotypes 11 Read the book 12 Technical 13 Moral Values 14 Gangs of New York 15 Cruikshank

[edit] Earlier talk

Many writers have credited this novel with doing much to inflame the passions of Northerners to work for the abolition of slavery, although other writers dispute the novel's influence. How can we best make it clear that this reference to Northerners relates to those of the northern United States? --Sam

I think it's clear from the context. On another point, why is there an ISBN number? ISBNs are for specific editions; there must be hundreds of editions of UTC in the world. I'm going to remove it. --Angr/탉 19:01, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

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At the top of the article, there was a link to a non-existent page about some song:

This is an article about a novel. For one of Warrant's popular singles, see Uncle Tom's Cabin (song)

I removed it. 154.20.80.177 17:59, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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Eliza A slave (personal maid to Mrs. Shelby), she escapes to the North with her five-year old son Harry after he is sold to Mr. Haley. Her husband, George, eventually finds Eliza and Harry in Ohio, and emigrates with them to Canada, France, and Liberia.

You can't emigrate to three places. Did they emigrate to Canada, France and then Liberia? Never read the book, but if that is correct, please change the article. --Taejo 10:07, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Plot?

I think that without a small resumé of the plot the article is not informative enough. I didn't read the book and this article doesn't tell me on the place and time of the events or on the relationships between the listed characters. Could anyone add a plot section? Thanks. GhePeU 11:13, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Ask and ye shall receive. Please look it over and let me know if it is sufficient. Thanks. --Alabamaboy 12:23, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

I also added a criticism and stereotypes section to the article. Obviously this was greatly needed.--Alabamaboy 13:04, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the new sections. GhePeU 15:08, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Plot: Legree

Am I correct that Legree is a northerner who moved to the slaveholding South? -- Jmabel | Talk 07:36, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

I'm not certain. Here's [1] an interesting summary of the character. You may be correct, but if this is true it was mentioned in passing in the book and is not a major detail of his character. Can you find something on it?--Alabamaboy 12:52, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

This is correct. Here is a quote from PATRIOTIC GORE by Edmund Wilson: "Simon Legree is not a Southerner: he is a Yankee, and his harsh inhumanity as well as his morbid solitude are evidently regarded as charicteristic of his native New England." Stowe was very possibly indicating that such cruelty is not a trait od the south alone.--Saxophobia 02:15, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Long-suffering servant

"…dutiful, long-suffering servant faithful to his white master or mistress…": is he really faithful "…to his…master or mistress…"? It seems to me that he's more (1) resigned to Christian suffering and (2) rejecting of rebellion or even resistance (like George Harris's) against even as unjust an order as he finds himself living under. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:38, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The inspiration for Uncle Tom

According to this recent news story, there was a real person named Josiah Henson who was the inspiration for the Uncle Tom character [2]. Here is a link to his autobiography [3]. The Josiah Henson article mentions this detail, but shouldn't the Uncle Tom's Cabin article mention it as well? ^BlankVerse 04:48, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Absolutely should be added. And I guess the AP story can be cited if we can't get anything better, but I'd sure like either something academic or something from Stowe herself to document that he was an inspiration. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:22, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Influence on British foreign policy?

The article claims "In addition, some have claimed that the book so affected British readers that it kept Britain from joining the Civil War on the side of the Confederacy." I think this should be removed because 'some have claimed' is very vague. Is there anyone in particular who has claimed this? From this article we do not know if the book was widely read or even published in Britain. Although the article claims UTC was the second best selling book of the 19th Century, this was certainly not the case outside of the USA and I think it unlikely it would have had any impact on British public opinion. WhizzBang 10:01, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Why on earth would the British join the war anyway? They were very definitely opposed to Slavery, having abolished it in the 1830s. 15:09, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

They were opposed (in principle) to slavery, but definitely leaned toward the South diplomatically during the war. Remember, the South was the "low tariff" side, and the British were, at the time, the world's leading manufacturing country. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:48, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stereotypes: Novel vs. stage plays?

The section on stereotypes is good, but I think it should be tied closer to the Uncle Tom shows that toured the country and remained popular until about 1900. At the very least, the discussion of stereotypes should include the text from the Tom shows section. Our common conception of Topsy, for instance, comes less from the book and more from the minstrelry that quickly infected productions in the 1850s and 1860s. Though Topsy speaks with an unfortunate dialect in the novel, she's much less of a caricature and even something of a conscience. Tom was also negatively affected in stage productions. He certainly lost the Christ-like nature Stowe intended for him and became more like the "Uncle Tom" we think of today: In the novel, Tom gets beaten to death for refusing to reveal the whereabouts of two fugitive slaves. Considering that Stowe did not authorize these productions, I would argue that the worst stereotypes can not be attributed to her. --Idols of Mud 16:38, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd agree. Why don't you attempt the rewrite you suggest? - Jmabel | Talk 19:49, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Credited with starting a war

"...and is credited with both helping to start the American Civil War and helping to fuel the abolitionist cause in the United States."

Credited with helping to start the American Civil War? Doesn't this sound odd to anyone else? I don't think this is the correct way to phrase this... it's like saying "This book was instrumental in the death of nearly a million Americans" --Bri 12:41, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Lincoln seems to have credited her with being a catalyst of the war. Maybe the book was instrumental in the death of millions, so what? Srnec 19:24, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plagiarism

Parts of the plot were clearly lifted from http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/uncletom/summary.html. Compare Eva's death in each.

There are many similarities that also concern me, even though this could have came about from both plot summaries describing the same original story. However, to err on the side of caution I have rewritten the plot section. Good catch. Best, --Alabamaboy 15:00, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stereotypes

Is it correct to say that she employed stereotypes while simultaneously arguing that the stereotypes are the result of the popularity of her work? Srnec 19:23, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Read the book

READ THE BOOK BEFORE YOU READ THESE. YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING WITHOUT READING THE BOOK FIRST!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.142.168.244 (talk • contribs) 5 August 2006.

[edit] Technical

The link for Eva, from the plot section of the artciel, is being removed. It only redirected to the top of the page, taking the viewer farther from the information on the character. Feel free to write me. Cdelosr1 10:36 22 Aug (USA CENTRAL)

[edit] Moral Values

I believe that Tom did what is right because he accept the fact that he is a dark one —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.1.80.65 (talk • contribs) September 13, 2006.

[edit] Gangs of New York

I haven't seen Gangs of New York, but are the actors in the scene referred to actually in blackface (exaggerated, stereotyped: big lips googly eyes, all that)? Or are they just white people playing black people? - Jmabel | Talk 23:18, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cruikshank

Shouldn't there be some explanation of why the title page illustration shows Cruikshank as the author instead of Stowe? Did she first publish under a psuedonym and was it Cruikshank? Or Smith? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.135.227.163 (talk • contribs) October 26, 2006.

Stowe always received full credit; Cruikshank drew the illustrations for the British edition. Rjensen 21:18, 26 October 2006 (UTC)